the WNBA team wouldn't be able to get a shot off against a decently athletic hs team, have you watched the offense of women's bball?? any kind of defensive intensity and you would shut them down offensively

they wouldn't get their wide open layups(which aren't even guaranteed makes) under the basket, their constant turnovers would lead to EASY fast break pts on the other end, the shooting mechanics would get them stuffed half the time by an athletic defender, speed speed speed on both ends would run them off the court

[This message has been edited by EliteZags (edited 6/8/2009 3:29p).]

HH2, very true, but the talent was there, just needed some shaping. Talent is not there on the really small D-1 schools that really should be playing D-2.

Across most sports that aren't the NFL, the disparity between the bottom of 1 league and the top of the next is very small.

Look at the soccer is across the world with relegation. Even in baseball here, the top AAA team would be a force against the Pirates. Payroll is damn near the same anyway.

Hockey is certainly the same way, with the top AHL team capable of playing the worst NHL team to a very close series.

NFL is in it's own world. Part of it is that the pro and college game are very different, and there really isn't a minor league system.

Grand point being, even under Melvin, we would be beating weaker division schools, usually. Bad coaching of course can kill a program, all other things equaled. As can lack of player commitment.

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I guess the point I'm making (that most of you are missing) is that footwork, basketball IQ, court awareness, outside shooting ability, and dribbling skills are better in a team of professionally coached, cream-of-the-crop female players who eat, drink and breath basketball, than they are in a group of high school boys with little discipline that are coached by a health teacher.

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At a GOOD (top 25%) 5A school
Footwork: you can give it to the gals if you like based on experience (which I'm not convinced is true. I think the guys are better because of superior agility), but speed will pretty much neutralize any advantage. In fact I think the guys would be at an advantage.

Shooting ability: guys and it's not close (more height and better hops = tons of uncontested shots on one end and tons of blocks on the other)

Dribbling: guys. You can only dribble as fast as you can run and the guys can run faster.

Passing: guys

Court awareness & bball iq: you can give these to the women but it's not like the men are completely inept. Despite what you might think, a good 5A school is not going to be coached by a health teacher. 5A is not intramurals. The women might be better because of more experience, but the men would have good enough schemes and play well enough together to run plays that would take advantage of their superior height and athleticism.

Frankly Mass, the only way the women win is if you're playing pick up ball which is what you seem to think a good 5A team is.

[This message has been edited by atfarmer (edited 4/10/2014 3:10a).]

The absolute WORST D-1 men's team would obliterate the very best women's team in ways previously not thought possible. We're talking 150-30 or something rediculous like that

Agree to disagree.

I really think there is a lot of insecurity on this thread. And very little reality.

I played against plenty of former high school "all-stars" at the rec center, and I played against a few A&M women's team members at the rec center. The ladies almost always held their own, and none of them were anywhere near good enough to play in the WNBA.

I suppose this is all just going to boil down to perspective until somebody has the great idea to make such a game a reality. Here's hoping some of you pretenders are on the court when it happens.

why exactly is it "insecurity" on the part of those who disagree with you?

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and I played against a few A&M women's team members at the rec center. The ladies almost always held their own, and none of them were anywhere near good enough to play in the WNBA.

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And that's almost ALWAYS because the guys let up against them. Jesus, do you really think those guys were going all out? Seriously?

I've done it myself. Blocked a couple of shots on a female A&M player back in the day and got ribbed for it, so I & every other guy laid off of them.

Also, someone else posted about high school volleyball teams in Cali against "pro" women's teams. It's the same thing. There are 6-8, 6-9, 6-10 boys on those teams (see guys like Chase Budinger who will be in the NBA). You can't discount the physical superiority.

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why exactly is it "insecurity" on the part of those who disagree with you?

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Just a guess. I doubt most guys like to admit that a girl, any girl, could beat them in basketball.

I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it. There are plenty of mental midgets in this forum (not pointing the finger directly at anyone on this thread).

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You can't discount the physical superiority.

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I never did. I've already said that, all other things being equal, greater athleticism can win games for you. However, it is my contention that all other things are NOT equal, and that professional WNBA players have plenty of advantages over 16, 17 and 18-year old boys.

And that is making an ASSUMPTION that all 5A HS boys are extremely athletic, which is a terrible assumption to begin with.

[This message has been edited by MassAggie97 (edited 6/8/2009 4:06p).]

It sounds like Mass got destroyed by one of A&M's chick players and is now trying to cope by convincing himself that they're actually pretty good.

