at this point- who is it.

you can justify stats, media acceptance, etc, etc. but the MVP vote should become pretty clear within the next 2-3 weeks.

mine starts with an R. and it's not royal rooter.

probably go with derrick rose

According to Minnesota fans last night at the game, it is Kevin Love.

But I would go with Rose.

After Sunday's game against Miami, hard to vote against Derrick Rose.

Gary Neal

Take team performance out of the equation just for a moment - would you consider Kevin Love a legit MVP candidate??

I'd give Rose the MVP, but I don't think Love's performance is that far off.
21pts, 16boards. 52 straight double-doubles.

It's going to be Rose. Unless the Bulls fall to a distant 3rd-4th seed and Lebron carries the Heat to the #1 seed.

This is like the Nash years again- Rose wins for media hype and flashy style, not stats or dominant winning %. Lebron has the better stats on an elite team, and Dirk will likely lead his team to a better overall record with a worse supporting cast.

But you have to remember, Rose did this without Noah for most of the year, and without Boozer for part of the year. And I wouldn't go so far as saying that Rose has a better supporting cast than Dirk. Dirk plays on one of the deepest teams, if not the deepest in the league.

[This message has been edited by ItalAggie (edited 3/8/2011 4:51p).]

Paul Pierce

leads the league in plus/minus by a wide margin

It was only a matter of time.

No, KLove should not be considered for the MVP, and LaMarcus Aldridge and Zach Randolph were more deserving for the last All-Star spot.

T'Wolves last 5 years winning percentages - where is the Kevin Love impact?

.390, .268, (Love arrives), .293, .183, .231 (current)

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But you have to remember, Rose did this without Noah for most of the year, and without Boozer for part of the year. And I wouldn't go so far as saying that Rose has a better supporting cast than Dirk. Dirk plays on one of the deepest teams, if not the deepest in the league.

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Boozer and Noah are better than anyone Dirk has to play with, and Dirk was without Butler for half the year. The Mavs are deep because their 2nd best player is about as good as their 9th best player. The Bulls top 6 after Rose is much better than the Mavs top 6 after Dirk and they have a better coach when it comes to defense

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This is like the Nash years again- Rose wins for media hype and flashy style, not stats or dominant winning %. Lebron has the better stats on an elite team, and Dirk will likely lead his team to a better overall record with a worse supporting cast.

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What style? Chicago is a grind-it-out defense-first team. None of their wins are pretty. SMH @ thinking Chicago is deeper than Dallas (like one poster already mentioned, likely the deepest team in the league). They start Keith Bogans, for crying out loud. Next.

It'll come from one of these 8 teams: Boston, Miami, Chicago, Orlando, LA, Dallas, San Antonio, or OKC. Knowing that, I'd order those teams most important players to the MVP list like so for this season:

Rose
Howard
Dirk
Lebron
Kobe
Durant
Rondo
Ginobili

And the Mavs start Peja Stojakovic. Which mavs player would you replace on the Bulls?

Chandler over Noah? No
Marion over Deng? No
Kidd over Rose? No
Haywood over Gibson? No
Terry over Korver/Brewer? Maybe, but not in the playoffs
Dirk over Boozer? Debateable Serious question. I guarantee you there are people that would take Boozer's low post game over Dirk's game. How many times do I have to hear that Dirk will never win because he won't play the low post.

Rose win for style because of the way he attacks the rim and makes amazing offensive plays better than anyone else this year.

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And the Mavs start Peja Stojakovic. Which mavs player would you replace on the Bulls?

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Bogans is hitting under 40% of his shots and is not making 4 points per game, despite starting 62 games. He may be the worst starter in the league.

I think Dirk is more deserving: better overall record than the Bulls and the Mavs were worthless without him (2-7?). As IF said, Rose has a better supporting cast.

Rose will win though. Young, exciting player, and last time Dirk was MVP he was the mayor of chokesville in the first round as the 1 seed.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 3/8/2011 5:35p).]

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I think Dirk is more deserving

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Dirk is having his worse statistical year in a decade.

23.0 ppg
6.6 rpg

Really, an MVP PF getting 23 and 6?

Might as well give it to Ginobili for having the most wins.

Amare has 26/8 AND is leading the Knicks to the playoffs.
Love has 21/16.
Howard at 23/14
Randolph at 20/13.
Griffin at 23/13.
Bron at 26/8/7
Kobe at 25/5/5
Durant at 28/7
Rose at 25/8/4

In a year with weak candidates, maybe you could make a case for Dirk, but the Mavs have just the third best record and Dirk is putting up decade-low totals in points, rebounds, steals, and blocks.

