I love going to Kyle Field and watching a game so please tell me exactly where you are getting hooked up with tickets that make it cheaper to go to than an NFL game because I'll be all over it.

As far as the NBA goes, I think the problem has to do with the HD factor like every other major professional sport other than the NFL. Being that there are so many home games in the other sports and most of them fall during the week, there's just no big event factor for games anymore especially since TV picture is so great. I almost think the production value of a TV game improving so much has been a major detriment to live game attendance in every other professional sport.

Television might keep some fans from attending the games. But it conflicts with sliding television ratings.

I don't watch the NBA anymore b/c the product sucks. Half the players have horrible fundamentals. Also the majority hit the lottery with a big contract and become lazy, worthless players. Has nothing to do with race and everything to do with the product.

Bissinger is way off on his race assertions. Americans love the NFL b/c it puts a great product on the field.

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Television might keep some fans from attending the games. But it conflicts with sliding television ratings

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Again, like the NHL and MLB, I think so much of the 'sliding TV ratings' have to do with the fact that you can see like 5 nationally televised games during the week (not even counting Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. You couldn't do that even 5 years ago. Combine that, with the affordability of things like League Pass and livestreams of games, and, naturally, single game ratings will be down quite a bit.

The big factor is the internet. Let's say the Blazers and Rockets are playing in Portland. You no longer have to stay up until midnight or 1 Houston time to know the result or gameflow. The speed you can get it now, you'll get a good idea of what happened by the time you sit down for your morning coffee in front of your computer at home (notice it is no longer the newspaper).

The NFL no doubt has a great product, but it is also popular because watching your football teams once a week is an event... it matters more than watching 5 baseball games or 4 basketball games a week.

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Kellso,

You and the author have the same issue and you didn't really read my post. In order to accept racism as the premise, you have to accept that somehow being black makes you a thug. I don't accept that. Being black has nothing to do with it, or at the most very little. Being black doesn't make you poorly educated. it doesn't make you incapable of acting like an intelligent person. It doesn't make you need to have an entourage and live a ridiculously excessive lifestyle that people can't relate to and often times leaves that person bankrupt in spite of how much money they make. You can be white or any other race and do all of those things as I cited. You can also be black and be none of those things which I also cited.

I refuse to accept that black people or black culture somehow makes you a thug. I wish you and the author could do the same. It isn't race, it is the actions of individuals that happen to be disproportionately from a race. It is deeply insulting that you would state that a person's race denotes that behavior or excuses that behavior. You should really think about why you think the way you do and why, I know I have. Never judge a person by skin color, period

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What the Hell??????????????

Seriously....what the hell are you talking about?

Did you mistype? Is your post directed at me?

Are you on drugs?

Please explain to me where I stated any of the things you accuse me of.

All I said is that your first sentence you say race has nothing to do with it....and then you recite almost word by word Bizzingers talking points about why the NBA has lost popularity among white viewers.

I actually thought you were doing that on purpose to prove a point.

[This message has been edited by Kellso (edited 2/21/2011 8:57a).]

I was watching the dunk contest and it was a joke. What's the point of Kenny smith and Chris Weber? They were running around like a cheaparse rap video, the Crenshaw Choir. I couldn't believe how one sided that event has become

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If blacks are just as smart why are there so many poor countries in Africa?

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This got no response? Really? Maybe I'm the only one stupid enough to feed the troll, but I'm surprised someone else didn't jump on this.

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I was watching the dunk contest and it was a joke. What's the point of Kenny smith and Chris Weber? They were running around like a cheaparse rap video, the Crenshaw Choir. I couldn't believe how one sided that event has become

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In fairness....the guy who won the dunk contest and the most fan support is 1/2 white.

Here is his mother

Kellso,

You accused me of not reading the article and seemed to softly accuse me of associating race with how individuals behave. My point is that race has nothing to do with it, actions however do. I brought up Chris Anderson and Jason Williams as guys that are white and from Middle America that certainly aren't helping the image of the NBA. I also brought up Duncan and Ray Allen. I could come up with other examples.

It's not color, it's behavior. Political correctness and racism are different topics. I probably get a little worked up about this because I hate it when people assume anything about anyone because of their skin color, I think minorities that excuse bad behavior for skin color are actually worse for race relations than people that are racist based on ignorance. I'm probably a little oversensitive on the topic but I truly do think too much time is spent on looking at how whites need to accept minorities but so little time is spent thinking about why many minorities aren't accepted. I truly think in today's society people see through race very quickly to see the person, it just frustrates me to no end to see people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions but rather blame their problems on racism.