You're way off Mass. I played with several Aggie women players on several occasions, and I had to go easy on them. And I am nothing special. 6 feet tall, not particularly strong. You are way overestimating how good girls are.

It just sounds like you're not thinking it through. How are the girls going to get quality shots when they're playing against so much more length and athleticism than they've ever played against? How will they rebound? How will they slow down the guys in transition? How will they avoid foul trouble?

I just skipped to the bottom:

One of my best friends use to play ball with/against Sheryl Swoopes at Tech. She is about 4 years older and was in her WNBA career coming back and messing around.

He was a solid 3A point guard (second team all district), about 6'1. He said he could hold his own pretty well. Defensively he would limit her to outside shots and when she drove she would dish out, not able to take it all the way. She could still score on him but he could score on her just as well.

I think the women would win 6 or 7 of 10. If the shots are not falling, they won't have anything inside. HS boys would do well defensivly but I don't think the same advantage would be there on the offensive end due to zone and just pure knowledge of the game and how to get position.

I would watch.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this entire thread is physicality. Alot of what has been mentioned refers to the finesse aspects of the game. Basketball is not pure finesse.

In men's basketball, the area under the basket is a gauntlet. There is no way the women would be able to handle the constant physical punishment from a much bigger man. It may be sexist but it's also true. They would get manhandled.

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And that is making an ASSUMPTION that all 5A HS boys are extremely athletic, which is a terrible assumption to begin with.

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No, but you can make the assumption that the top 7-8 guys on a good 5A high school basketball team will almost all be bigger, faster, quicker & stronger than their counterpart from the WNBA team.

They will probably have an average of 4-5 inches at least, 50 lbs, 10 inches of vert & .5 to a full second quicker up and down the court.

[This message has been edited by Syd_X_Barrett (edited 6/8/2009 4:12p).]

My main argument is about the WNBA. How many players in that league are from A&M? What is it, like two? Ever?

If you are talking about A&M women versus HS boys 5A, I still think the women would win but I won't argue about that because I think it could be a tossup.

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And that is making an ASSUMPTION that all 5A HS boys are extremely athletic, which is a terrible assumption to begin with.

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No it's not. Do you know how athletics work at a 5A high school? It isn't charity. It's not a "whoever wants to gets to play" situation. A ton of high schools in the Houston have 4k+ students. The coaches actually can be pretty picky about who they play

Just keep digging

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And that is making an ASSUMPTION that all 5A HS boys are extremely athletic, which is a terrible assumption to begin with.

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Your average 5A boy is more athletic than almost all WNBA players. Strengh, speed, jumping ability, quickness... the guy would win.

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It sounds like Mass got destroyed by one of A&M's chick players and is now trying to cope by convincing himself that they're actually pretty good.

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My main argument is about the WNBA. How many players in that league are from A&M? What is it, like two? Ever?

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The WNBA isn't like the NBA in that it gets the best talent available. Most of the players would make more money teaching at an elementary school.

Not exactly the best way to get the cream

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If you are talking about A&M women versus HS boys 5A, I still think the women would win but I won't argue about that because I think it could be a tossup.

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What did the women's team average in turnovers, about 30 a game? 1/2 of those are dribbling off their feet, fumbling the ball, etc.

They do that against a good 5A boys team & that's 20-30 easy points they give up. So, where are they going to make that difference up?

Any decent mens team would beat the very best womens team. Men are just flat out too fast and strong. Sorry, it is just a fact.

Also, the whole dunking thing is the key. For anyone to remark that "dunking is not the only thing to basketball" that is NOT the point. Tbat means that EVERY rebound will go to the boys...every shot of the boys will be UNCONTESTED whereas any shot the women would take could get slapped into the bathroom.

I had a coworker from Tech one time tell me the women's team that won the national title could have beated the men's team. I informed him you could spot the women 40 points and only then they would have a chance if you turned the shot clock off. I doubt the women could even inbounds the ball unless the men just decided "what the hell, I want to salp some shots".

Sports Illustrated ran an article about this. Tennessee found a collection of men to scrimmage agasinst the women. The rules were the men could NOT drive the lane nor CRASH the boards. The men still won. And this was the best women's team in college basteball against an intramuaral men's team.

this argument is beyond dumb, womens bball is a COMPLETELY different sport(yes I do consider it a sport), but to be competitive in real basketball (and yes 5A is competitive) you either have to have blazing speed and quickness or overpowering strength and size, and athleticism to go with each. women have neither of those and success in women's basketball in no way translates to success in real basketball

I go back to the turnover thing again & Mass thinking our women's team could beat a good 5A boys team.

