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First off, let's not pretend Dirk is on the floor to rebound or play defense.

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Whenever you preface your case for an MVP candidate with this sentence, I think it's safe to say he won't win MVP. Especially when that candidate is a power forward. lulz.

i lol'd HNIC

i think another area where people are impressed with Rose is his improvements. defense. outside shooting.

i can only imagine what would happen if he had a SG to play with. Keith Boggans is a joke. rip hamilton come on downnn....

You guys need to get on the phone and call ESPN quick. They have Dirk currently 4th in the MVP race and Stein has him as the West's MVP. What are they thinking?

Oh, and once you get off the phone with those guys, call SI.com. They have Dirk at #2.

So, none of them have him winning the MVP then?

I don't think any phone calls are necessary.

West MVP? What does that trophy look like?

^Exactly. And you also didn't list who ESPN has as number one. Or who Stein has as his "East MVP." Or who tops SI's list.

duh mass...

I didn't say he should win it if you look at one of the first responses on this topic. But it seems like the entire thread has turned into a "Dirk is not even in the running" thread. Looks like some of the national sites disagree.

He's definitely a candidate without a doubt. But the disparity between him and rose is huge.

And for HNIC:

ESPN has Rose winning the award (As I do).

Stein had Rose as the East MVP (As I do).

SI has Howard ranked # 1, but says Rose is the national favorite (As I do)

I didn't really jump in until the dude said Rose will win just because of style and insinuated the Mavs have a far inferior supporting cast to the Bulls.

In all honesty.....if Dirk was averaging his normal 25 and 9 or 10 rebounds he would be an absolute lock.

The only thing not making him the clear cut favorite is that his numbers are down.

His numbers are not down because he hasnt played as well.

Quite the contrary.

As has already been mentioned his numbers are down because Rick Carlisle is limiting the amount of his minutes.

Cases For Dirk:

A. Mavs record this season:
If we go back and look a predictions most people on this site had the Mavs somehwere between 5-10 in the West.
They have absolutley exceeded expectaions this season.

B. Mavs record without Dirk:
If Dirk had not gotten injured the Mavs would be threatening San Antonio for the best record in the league.
2-7 without Dirk and 44-10 with him

C. Supporting cast.
Look at every other elite team in the NBA (Lakers, Spurs, Thunder, Bulls, Heat, Boston, Orlando)

There is no other team with a bigger gap between its best player and their 2nd best player.
I love Jason Terry...but he would be the 4th or 5th best player on almost all those teams. Some cases 5th or 6th.

To me...this is (coupled with the Mavs record) Dirks biggest lynchpin if you are arguing for him as the MVP.

Cases against Dirk:
His numbers just arent MVP calibur numbers.
23 and 6 isnt really good enough to justify winning an MVP.

Like I said above...if Dirk was averaging 25-27PPG and 9 or 10 rebounds he would be a lock.

Take Dirk off of the Mavs and this team does not make the playoffs.

With him they are going to challenge for one of the best records in the league.

All in a season where they were not picked to have 60 wins, or anything close to it.

and lets make something really clear. Dirks numbers are not down because he is a less effective player.

They are down because they are really limiting his minutes and the amount of shots that he takes.

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Rose wins for media hype and flashy style, not stats or dominant winning %.
LMAO

You, sir, are a moron.

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Lebron, Durant and Dwight have better stats.

Pierce, Ginobili and Dirk have more wins.

Rose is a media darling who has awesome looking highlights. his stats and wins are great but not as good as the others

You add nothing to this discussion

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Lebron, Durant and Dwight have better stats.

Pierce, Ginobili and Dirk have more wins.

Rose is a media darling who has awesome looking highlights. his stats and wins are great but not as good as the others

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You know what strikes me about this statement? There's no cross-over between those lists. So you could argue that Rose has the best combination of stats and winning%, which seems like a pretty good MVP pedigree to me.

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Yeah, but Dirk's shooting percentages are REALLY good. That combined with the fact that his team is 3rd or 4th in the NBA should clinch it, Simplebay!