On a deeper level though, it's about those athletes that have no respect for the people and companies that actually pay their bills. The NBA itself is guilty of this as they have promoted stars over teams and highlights over team play. They take the easy buck which is to go after the publicity that some of the thugs can create but then are surprised when they scare off the viewers and corporate sponsors. College basketball seems to be filling that void for more and more people. At least at that level you seem to have some level of control and the coaches are clearly driving the sport over the players.

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You accused me of not reading the article and seemed to softly accuse me of associating race with how individuals behave.

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WTF????????????????????????????????

Please show me an example where I "softly accused" you of anything?

Are you high?

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Kellso,

You accused me of not reading the article and seemed to softly accuse me of associating race with how individuals behave. My point is that race has nothing to do with it, actions however do. I brought up Chris Anderson and Jason Williams as guys that are white and from Middle America that certainly aren't helping the image of the NBA. I also brought up Duncan and Ray Allen. I could come up with other examples.

It's not color, it's behavior. Political correctness and racism are different topics. I probably get a little worked up about this because I hate it when people assume anything about anyone because of their skin color, I think minorities that excuse bad behavior for skin color are actually worse for race relations than people that are racist based on ignorance. I'm probably a little oversensitive on the topic but I truly do think too much time is spent on looking at how whites need to accept minorities but so little time is spent thinking about why many minorities aren't accepted. I truly think in today's society people see through race very quickly to see the person, it just frustrates me to no end to see people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions but rather blame their problems on racism.

On a deeper level though, it's about those athletes that have no respect for the people and companies that actually pay their bills. The NBA itself is guilty of this as they have promoted stars over teams and highlights over team play. They take the easy buck which is to go after the publicity that some of the thugs can create but then are surprised when they scare off the viewers and corporate sponsors. College basketball seems to be filling that void for more and more people. At least at that level you seem to have some level of control and the coaches are clearly driving the sport over the players.

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and really aggie93.....you're starting to piss me off because you are projecting assumptions about my opinions.

I made it very clear that I didnt really disagree with your first post.

I made it very, very, very clear that I dont think that racism has anything to do with why the NBA is not as popular among whites as it was back in the day.

What I said very f***ing clearly was that your initial post is a paradox in that you say race has nothing to do with it.....and then state all these stereotypes about why you dislike the NBA.

The stereotypes you mention are almost word by word what Bizzinger states in the article.....on why the NBA has lost popularity among middle american white people.

Race baiting can be a profitable career.

CenTex speaks the truth. Both Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson both studied biomedical science as an undergrad degree.

come on people, the NBA has lost the white crowd because of what I mentioned earlier. It's BET but on the basketball court. It has zero to do with racism and everything to do with fact. That dunk contest made me sick. It's almost as if they are discouraging white participation. Hell, even that little kid they brought out was chinese. I was at a resteraunt with about 75/100 people and everyone was commenting on the above....and the crowd was VERY mixed.

Question: why can a higher percentage of black people like or dislike certain things because it's just part of their culture, but if a higher percentage of white people like or dislike things it is racism? Are black people racists because less of them are golf, tennis, or NASCAR fans? If the NBA has trouble marketing to a group of people because they don't connect to that group of people, namely white folks, that's not about racism at all.

Great article, though. Hack intertron journalism at its finest.

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come on people, the NBA has lost the white crowd because of what I mentioned earlier. It's BET but on the basketball court. It has zero to do with racism and everything to do with fact.

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Someone needs to figure out the difference between opinion and fact.

Fact:
Something stated at least twice on the internet.

I love everything and everyone in this thread

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it takes a very smart person to play qb and white people tend to be smarter

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SUMMARY VERSION: Many great QB had very low Wonderlict scores. Conversely, many "meh" QBs have had very high scores. I question how much smartness really has to do with the QB position.

This definitely is not the first time these words have been said/written.

I'm always big on evidence and fact-based approaches,so the first thing I did was look for wonderlict scores of QBs to see if that could tell us something. I assume its the best we have to go off of.

I agree with the original person above in that I don't attribute a higher intelligence level to any given race. Furthermore, and sorry if I paraphrase/elaborate, but the poster goes on to cite "smartness"(defined as how much knowledge and education have been accumulated over the years). This second part is the piece I'm looking for clues about.

Interesting link that can probably be viewed a number of ways (I wish there was a palm to forehead emoticon I could use pre-emptively).

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/wonderlic-scores-of-2010-nfl-starting-quarterbacks-and-339905.html

Look at some of the notable scores and my first reaction was that the coorelation of QB performance with Wonderlict score is weak.