30 or TO's a game. That's at least 15 or so fastbreak opportunities where you have a slower, smaller person trying to defend 3 on 1's, 3 on 2's, whatever. That's almost a sure 2X easy buckets for the guys. Then flip that situation and say a woman has a fast break. How many blown layups do you see in women's college bball & the WNBA? It happens 1/3 of the time without ANYONE guarding them. So, now throw in a more athletic person that can ACTUALLY get to the rim to defend the weak arse layup & what happens???

So, right there, they have a huge hole to overcome. Then throw in the decided rebounding advantage & inability to do much of anything in the paint & the women would basically have to shoot 70% from 3 to have a chance. Then make them play with a real ball & see how "dead on" they are. Let the guys play with the little ball & driving to the rim/dribbling will become REAL easy.

It's common sense.

And yes, I agree, guys like Mass are either REALLY shatty & unathletic, or they have some other agenda.

[This message has been edited by Syd_X_Barrett (edited 6/8/2009 11:51p).]

Wow, some of the responses from people that are trying to get laid are mind numbing. EVERY player in the NBA can dunk a basketball. Let me go further, I could right now break both of John Stockton's legs and he could still dunk a basketball as long as some 7'-0", 250 pound freak of nature was not standing in his way.

Guys, give it a break. If you can't get laid then telling a chick that an WNBA team could beat even an evergae 5A team will not help. I will go a step further. I could sign for a WNBA team right now at the age of 38 and still make the all-star team. Want to know why? Because there is not a women playing in the WNBA that could push me out of the paint.

Anyone that wants to argue otherwise either got the short end of the stick at birth or is stupid or is trying to get laid.

I have to comment here.

I played a lot of ball, coached a lot of ball. I coached girls basketball and boys HS and JR high ball. I respect and appreciate good basketball no matter the sex.

I was a decent basketball player, but nothing note worthy wasn't even my main sport. I was a good athlete though, was 6'1 and around 190 pds and in good condition.

When I was at A&m we had an elite womens basketball player, all conference. She played pick up games here and there with a bunch of the guys, mostly football guys. I ended up guarding her several times. The only time she did anything was when I just took it easy or helped off her. I pretty much could score at will off her especially on the block. She was not strong enough, tall enough or quick enough to stop me. (When I got the ball)

She was a great player, fundamentally sound, but she could not match me. I was bigger, taller, faster, could out jump her. What I liked about her is that she wanted to play with us because she felt that playing up would ultimately help her game. She never had an attitude that said "I am woman here me roar!"

I would of been a dominant Womens basketball player then and today (in my prime)! I could pretty much hold my own in pickup games but I didn't even start on my 5A HS team.

When I student taught I had the priviledge of observing Larry Brown (Texas HS coaching legend) at Bryan high. Bryan won two back to back state 5A championships. I can assure you that 5A team would of mopped the court with any WNBA team today! I scrimmaged regularly against them and I had to be on my game to hold my pride against them and I was 22 and in my prime.

To say that 'they are guys" and therefore fundamentally unsound is just plain stupid stereotyping and basically calls every male coach a dunce!

A WNBA team would have a heck of time getting the ball up the court against the withering full court press that those teams ran with 12 gifted, fast athletes. Even if they did get by the defender guys like James Flowers was fast enough to easily get back in defensive position.

I some how think that Rod Bernstein (a future NFL 1st round pick) at his HS level would be the most dominant post presence the WNBA has ever seen! He was 6'3" and 220 pds
of sheer athletism and smart. They would have no answer for him on the block.

Come on folks think about it. Some of these 5A athletes are NBA first round draft picks coming out of HS!! One Lebron James and 4 stiffs like me would run any WNBA team off the floor!

IF that is too much think about a Sloan and Roland at Seagoville as Seniors! I am sorry their superior speed, athletism and strength would wreak havoc.

Some of these HS athletes are close to full grown. Shoot how would the WNBA stop a Deandre Jordan for crying out loud! Good 5A teams ARE GOOD!

Finally when I was a young coach my 8th grade boys regularly scrimmaged our HS girls. Our girls were very good district and regional champs. They were anchored by a 6'1" shot put 3A state champ. We were nothing special still here is how it went.

