http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-02-17/nba-all-star-game-white-men-cant-root/?cid=hp:mainpromo7

read and discuss.

Author's an idiot. What about Dirk? I think he's considered a superstar.


EDIT: I'm the idiot. I skimmed it quickly as I'm at work. My bad.

[This message has been edited by helgs (edited 2/18/2011 2:41p).]

Larry Bird said the same thing about 10 years ago...and I happen to agree.

You may be the fool for not reading the article carefully.

He is talking about white American fans not being able to watch white American basketball players.

Dirk Nowitzky is not a white American. He is a white German.

The author says that white Americans made up about 24% of the NBA in 80-81, and now make up about 10%.

Who is the best white American NBA player? Well, the author points out, the only one that is an all-star is Kevin Love.

Larry Bird to Kevin Love, the author might argue, is the regression that has occurred in the NBA in terms of white American participation.

black guys are better at basketball, plain and simple. the nba is losing popularity for reasons that have nothing to do with race. even if white guys could magically figure out how black guys jump 13 feet in the air, it wouldn't help the nba.

that whole article is a waste of life.

I'm going to need more evidence of the NBA's decreasing popularity than attendance being slightly down

why do you think the NBA is losing popularity?

I think the early drafting has been a huge problem.

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Author's an idiot. What about Dirk? I think he's considered a superstar.

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Author's an idiot. What about Dirk? I think he's considered a superstar.

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American born.

Almost all the great white players in the NBA the past 10 years have all been foreigners.

I dont think it makes anyone racist....but people have a natural tendency to want to root for people that look like them.

I dont think the average white person from middle america necessarily connects with a long haired Canadian liberal like Steve Nash, or foreigners like Manu, Dirk, Peja.

The fact that there have been very few Larry Bird, Kevin Mchale, Mark Price, John Stockton, Jerry West, Chris Mullins type of players (conservative looking, American born white guys who happened to be excellent ball players) is a big reason the NBA viewership has declined since the 1980's.

i think the nba is losing popularity because every year, it is the same, boring ass story lines. lakers/celtics this, lebron that. it's old hat.

Do you guys think that a kind-of reverse racism has developed institutionally in basketball, where non-black players are automatically thought to not be as good?

I think Jeremy Lin is an interesting example. Terribly good high school ball player in California, but couldn't get a single good scholarship offer. Barely got an Ivy League invite to play at Harvard. Excelled in the Ivy League, but didn't get drafted in the NBA. Played in the NBA summer leagues, and has now made a roster (Golden State) and gets a small amount of PT as a rookie.

Star high school player, current NBA player. Asian-American. Couldn't get a single decent Div 1A offer. Did race play a part?

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black guys are better at basketball, plain and simple. the nba is losing popularity for reasons that have nothing to do with race. even if white guys could magically figure out how black guys jump 13 feet in the air, it wouldn't help the nba.

that whole article is a waste of life.

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Im going to kinda disagree.

If you are saying black guys are better at basketball....then that is hard to argue with.


But if you are arguing that white guys cant play....then I would have to vehemently disagree.

Look at all the fantastic white players that I listed above and that used to play in the 1970's and 1980's.

and then look at all the Europeans that are currently stars in the NBA.



The reason they are not as many Kevin Loves as theire was 25 years ago is that too many American born white kids are steered away from basketball because they dont think they are as good.

This doesnt happen in Europe.

There was an article last year on Chase Budinger and the "obstacles" he overcame from his own upper middle class San Diego community for thinking he could be an elite basketball player with the chance to make it in the NBA.

[This message has been edited by Kellso (edited 2/18/2011 10:50a).]

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Im going to kinda disagree.

If you are saying black guys are better at basketball....then that is hard to argue with.

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i'm saying black guys are faster, stronger, more agile, more athletic, etc., which makes them better at basketball. plain and simple. the game is about speed, jumping, and superior athletic ability, and black guys dominate those categories.

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But if you are arguing that white guys cant play....then I would have to vehemently disagree.