Dan Marino had a surprising 15!
Brett Favre - 22.
At the high end you have Fitzpatrick and Aaron Rodgers.

Black players definitely skewed toward the low end, but without a meaningful coorelation between performance and Wonderlict score, it is worth pausing to consider that maybe smartness might not have as much to do with the QB position as we tend to attribute to it.




[This message has been edited by texmet (edited 2/21/2011 7:56p).]

[This message has been edited by texmet (edited 2/21/2011 7:59p).]

it's funny that blake griffin and barack obama are 2 of the first black people that i've ever seen white people try to claim.

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If blacks are just as smart why are there so many poor countries in Africa?

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wow

wow


wow

they're just as white as they are black!

I think it's funny that either are considered exclusively "black" in the first place. Both are just as white as they are black.

it's more on how you identify yourself. Not many mixed people (white & [insert race here]) that i know consider themselves white. Actually, i don't know any. I remember listening to a speaker on this in october.

Nonetheless, if you choose to identify yourself as black and you are half-black, there isnt anything wrong with that, but i never heard anyone say anything about it until Obama was running.

I agree, and I have no problem with Obama or Griffin identifying themselves as black. If somebody wants to embrace their African-American heritage, I have no problem with it.

My issue is with the media who labels anyone who "looks" black as 100% black. Then again, I also think racial "categories" are dumb in the first place. People shoudl just be people in the eyes of the world. What culture or history you embrace is a personal matter IMO.

you and i completely agree on that

I'm not so sure the NBA is seeing less popularity. The ratings from the last two playoffs show an upward trend, not downward.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2011/2/21/2005834/2011-nba-all-star-game-ratings-dunk-contest

http://www.sportsmediawatch.net/2011/01/ratings-game-tnt-nba-ratings-still-up.html

So while the game may be less popular with conservative whites than it was 20 years ago, there are fewer of them around so in the end it doesnt really matter.

Yankees-- I do believe white people drafted Colin Powell back in '04, if I remember correctly, they also got Condoleezza Rice as a part of the deal.

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Nor is there any way to change the reality since black players are better, stronger, faster, and have more basketball intelligence than any of their white counterparts.

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I am pretty sure the whole article is a joke. If you say there is a clear difference between two races, then that legitimizes preferring one to another, which makes racism a mute point.

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Yankees-- I do believe white people drafted Colin Powell back in '04, if I remember correctly, they also got Condoleezza Rice as a part of the deal.

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I think we were given Bill Cosby if we agreed to take Wayne Brady as well.

[This message has been edited by Quantum ace (edited 2/22/2011 3:31a).]

Didn't the blacks get Tiger in return for packaging the entire Wu-Tang Clan to the asians?

Kellso,

You still can't see my point. The actions of athletes of all races may fit a stereotype but that's a side effect. Separate the stereotype from the race. Just because there are more black than white athletes that act like thugs in the NBA (I suppose, I don't know how you could ever measure it) doesn't make it about racism.

I just reject the idea that race has anything to do with it as no race is predispositioned to act like a thug. That includes taking a stereotype of behavior and then taking the leap to associate it with a race when it is just behavior. That is the difference between my opinion and the author and the point you aren't grasping.

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Yankees-- I do believe white people drafted Colin Powell back in '04, if I remember correctly, they also got Condoleezza Rice as a part of the deal.

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i totally forgot about that draft day trade. Ok, carry on. And keep wayne brady

Where all the white women at?

I did not read the comments above but I did read the article:

I took exception to this on some level:

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Nor is there any way to change the reality since black players are better, stronger, faster, and have more basketball intelligence than any of their white counterparts.

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Perception is reality and this is probably true; however, I am a white man (little native American) and had a 39" 2 step vertical when I was 20. I am a hair over 6'3" barefoot and was about 185lbs (still do). I could out jump any black player I ever played against except one (Robert Johnson who was the 16th leading scorer in the nation for Rice in 98.); however, I was an engineering major and that was my focus and I only played for fun after highschool. It was not my life, had it been, I know physically, I could have competed...

I was also a little late on development so I was not that athletic in HS.


My son asked me about two years ago when he was 5 why the dark skinned players were better. If that is all you see, than it is true; however, I think my son sees he has other options and many black kids don't. Many don't have a dad at home that is an engineer or a dad at all so their image of an adult black man is often a pro athlete. My son has a different image and will probably set his sights somewhere else (though he is leading his basketball league in scoring). It is somewhat of a self fulfilling prophecy.



[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 3/2/2011 12:58p).]

good fisking of the original article

summary...buzz bissinger is an idiot (if you didn't already know)