If we just stayed in a half court set they would usually win. They played zone and like most 8th grade teams our shooting was inconsistent. However when we played full court our transition game was better and we could win and normally did.

Bottom line the athleticism, speed, size and overall strength differential would be too great for any WNBA team to over come. I do believe the WNBA may be able to beat a bunch of dudes like me playing pick up ball. However if those dudes were experienced players it would be tough.

The girls would definitely beat a bunch of HS pickup guys. But a GOOD, well coached 5A boys team, NO WAY!

However there is no shame in that IMHO. It's apples and oranges. The physical difference in upper level male and female athletes is quite large. And a top notch 5A basketball team is going to have some upper level male talent, they aren't just a bunch of stiffs you know.

You have to be one of the best 15 basketball players amongst 200 just to get there!
To be a 5A player at any HS is not an easy thing.


[This message has been edited by OPAG (edited 6/8/2009 8:59p).]

but... but... but... MassAggie beat some random dudes on the northside dorm outdoor courts.. and he got embarrassed by some women players! if such a basketball phenom couldn't play with them no one can!

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Some of these HS athletes are close to full grown. Shoot how would the WNBA stop a Deandre Jordan for crying out loud! Good 5A teams ARE GOOD!

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I don't know... you tell me. How did the entirety of the Big 12 manage it? Jordan was bigger, faster and stronger than most of his opponents in college, yet he underperformed. Why do you suppose that is?

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Also funny that one of the most (if not THE most) unathletic teams in the NBA (the Spurs) over the past 10 years has won 4 titles.

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Let's not get ahead of ourselves here because I think you must have been watching a different Spurs team than I was. Tony Parker was on of and still is one of the fastest and quickest players in the league, he could beat virtually anyone off the dribble. Manu Ginobili had great endurance and was in near constant movement, he's also quite faster. Bowen may not have been the best offensive player, but he was incredibly quick and was nearly impossible to beat off the dribble. This is not even including Tim Duncan who was a lot more athletic than people give him credit, he may not have had the athleticism that Olajuwon or Robinson had but he had top quality footwork and was faster and quicker than virtually every other big man in the league.

To say that the Spurs were unathletic is patently false.

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I don't know... you tell me. How did the entirety of the Big 12 manage it? Jordan was bigger, faster and stronger than most of his opponents in college, yet he underperformed. Why do you suppose that is?

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Because they had the athleticism, height, and speed that it took to stop him. Something a WNBA would not possess. Next question!

Wow Mass, now you're kinda starting to embarrass yourself.

^
| you're really using the words 'kinda' and 'starting' loosely here

I love how Mass' argument gets destroyed and **** on by several dozen points and he picks one to attack and does it in the most pitifully retarded way possible

You are now comparing a WNBA team to Big 12 teams!?!?!. Every single Big 12 team would beat any WNBA team mercilessly if they so decided!

There is no way they could keep D Jordan off the boards or keeping from him from blocking or effecting about any shot in the paint.

The guy would be grabbing offensive rebounds and jamming them home. They would have to hope for foul trouble.

It's the rebounding and transition game that would absolutely smoke them. I mean think about it. Those guards would be running out of there like rabbits as soon as a shot went up knowing that two 6'6 athletic guys are going to sweep the boards and it's off to the races.

I have seen Griner play, and Griner would be considered a skinny slow post in 5A ball, she would not get one D1 offer, not one.

One time I filled in and scrimmaged against my 8th graders and I was taking it pretty easy to teach. They started getting cocky and mouthing of. I didn't say, a thing, stopped the action, smiled, picked all my second team guys handed the "studs" the ball and said "Bring it"!

I shouldn't have to tell you the results. THEY WERE HUMBLED. They got nothing in the paint I could do what ever I wanted when ever I wanted.

The athletic difference between me and them is probably less then it is between a Deandre Jordan and a top WNBA player. Bigger, faster, taller, stronger, is, with a basically sound fundamental knowledge of the game, going to beat the dodo out of smaller, slower, shorter, weaker, really smart and fundamentally advanced teams. It's like a really good Junior high team going up against a moderately decent intramural team at A&M. NO CONTEST!

NO WAY THAT A WNBA TEAM COMES CLOSE TO BEATING THOSE OLD BRYAN TEAMS NO WAY!


Come on Mass, you know better then this.

[This message has been edited by OPAG (edited 6/9/2009 10:19p).]

Mass has been tossed around and beaten up by too many women in his life to think straight

[This message has been edited by mhc06 (edited 6/9/2009 10:18p).]