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i think white guys tend to be the smarter athletes. again, i'm not saying black people are an inferior intellectual race, i'm saying white people generally have better upbringings and better educations. why do you think there are next to no black quarterbacks? because it takes a very smart person to play qb and white people tend to be smarter.

now, can white guys play? of course they can. look at the white euros you mentioned. with as many white people on this earth, statistically there are bound to be a few who can keep up on the court.

but when people say white kids just don't try when they are young? puh-lease. they don't try because black kids are the better athletes from day one.

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Do you guys think that a kind-of reverse racism has developed institutionally in basketball, where non-black players are automatically thought to not be as good?

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of course there is. the only problem is americans don't want to hear or say it.

go to your local gym or park that has a basketball court and try to join a pick up game with black guys.

if that isn't reverse racism, i don't know what is.

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of course there is. the only problem is americans don't want to hear or say it.

go to your local gym or park that has a basketball court and try to join a pick up game with black guys.

if that isn't reverse racism, i don't know what is.

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I disagree.

The gym i go to is loaded with black guys playing pick up basketball and if you can play....they dont care what color your skin is.

That being said....the Asians tend to play Friday and Saturday evenings because none of the black players are there and they can have the court to themselves.

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because it takes a very smart person to play qb and white people tend to be smarter.

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*exits thread*

ninja, did you even read what i said about why i think white athletes are smarter, or did you just single out one sentence, take it out of context, and try to label me a racist?

Yeah Obi Wan, saying blacks aren't smart enough to be QBs is racist.

at what point did i say that black people aren't smart enough to play quarterback? i said white people are afforded better educations almost everywhere, thus they tend to be smarter, thus they play the quarterback position better.

how is it racist to point out that black people don't get as good of educations? is this not a statistical fact?

just because i say white people are doing something better than black people doesn't mean black people can't do said activity. i'm saying white people are doing it better.

and thank you all for proving my point.

americans don't want to talk about black and white disparities because the truth is too much to handle, so the second someone points out simple facts, i.e. minorities getting ****ty education, everyone screams racist without hearing what is being said.

First off, intelligence is not the same thing as education.

and MORE TO THE POINT, YOU GENIUS, sports IQ is not the same thing as classroom education.

ya, they don't correlate NOT ONE BIT

I think white americans don't watch soccer because they hate brown people. also, black americans don't watch curling because they hate white people. further, brown americans don't watch basketball because they hate blacks. finally, whites, blacks, and browns don't watch ping pong because we hate yellow people.

blake griffin is kinda white. just sayin

There's a whole lot of fail in this thread.

1) Blacks (especially those with roots from W.Africa) tend to have a higher concentration of "fast-twitch" muscles. These type of muscles will give you an advantage in sprinting and jumping - movements that obviously help you in basketball.

2) Whites tend to score higher than Blacks on IQ tests. However, this is an artifact of numerous factors including nutrition, child-rearing, education, and testing. In other words, no ethnic group is smarter than the other. OWG was not being racist in his comments.

3) Now back to the original topic of this thread - is the decline in NBA popularity due to the changing player demographics? That's possible. I don't know the research that well; maybe someone can chime in. One thing to keep in mind is that the demographics of the US is changing (smaller White %), so that plays counter to the author's argument.

I don't think the "white American" thing is the issue, I think that is a generalization. What is an issue is people have trouble relating to a lot of NBA players because they look like thugs. Far too many NBA players have poor communication skills. They have tats all over the place that makes them look like a thug and an NBA uniform shows far more of them than other sports, especially because there are more closeups in the NBA than in most sports as well. NBA players tend to not even act in the slightest way as if they are normal people. They have entourages and live in ridiculous homes. They just don't tend to adapt into communities very well and they don't make good sponsors for business products. Nike? Sure. Gatorade? Absolutely. Mastercard and Sony? Not so much. Many of the best players in the NBA either never went to college or "went" for a year or two before going NBA. The game itself is far more dependent on raw athletic talent than other sports too. There isn't a lot of complex strategy going on. Mainly it is who has the best set of athletes that can beat another set of athletes. In the NFL virtually all the athletes went to college for at least 3 years. In MLB virtually all the athletes worked their way up through the minors for several years, same for hockey. In the NBA most of those players went straight from HS or maybe a year or so of school to being an NBA star.