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Chandler over Noah? No
Marion over Deng? No
Kidd over Rose? No
Haywood over Gibson? No
Terry over Korver/Brewer? Maybe, but not in the playoffs
Dirk over Boozer? Debateable Serious question. I guarantee you there are people that would take Boozer's low post game over Dirk's game. How many times do I have to hear that Dirk will never win because he won't play the low post.

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Let's not pretend that Dirk is playing w/ ****. Considering Rose has played without Noah and Boozer for significant portions of the season, the idea that he has a better supporting cast to this point is asinine and the Mavs bench is WAY better than the Bulls. Don't act like that's even close to debateable.

The Mavs bench is perceived to be better because Marion and Terry don't start, even though they are part of the final 5 every game. They have to bring them off the bench because otherwise the offense tanks when Dirk has to sit - it would be the JJ Barea show.

The Bulls have the best defense in the league, and when Rose is on the bench they play even better defense. Stats here show that the Mavs are just a 33 win team without Dirk, while the Bulls are still a playoff caliber team without Rose.

That analysis should have been tossed in the toilet like toilet paper when it showed the Thunder being a team 7 games better without Russel Westbrook, the Lakers only 4 games worse sans Kobe, or sans Dwight Howard, the Magic are only 3 games worse.

The fact that Marion and Terry actually play in crunch time for the Mavs just goes to show you how good the Mav's bench is. Heck, Terry is probably the best bench player in the last few years. I'm not arguing that the Mavs have far and away a better supporting cast than the Bulls... just that Dirk's supporting cast is damn good. The Mavs as a whole are capable of doing so many more diverse things on both ends of the floor due to the construction of their team this year.

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In a year with weak candidates, maybe you could make a case for Dirk, but the Mavs have just the third best record and Dirk is putting up decade-low totals in points, rebounds, steals, and blocks.

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First off, let's not pretend Dirk is on the floor to rebound or play defense. Defense/hustle guys like Chandler, Haywood, and Matrix are there to do that. He is there to score.

Simply put, his scoring (PPG) and rebounding and basicallly all his numbers are down because his minutes per game are the lowest of his career aside from maybe his rookie season. Meanwhile his shooting % from basically every spot on the floor is the BEST of his career. He's playing less, but he's playing more efficiently.


Like I said, Rose will win.

I'd say that the Mavs and Bulls are relatively even in terms of depth. Luol Deng is having one of his best seasons and Taj Gibson is a very underrated player. It's not like Rose softened the loss of Noah/Boozer all on his own (not to discredit his contribution during that time either). The Bulls are the best defensive team in the NBA. All that, plus the fact that the Mavs went 2-7 without Dirkus, and the Mavs still have a better record.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 3/8/2011 9:05p).]

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All that, plus the fact that the Mavs went 2-7 without Dirkus

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This point is overrated simply because the arguers of it seem to ignore that the Mavs also lost probably their 2nd best overall player (Butler) in that same stretch... I mean, that's a lot for ANY team to get used to going to battle without at once.

I'm not trying to belittle Dirk's accomplishments. He's been a great player this season. But the way Rose has stepped up both defensively and as an overall playmaker is just outstanding.

The fact the Mavs have done what they've done with less Dirk on the floor goes to show you how good their team really is.

[This message has been edited by ATM9000 (edited 3/8/2011 9:12p).]

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This point is overrated simply because the arguers of it seem to ignore that the Mavs also lost probably their 2nd best overall player (Butler) in that same stretch... I mean, that's a lot for ANY team to get used to going to battle without at once.

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I'm not ignoring it. What you fail to realize is I could follow all of your anti-Dirk/pro-Rose logic and make a case FOR Dirk.

"Rose has stepped up as a playmaker"
Dirk is playing the most efficient basketball of his career. Shooting at a career clip from basically everywhere on the floor.

"Rose carried the team while Boozer/Noah missed 30 something games"
Dirk has carried the team basically the entire season without the Mavs #2 scoring option, 2-7 without Dirk. What are the numbers without just Butler? What you think is an overrated stat is actually more meaningful in that context.

"Dirk's decreased minutes show how awesome the team is without needing Dirk"
The Bulls are the best defensive team in the NBA, Noah having a career year despite injury, off-season additions of regular contributors: Boozer, Brewer, Korver, Thomas, Bogans.



