Kellso I think when 93 talks about NBA stars acting like thugs or being hard to relate to or liking peyton more than LeBron, he's talking about the tattoos (Stoudamire has a "Black Jesus" tat. I mean WTF?) & BS postgame interviews in which athletes act like they're gods. He's talking about Latrell Sprewell rejecting a 15 million dollar contract because he "has a family to feed" or LeBron having a one hour, televised special so that he can give his hometown the bird.

Honestly, it has nothing to do with the color of their skin and everything to do with their behavior.

Let's look at San Antonio. In a city full of Whites and Mexicans, we've got (or have had over the years) A black naval academy grad, a black D&D fan (Duncan), a black Frenchie, a White Argentinian, a black guy who wanted to become a teacher; maybe is now (Bowen), Sean Elliot who played hard and minded his own business, etc.

Anyway, they're all hugely popular because the fans can get behind them. Sure they're bigger and taller than us mere mortals, not to mention richer than god, but they come across as decent people and I'd feel that way and root for them no matter what race they are.

As an aside, i'll embarrassibly admit that i'm a bonner fan boi because of his race. If he was anything other than a pasty ginger, I wouldn't be nearly as big a fan

I don't watch the NBA anymore because the on court product is horrible, the officiating is horrible, and unlike during the glory years of the late 80s to mid 90s, there are only a few superstars and they for the most part all play on the same teams.

I'm still not getting this whole popularity is down thing.

Do the people who make this claim not have the ability to google search "NBA televsion ratings 2010-2011". If they did they would find out what they are saying is just factually incorrect. So much for the white man having the superior work ethic.

I don't care what color the players are. I don't watch the NBA because the regular season has no point.

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Kellso I think when 93 talks about NBA stars acting like thugs or being hard to relate to or liking peyton more than LeBron, he's talking about the tattoos (Stoudamire has a "Black Jesus" tat. I mean WTF?) & BS postgame interviews in which athletes act like they're gods. He's talking about Latrell Sprewell rejecting a 15 million dollar contract because he "has a family to feed" or LeBron having a one hour, televised special so that he can give his hometown the bird.

Honestly, it has nothing to do with the color of their skin and everything to do with their behavior.

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Seriously.....Get the F**** out of here.

and these same sort of players arent prevalent in the NFL?

How many thuggish players have played for the Mavericks the past 10 years? I can only think of two.


What happens in the NFL is that there are plenty of white stars to counter balance the athletes that make you and aggie93 feel uncomfortable.

The NBA doesnt really have that. Almost all the elite white players (Gasol, Dirk, Ginobli, Nash) claim a foreign country.

Nash is the most "American" and I dont think he flies all that well in middle America being a proud, outspoken liberal....despite being an incredible basketball player.

and again....Im gonna keep repeating it. Its fricking hilarious that aggie93 (and you) say that the author is wrong and that race has nothing to do with it.....and then repeat almost verbatim the things that you dont like about the NBA.

and again Im not callin any of you racist or saying that you hate people that are different then yourself.

Just dont sit here and say race has nothing to do with it, and then list scary looking, rich black people as the biggest reason you dislike the NBA.

[This message has been edited by Kellso (edited 3/1/2011 11:04a).]

The NFL is aided greatly in my opinion simply from having their players wear helmets, sleeves on their jerseys, and longer pants. It masks a lot of things (like neck tattoos, etc.) The NFL is far more faceless than the NBA and the really does a lot in diverting attention from any player's 'thuggish' appearance.

I think the first problem with the NBA is that the regular season is just meaningless and unwatchable. Nothing matters until the postseason. And the situation is getting worse by the creation of the "super teams" in Miami, Boston, New York, LA, and perhaps now Chicago.

There is still a definite "thug" element to the league. The only other TV shows were I see that many tatoos are prison documentaries. And that's a shame because there are some good guys in the league. I did see where a sports reporter on either ESPN or CNNSI referred to the all-star weekend as "Black Thanksgiving." Had not seen that term used before.