Do all sports have some of these problems? Sure. The NBA just has more of them. There are obviously exceptions to all of the rules as well. The key is the overall problem and even worse perception are those issues listed above.

The problem with the author is he makes the leap to connect this to race. It's not like Chris Anderson is the solution to the NBA problems and Tim Duncan is the problem. Plenty of white people would much rather watch Ray Allen then Jason Williams. Race is not the issue, the actions of the individuals are. It's uneducated thugs making millions of dollars that can't connect with the folks attending games that is the issue, not the color of their skin. The reason people like Peyton Manning more than Lebron isn't because he is white it is because he is an articulate and humble person that people can relate to, Lebron acts like a child. I remember reading articles on baseball about Barry Bonds, people didn't hate him because he was black they hated him because he was a jerk.

Another issue I think that hurts the NBA that has nothing to do with this is officiating. There is no sport as dependent on officiating as the NBA. There is no sport that openly seems to have "special rules for stars" and completely ignores certain rules like traveling like the NBA does. That really turns a lot of people off because the NBA comes across as more predetermined and biased than other sports. To an extent this can't be corrected but I really thought Stern made a huge mistake the way he handled the officiating/gambling scandal a few years ago. He should have fired anyone who gambles as an official and gone zero tolerance. NBA officials are far too much a part of the game and their egos are enormous and often they come across as unprofessional. How Stern allowed Joey Crawford to come back to the game after the incident with Duncan and his attitude about it was astounding to me.

In short, the problem isn't the fact that there are lots of black people in the NBA that creates a stereotype. The problem is there are lots of people of all colors in the NBA that are a stereotype. It's just a cop out to blame it on race.

good response.

Article by Aldridge, on NBA All-Star weekend being "Black Thanksgiving."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/02/18/nba.allstar.black.thanksgiving/index.html?hpt=C1

What turns me off from the NBA (or any sport) are the punks that think they're bigger than the game. With that said, I do enjoy watching them fail.

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There isn't a lot of complex strategy going on

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ummm.....you might wanna rethink that.

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I don't think the "white American" thing is the issue, I think that is a generalization. What is an issue is people have trouble relating to a lot of NBA players because they look like thugs. Far too many NBA players have poor communication skills. They have tats all over the place that makes them look like a thug and an NBA uniform shows far more of them than other sports, especially because there are more closeups in the NBA than in most sports as well. NBA players tend to not even act in the slightest way as if they are normal people. They have entourages and live in ridiculous homes. They just don't tend to adapt into communities very well and they don't make good sponsors for business products. Nike? Sure. Gatorade? Absolutely. Mastercard and Sony? Not so much. Many of the best players in the NBA either never went to college or "went" for a year or two before going NBA. The game itself is far more dependent on raw athletic talent than other sports too. There isn't a lot of complex strategy going on. Mainly it is who has the best set of athletes that can beat another set of athletes. In the NFL virtually all the athletes went to college for at least 3 years. In MLB virtually all the athletes worked their way up through the minors for several years, same for hockey. In the NBA most of those players went straight from HS or maybe a year or so of school to being an NBA star.

Do all sports have some of these problems? Sure. The NBA just has more of them. There are obviously exceptions to all of the rules as well. The key is the overall problem and even worse perception are those issues listed above.

The problem with the author is he makes the leap to connect this to race. It's not like Chris Anderson is the solution to the NBA problems and Tim Duncan is the problem. Plenty of white people would much rather watch Ray Allen then Jason Williams. Race is not the issue, the actions of the individuals are. It's uneducated thugs making millions of dollars that can't connect with the folks attending games that is the issue, not the color of their skin. The reason people like Peyton Manning more than Lebron isn't because he is white it is because he is an articulate and humble person that people can relate to, Lebron acts like a child. I remember reading articles on baseball about Barry Bonds, people didn't hate him because he was black they hated him because he was a jerk.