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You're an idiot if you think that's what I said. You very stupidly suggested Dirk is not even close to MVP contention, and he's easily in the top 5, maybe even top 3.

You jerking off Simpletard just makes it embarrassing.

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So, none of them have him winning the MVP then?

I don't think any phone calls are necessary.

West MVP? What does that trophy look like?

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Nobody else in this thread has Dirk winning the award either dumb****(s). You clowns should really learn how to read.

Wow. Touchy touchy.

Don't be a big crybaby.

He's not a heat fan.





Or player

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Lebron, Durant and Dwight have better stats.

Pierce, Ginobili and Dirk have more wins.

Rose is a media darling who has awesome looking highlights. his stats and wins are great but not as good as the others

You add nothing to this discussion

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You act like Rose has done nothing of substance. So Lebron, Durant and Dwight have better stats. Are they light years ahead of Rose? No. So Pierce, Ginobili and Dirk have more wins. Do they have a lot more wins? No. Rose led a team without Boozer for the first month or two of the season and then without Noah for the next couple of months. When healthy, Boozer is an All-Star and Noah is right on the verge of being an All-Star. Until the last few weeks, they had played together for only a handful of games. Yet Rose still had his team near the top of the conference. Now that the team is healthy, they are 2nd in the East breathing down the necks of the Celtics. All this with almost a whole new roster and a first time head coach. Yeah, he is just a media darling.

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Wow. Touchy touchy.

Don't be a big crybaby.

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That was pretty much the expected response, since all of your others in this thread have had about that same level of worthlessness.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 3/9/2011 12:20p).]

And take Pierce or Ginobli off their teams and they would still survive. The Bulls would be fighting for a playoff spot without DRose.

I agree that's the best way to do it, but it's tough to rank stats vs wins. Rose needs to hit an elite wins threshold imo, which means hanging on to #2 seed and approaching 60 wins.

When was the last time the MVP wasn't top 5 in pts/reb/ast, didnt get a #1 seed and wasn't a great defender?

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That was pretty much the expected response, since all of your others in this thread have had about that same level of worthlessness.

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You're the one who is so weak-minded that you have to get personal when people don't agree with you over a stupid basketball discussion. Grow up.

But apparently not as weak-minded as those who can't read without comprehending what was actually written.

Was what I said personal? This is the internet. Instead of telling people to grow up, you might want to thicken up a little bit if you're going to interject irrelevant opinions into a discussion without even bothering to understand what is being said.

It's not you disagree. You ignored what he actually said.

I agree that Rose will be MVP, but I'm pointing out that the arguments for him also apply to Dirk. No one has attempted to refute that the Bulls top 7 is better man for man than the Mavs top 7. No one can explain why the Bulls are a better defensive team when Rose is on the bench while still outscoring their opponents

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It's not you disagree. You ignored what he actually said.

I agree that Rose will be MVP, but I'm pointing out that the arguments for him also apply to Dirk. No one has attempted to refute that the Bulls top 7 is better man for man than the Mavs top 7. No one can explain why the Bulls are a better defensive team when Rose is on the bench while still outscoring their opponents

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Might as well not even bother. Any facts presented in favor of Dirk have been instantly twisted into something that was not said, then THAT point is refuted (followed by tongue-in-cheek flames).

The discussion with ATM9000 was actually enjoyable until the trolls saw something positive was said about a Dallas player. Can't let that happen around here.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 3/9/2011 12:52p).]

Trolls? Seriously, grow up. Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean it is a troll. And thick skin? You're the one calling people clowns, dumbasses, and suggesting that the rest of us can't read. You flew off the handle and had a hissy fit because you couldn't believe somebody didn't share your opinion. Stop talking about thick skin and grow some.

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When was the last time the MVP wasn't top 5 in pts/reb/ast, didnt get a #1 seed and wasn't a great defender?

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I looked it up. It has never happened. Congratulations Derrick Rose, you have the least impressive MVP resume of all-time! Years from now we will have to explain why Lebron, Wade or Kobe didn't win this year.