For a variety of reasons already mentioned the NFL doesn't have the same problems as the NBA.

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Just dont sit here and say race has nothing to do with it, and then list scary looking, rich black people as the biggest reason you dislike the NBA.

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and Im gonna repeat this point again.

I might be in the minority on this thread as a white guy that loves the NBA.

Why do I love the NBA?

Because the skill level and athleticism of the players is phenomenal.

The players are the best athletes in the world.

It helps that my team (The Mavericks) have been a playoff team for the past 11 years.

When I watch Nash, Dirk, Chris Paul, Duncan, Kobe, Lebron, Paul Peirce, Ray Allen.....etc Im watching guys that are truly fantastic at what they do.

I dont think anything is more exciting then the NBA playoffs.

The playoff games in particular are so exciting because every game means so much.

This topic is interesting to me because its something ive studied for a while.

About 6 years ago I started a thread asking why people disliked the NBA.
I started it after watching Houston beat Dallas in the Game 2 of the NBA playoffs. In a fantastic back and forth game where Tracy McGrady hit a game winning jumper.

I really didnt understand why. Honest to God truth.

I had just watched a hugely entertaining and very intense series between Houston and Dallas and I just couldnt understand how people wouldn't find this entertaining.

I made the caveat that I understood if someone didnt like the NBA because they just were not a fan of the game.....but I was amazed at how many people would go on and on about how much they hated the NBA....and then in the next sentence how much they loved college basketball.

I cant stand college basketball because its such an inferior product to the NBA.

The players are nowhere as talented as they are in the NBA and I hate the 35 second shot clock.

There were some answers that dealt with officiating. Some answers talked about one on one play.
and Some talked about the real ugly period of the NBA during the 1990's when the Knicks and Miami used to play all these horrible, ugly games.

but as more and more of the answer came in....they started looking like aggie93's reasons:

"I dont like the NBA because the players are too thugish"

"I dont like the NBA because the players make too much money and act like rappers"

" I dont like the NBA because too many of the players look like tatooed freaks"

"I like college basketball a lot more because they play fundamental basketball and dont rely as much on pure athleticism"


Finally one guy had the guts to say it....which was
"I still like college basketball because there are more players that look like me. Every great White player that goes to the NBA from college becomes at best a role player."

and there is nothing really wrong with that. Nothing at all.

But it became evident that one of the NBA's marketability problems (that the NFL doesnt have) was that there were hardly any elite White American players to market in a league that is 85% black.

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Nor is there any way to change the reality since black players are better, stronger, faster, and have more basketball intelligence than any of their white counterparts.

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Yea I don't agree. I think it really comes down to that whitey's such as myself (middle class) have different goals from childhood. We are taught to go to school to become cube monkeys or middle management monkeys or an executive stooge.

Do I wish more white people in the NBA? Not really I just want it to be entertaining. Which brings me to my problem with the NBA. Too much politics in the NBA. Its all about making money and not the final product and thats across the board. NBA turns the other cheek when heavily sponsored teams and players are in scandals. And then there is officiating there is nothing I can say that hasn't been said about this but my main issue is that officials should never have to "control" a game....Oh and there is no such thing as "a good no call" a foul is a foul is a foul is a foul etc..

Also being white is awesome. I mean look at how many there are of us on this podium.



For more proof I will defer to Louis C K(NSFW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG4f9zR5yzY

Bravo Kellso.

Bravo.

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The players are the best athletes in the world.

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I think that is debatable..... Take a look a the combine for the NFL and the NBA. The NBA guys don't jump as high, run as fast, etc. They are generally taller but football rules in athletic explosions. Watch MB play basketball in his summer league charity events, or TO. Those guys are top notch athletes.... Tim Tebow out jumps 95%+ of NBA guys (including Vince Carter) as an NFL backup QB.

What the NBA has is coordination/grace, but I would argue that they are less athletic than football players in general.