Another issue I think that hurts the NBA that has nothing to do with this is officiating. There is no sport as dependent on officiating as the NBA. There is no sport that openly seems to have "special rules for stars" and completely ignores certain rules like traveling like the NBA does. That really turns a lot of people off because the NBA comes across as more predetermined and biased than other sports. To an extent this can't be corrected but I really thought Stern made a huge mistake the way he handled the officiating/gambling scandal a few years ago. He should have fired anyone who gambles as an official and gone zero tolerance. NBA officials are far too much a part of the game and their egos are enormous and often they come across as unprofessional. How Stern allowed Joey Crawford to come back to the game after the incident with Duncan and his attitude about it was astounding to me.

In short, the problem isn't the fact that there are lots of black people in the NBA that creates a stereotype. The problem is there are lots of people of all colors in the NBA that are a stereotype. It's just a cop out to blame it on race.

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No offense man...but your entire post is exactly what the author is talking about.

Did you read the article?

Im not saying you are prejudiced or that some of your points arent valid......

but you start off saying race has nothing to do with it and then go on to recite Bizzingers talking points on why white middle America is not as big of a fan of the NBA as it was 30 years ago.

Im not even really disagreeing with your points....and i flat out agree with you on the officiating.

But middle America does have a hard time relating to players with all the tats....but I think thats died down over the past few years after David Stern implemented the Dress code.

He implemented the dress code precisely to address the image problem the NBA had.

I dont want you to think Im disagreeing with you because most of your points are valid.

But the NBA is a weird animal.

The NBA is not very big in conservative, flyover states. Texas is a very big exception to that rule....and its precisely because all three Texas teams have very strong followings from their fans.

I dont think white, middle America has that big a problem with the Allen Iverson's of the world, but for the NBA to reconnect with that fan.....it would help to have more American Born elite White Players like Kevin Love, Bill Walton, John Stockton...etc

[This message has been edited by Kellso (edited 2/18/2011 4:13p).]

Who are the "bad boy" NBA players on the Mavs that fans can't relate to?

If blacks are just as smart why are there so many poor countries in Africa?

Aren't NBA numbers actually UP this year?

I know this doesn't follow the race arguement but I'm of the beleive that the NBA started to slide in popularity when the moved all their televisions almost exclusively to cable. Less people can watch the games so its less popular overall, its not rocket science.

The race arguement is interesting but there's way too much counter arguements. Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods took turns being the most popular athlete in every race group. White guys like watching great players, period. Race may be a factor but I think in this day and age it's miniscule.

The problem is fairly simple. The NBA game itself just isn't as good as it once was. It has nothing to do with athleticism. Just the 10 guys on the court don't provide the same entertainment as they used to.

And the thug factor can not be ignored. Most people wouldn't want the typical NBA player in their home.

Kellso,

You and the author have the same issue and you didn't really read my post. In order to accept racism as the premise, you have to accept that somehow being black makes you a thug. I don't accept that. Being black has nothing to do with it, or at the most very little. Being black doesn't make you poorly educated. it doesn't make you incapable of acting like an intelligent person. It doesn't make you need to have an entourage and live a ridiculously excessive lifestyle that people can't relate to and often times leaves that person bankrupt in spite of how much money they make. You can be white or any other race and do all of those things as I cited. You can also be black and be none of those things which I also cited.

I refuse to accept that black people or black culture somehow makes you a thug. I wish you and the author could do the same. It isn't race, it is the actions of individuals that happen to be disproportionately from a race. It is deeply insulting that you would state that a person's race denotes that behavior or excuses that behavior. You should really think about why you think the way you do and why, I know I have. Never judge a person by skin color, period.

Professional sports is a tired industry that costs way too much for what it gives back...across the board. Try and go to a professional venue with kids or family and it costs a fortune to pay for tickets and all the "stuff". The TV plays it more as entertainment versus sport. WHo wants all that crap. Give me the AGS any day!