My logic is not flawed. I think Rose will win the MVP because he's a great, exciting young player on a good team.

I also think that Dirk is more important to his team than anyone is giving him credit for. A team that has a better record than Rose's team by the way.

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Dirk is playing the most efficient basketball of his career.

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Dirk's PER this year is the 7th best of his career. Not exactly the most efficient basketball of his career. He is shooting very well.

But since he is a defensive and rebounding liability, his scoring better be great, but it isnt. We should ignore his HUGE short coming, and concentrate on his scoring when he isn't a top 5 scorer?

Dirk isn't close to an MVP candidate. He is 10th in scoring, and that is the only thing he does well. He is 23rd AT HIS POSITION in rebounding. That's below such noted rebounders as Amir Johnson and Greg Monroe.

But we should ignore all that, and have Dirk be a top candidate, despite the fact that there are a lot of other guys that are better scorers AND do a lot of other things well, too?

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Dirk isn't close to an MVP candidate. He is 10th in scoring, and that is the only thing he does well. He is 23rd AT HIS POSITION in rebounding.

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He will finish in the top 5 if the Mavs can secure the 2 seed and hit an elite winning threshold, because the voters will recognize his value to his team is greater than any player on the 3-4 elite teams. All this despite his basic stats continuing to go down. He rebounds at the same per minute rate as last year, which is after the Mavs acquired one of the best rebounding SFs in the league and committed to playing a defensive/rebounding minded center full time instead of mixing in a small ball rotation. His plus/minus, clutch scoring, efficiency and true shooting% remains solidly near the top.

Guitarsoup, who do you think will win MVP?

Derrick Rose? He is barely a top 10 scorer and barely top 10 in assists. He is a scoring point guard that doesn't shoot 3 pointers, but then he doesn't shoot a lot of free throws either. And he is a defensive liability. And his team is only the 4th best in the league.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 3/8/2011 11:14p).]

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But we should ignore all that, and have Dirk be a top candidate, despite the fact that there are a lot of other guys that are better scorers AND do a lot of other things well, too?

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I know, it's almost as if I already pinned someone else as the 2011 MVP.

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Dirk isn't close to an MVP candidate.

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2nd best team in the NBA (44-10 with Dirk), only player in top 20 of 3p%, fg%, ft%, best shooting numbers of his career, all without the 2nd best player on the team. You have no idea what it means to be MVP if you think he "isn't close".

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2nd best team in the NBA (44-10 with Dirk), only player in top 20 of 3p%, fg%, ft%, best shooting numbers of his career, all without the 2nd best player on the team. You have no idea what it means to be MVP if you think he "isn't close".

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Those statistics all look contrived. When you have to put conditions on your numbers, and when you start talking about shooting percentage and who's missing on your team, your case starts to look a little thin.

There isn't another player that stands out like Rose does. Not a single one.

Dirk's valuable... no doubt. My point re: that 2-7 slump is that let's say tomorrow, Dallas lost Jason Terry and Shawn Marion (or any of their 2 key players) for an extended period of time. The Mavs would immediately suffer for a few games, but if given some time to re-acclimate and set their rotation, they'd be respectable again. Losing 2 major rotation guys like Dallas did in January is monumentally bad because it completely ruins team chemistry for likely extended periods of a game.

You guys already sort of hit the nail on they head yourself to my problem with Dirk being considered over the likes of Howard, Rose, or even Lebron and Kobe. Those 4 guys are difference major difference-makers for their teams on both ends of the floor. Even your most homer-ish of Mavs fan has to admit Dirk is so-so at best defensively. If you have guys playing exceptionally on both ends for great teams, you have to give those guys the nod.

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Even your most homer-ish of Mavs fan has to admit Dirk is so-so at best defensively. If you have guys playing exceptionally on both ends for great teams, you have to give those guys the nod.

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Not only that, but these guys that are outplaying Dirk defensively are also out playing him offensively, too.

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There isn't another player that stands out like Rose does. Not a single one.

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He's got the "it" factor. We throw in that boozer and noah have missed huge parts of the season, but it doesn't hinge upon that. that's just kind of an afterthought because Rose has them playing at such a high level.

Yeah, but Dirk's shooting percentages are REALLY good. That combined with the fact that his team is 3rd or 4th in the NBA should clinch it, Simplebay!

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Rose wins for media hype and flashy style, not stats or dominant winning %.

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LMAO

You, sir, are a moron.