See my previous post on this thread.

[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 3/2/2011 1:11p).]

NBA Combine info all years:
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=6


NFL 2011:
http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2011/nfl-combine-results.cfm?sort=vertjump&pos=LB

Apples to apples (no step vertical):
This years NFL combine had 9-10 guys with 40"+ verticals (a TE had 42.5" ). The NBA has never had ONE

Vince carter's was 36" (Max was 43" )

[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 3/2/2011 1:12p).]

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I think that is debatable..... Take a look a the combine for the NFL and the NBA. The NBA guys don't jump as high, run as fast, etc. They are generally taller but football rules in athletic explosions. Watch MB play basketball in his summer league charity events, or TO. Those guys are top notch athletes.... Tim Tebow out jumps 95%+ of NBA guys (including Vince Carter) as an NFL backup QB.

What the NBA has is coordination/grace, but I would argue that they are less athletic than football players in general.

See my previous post on this thread.

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NBA players play 3 or 4 times a week from anywhere from 6 to 8 months a year depending on how they do in the playoffs.

NFL players play once a week for 4 to 5 months.

Have you ever seen NBA refs up close?

Those dudes are in phenomenal shape....and they are in great shape because a basketball game is a constant aerobic activity.

Contrast that to an NFL game.

I remember reading somewhere that if take all the timeouts, stoppage of play and everything else that goes on in a game that there is only about 11 minutes of actual playing going on.

You are also comparing wide receivers, tailbacks, defensive backs (who happen to be the best athletes) to NBA players.

Sure that is debatable....but Nate Newton and most NFL lineman could not play in the NBA because they dont have the cardio to be able to constantly run up and down the court.

Very few overweight NBA players...especially compared to the NFL and MLB.

NBA players are the best athletes in the world because they play a game where they are in constant aerobic activity......and they do this multiple times a week for 6 to 8 months out of the year.

You are mixing conditioning with athletic ability. Which is is?
Conditioning (on a base level)is easily gained/lost. Athleticism takes genetics and a lot of effort.

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You are also comparing wide receivers, tailbacks, defensive backs (who happen to be the best athletes) to NBA players.

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Look at the data, many/most of linemen out jump the nba posts. One example I gave was a tight end who jumped 42.5" (no step vertical)...... 6.5" higher than Vince Carter's best.

DeAndre Jordan had a 26" vertical...... would have put him in the bottom 1/3rd for OL in the 2011 draft.

The white QB outjumped the greatest dunker in NBA history.

Again, if you add skill and conditioning to the definition of athletic ability, the NBA players may win, but raw athletic ability is not what the NBA offers, at least not in a great supply than the NFL.

Comparing NFL players who the vast majority if not all are under 6'5" or so to a bunch of NBA players whom probably more than half are over 6'6" is absurd. Guys who are taller have longer arms on the bench press and longer legs to jump off of. Of course they aren't going to lift as much or jump as high.

Both no doubt have incredible athletes and I won't get into which groups is better, but 2 things:

1. Comparing lifting and jumping numbers as your end all proof is extremely flawed

2. Coordination IS a major part of athleticism.

I acknowledged the coordination argument; however, I was not comparing strength...I was comparing jumping which most people think is supreme in the NBA and the "black athlete".

Look at the numbers, most NFL OL are equal to or over 6'5". Also, most NBA players (50+%) are under 6'6" (per combine no shoes). Please look at the data posted. The Houston rockets starting Center is what... 6'7"?

The fact that a 6'7", 300+lbs OL (who by the way has longer arms than most NBA players...look at teh data) out jumps 6'10" 240lb NBA big man by 4 and 5" is amazing. You tell me who is more athletic; the guy who can lift 300+lbs in the air 30+" or the guy who can only get 240lbs in the air 26"?

The NBA athlete is not as "athletic" as this writer gives them credit for.

[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 3/3/2011 10:39a).]

[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 3/3/2011 2:53p).]