So the Celtics have secured the #1 seed already? Rose is currently 8th in scoring, 0.7 PPG behind 5th place. He is 3rd in the league in rebounding among PG's. He is 10th in assists, 1.2 APG from 5th. One of the reasons his assist and point totals aren't that great is that the Bulls don't score a lot of points. They are built around a tough defense. The Bulls are #1 in the league PPG allowed.

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Trolls? Seriously, grow up. Just because somebody disagrees with you doesn't mean it is a troll. And thick skin? You're the one calling people clowns, dumbasses, and suggesting that the rest of us can't read. You flew off the handle and had a hissy fit because you couldn't believe somebody didn't share your opinion. Stop talking about thick skin and grow some

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Yeah those two sentences were definitely an off-the-handle hissy fit.

Maybe you should make another "I'm the victim" whinepost where you advocate maturity while calling people weak-minded. Hypocrisy always makes me laugh.

You jumped into the discussion halfway in without knowing what was being talked about:

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So, none of them have him winning the MVP then?

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After the entire first page has everyone who's advocating Dirk as a relevant contender say multiple times that Rose is going to win.

Then making a little halfwit, irrelevant comment:

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I don't think any phone calls are necessary.

West MVP? What does that trophy look like?

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You made one half-attempt at any kind of non-drivel:

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Those statistics all look contrived. When you have to put conditions on your numbers, and when you start talking about shooting percentage and who's missing on your team, your case starts to look a little thin.

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Which is based on nothing other than your own worthless opinion. Statistics showing Dirk as a standalone player are met with "Well those facts look contrived because I say they do". One of the biggest arguments for Rose as MVP center around him carrying the Bulls when Boozer/Noah were hurt (something you'd know if you had bothered trying to read), but the fact that Dirk has been without his #2 basically the entire season is seen as null and void (again, based on your own worthless opinion). Best shooting % of his career, lowest minutes per game of his career - you can see why his shooting % would be a relevant statistic instead of overall PPG and RPG right? Especially considering the glimpse we got of the Mavs during that 9 game stretch where he was hurt - a team with a better overall record than Rose's Bulls mustered 2 wins in 9 games with Dirk out.

Or am I giving you too much credit?

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 3/9/2011 2:13p).]

Crybaby.

That's what I thought.

wow judge....and I ruin this board?

GTFO out my thread if you're gonna talk crap about me and just continue to attack. i do not want your opinion in my thread. soup and IF actually had some interesting stats.

thanks for playing.

[This message has been edited by Simplebay (edited 3/9/2011 4:27p).]

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wow judge....and I ruin this board?

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Yes, you do. One thread where you aren't suckling on Kobe's ejaculate won't change that. Actually, nothing will ever change that.

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thanks for playing.

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You're welcome.

[This message has been edited by Judge (edited 3/9/2011 7:31p).]

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When was the last time the MVP wasn't top 5 in pts/reb/ast, didnt get a #1 seed and wasn't a great defender?

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I looked it up. It has never happened. Congratulations Derrick Rose, you have the least impressive MVP resume of all-time! Years from now we will have to explain why Lebron, Wade or Kobe didn't win this year.

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The Bulls currently sit 1/2 game ahead of the Celtics for the 1 seed in the East and Rose is 0.1 PPG behind Melo, who is 5th in the NBA. Still doubting Rose's MVP credentials?

That's great for Rose and the NBA that the Bulls are challenging for the 1 seed and/or 60 wins. I said in February that Rose would win MVP if the Bulls won 60 and got the 2 seed over Miami (this was when the Celtics were on pace for 65 wins).

Rose's argument for MVP is not mainly about stats - but being a top 5 scorer helps. Also we have to realize that it's rare for a true PG to score like that. Rose could be the first post-merger PG to have 25 pts/8 ast.

The NBA MVP used to be associated with championship winning superstars on dominant regular season teams every year, with only a few exceptions. But now that Nash, Dirk and Lebron have joined the club it's losing it's luster. Rose is young, plays in a defense-first system, and seems like a guy who wouldn't decide to abandon his team to play 2nd fiddle to one of his buddies, so he should have a good chance to maintain the MVP legacy.

[This message has been edited by InternetFan02 (edited 3/23/2011 11:10a).]