ofcourse i think dirk is better because i am a dirk homer and also dirk's versatility on the offensive end of the floor. dirk is a better scorer than bird, passing is about the same, rebounding goes to bird. here are some stats:


Bird played 13 years with 12 playoff appearances (one year he was hurt and they missed).
He averaged 24.3 pts and 10.0 rebounds for his career.
He was 23.8 and 10.3 in the playoffs.

Dirk has played 12 years with 10 playoff appearances.
He has averaged 23.0 and 8.4 for his career.
He was 25.6 and 10.9 in the playoffs, showing his value (and not having Parish, McHale, and Johnson).

The difference so far is that Larry won 3 titles and at least 3 MVPs.
With Jason Kidd he may break through this year with a title but with Kobe and LeBron (plus Durant and Howard) I do not see any more MVPs.
I do know Dirk has one MVP so one title and he enters the conversation as one of the best ever.

Dirk is a better scorer. Bird was better at everything else. That's all there is to discuss.

Bird was a much better passer than Dirk. Dirk has greatly improved his passing since his early years, but I don't think you can find many people that think Dirk's passing = Bird's.

That being said, you are on the money that Bird was surrounded with great players and Dirk has always had a suspect supporting cast.

I'm as big a Dirk fan as anyone, but when you compare the entire body of work, Bird is considerably better. As you said, offensively Bird is just as good, and he's a better rebounder. But he was MUCH MUCH MUCH better defender than Dirk has been for most of his career.

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dirk is a better scorer than bird, passing is about the same, rebounding goes to bird.

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I know you couldn't keep a straight face when you typed that.

Bird is by far superior at everything except scoring. Until this year it would have been hard to find anyone to admit that Dirk is a better scorer, but there has been a ton of activity and research the last few weeks digging up advanced scoring stats. Longevity will be more of a factor every year. Bird only had 9 elite seasons, while Dirk is already at 11. Here's a good summary of the advanced stats argument

http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9486

Dirk is getting better at passing, but Bird averaged nearly 7 assists a game over his career. I'm as big a Dirk homer as you'll find, but Bird was a better passer and defender.

Bird won 3 championships with 2 MVPs and 3 finals MVPs.

Scoring a lot of points is cool though

What could Dirk have done on those Celtics teams, though? Even the MVP award is a team award.

It's been pointed out that Bird played with those other great players (which helped him get those rings) but it should be noted he put up those numbers WHILE playing with those great players. Not easy to do.

I can't believe I'm defending Larry Bird. I need a shower.

this thread cannot be shirley. dirk is a better passer than bird? dirk's better than bird? i ****ing hate the celtics, and this thread re-proves that mavs fans are the biggest idiots ever





PLEASE please:

is there a more bitter, ignorant poster on this board than simplebay?

This is where a 20-something Simplebay acts like he spends his free time watching old NBA tapes on YouTube from before he was born instead of just regurgitating opinions that he's heard from other people.

Please, tell us again about your opinion on the great Elgin Baylor, who played his last game in 1971, probably 5-10 years before most of the people on this board were even born, let alone breaking down film.

I'm an idiot for thinking Larry Bird is better than Dirk Nowitzki?

oh jeebus i love this board.

no, you're an idiot based on a lot of proof

No, you're an idiot for acting like you actually watched these players play. Just admit that you have no opinions of your own. Or at least back up your statements with statistics. There are plenty out there to support your position (see my post above on assists per game).

Or you can just keep adding these gems...

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this thread cannot be shirley. dirk is a better passer than bird? dirk's better than bird? i ****ing hate the celtics, and this thread re-proves that mavs fans are the biggest idiots ever

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Exactly what i'd expect from a probable front-running Lakers fan.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 5/24/2011 10:20a).]

Dirk a great player, top 25 or so all time. But he is not Larry Legend. He is as good of a scorer as Larry, but inferior in every other way.

Here are their career stat lines:

Bird: 50% from field, 38% from three, 24.3, 10.0, 6.3
Dirk: 48% from field, 38% from three, 23.0, 8.4, 2.7

Bird = Top 10-15 of all time?
Dirk = Top 25-30 of all time?

Bird is at least top 10, maybe top 5.

I don't think you'll find anyone who actually believes Nowitzki is in Bird's class. That being said, it's nice to hear Magic Johnson make the comparison. I doubt there is anybody in the world that (1) respects Bird's game more or (2) is in a better position to comment than Magic Johnson.

Hearing Magic make the comparison means a lot.

Cowherd, who I think is completely wrong about a lot of topics, just compared Dirk to Bird - talking about how Bird was averaging 30/10 at a time when you could get absolutely mauled under the basket, on both offense and while rebounding. Also, he brought up the fact that Bird is 10x the passer that Dirk is. Then there's the small matter of the rings.

I agree with Cowherd. I love Dirk, and think he's a unique talent that this league has never seen. But he's not on Larry Legend's level. Not even close.

you are right, bird is a better passer. didnt realize the 6+ assists per game average. bird is better than dirk right now.

dirk better than KG all day any day

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and this thread re-proves that mavs fans are the biggest idiots ever

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Simplebay, your sample size is insufficient for the results you state as fact. I am a Mavs fan who thinks that Dirk and Bird aren't the same. Dirk is Bird-esque, but not up there (yet).

Bam. Your conclusion is wrong.

[This message has been edited by helgs (edited 5/24/2011 10:33a).]

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I don't think you'll find anyone who actually believes Nowitzki is in Bird's class

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yeah you're probably right. or, that was the entire point of this thread.

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ofcourse i think dirk is better

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acting like you actually watched these players play.

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i have watched Larry Bird play

and this...

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dirk better than KG all day any day

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wrong. it's highly debatable. it's not even that much of a landslide on the offensive end in favor of dirk. it is however a landslide in favor of KG on the defensive end.

I am a big fan of both and I agree that Bird was a better defender and passer, but I disagree with those that say Bird is 'the far superior player'.

I think you have to take into account the supporting cast Bird had if you use Championships as a major factor.

Bottom line: Bird was better, but not by the large margin some on here suggest.

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i have watched Larry Bird play

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On highlight tapes, or are you older than 35? Because if you are, I will retract my statements.

[This message has been edited by MW03 (edited 5/24/2011 11:37a).]

I think it is pretty clear that Dirk over the course of his career has been better than KG over the course of his career. It's not open-and-shut, but it is pretty close.


KG: 19.5, 10.7, 4.1
career playoffs: 19.6, 11.1, 3.8

Dirk: 23.0, 8.4, 2.7
career playoff: 25.9, 10.4, 2.6

Larry Bird's stat line in 1987:
28.1ppg
9.2rpg
7.6apg
1.8spg
.525 FG
.400 3FG
.910 FT

That while playing with four other HOF players [ok, Walton barely played], Danny Ainge and that guy who was on a basketball card with Jordan wearing number 12.

But those are really ****ing outstanding numbers.


He also had a 28.7p/10.5r/6.6a/1.6s/.522fg/.427three/.882ft.

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I think it is pretty clear that Dirk over the course of his career has been better than KG over the course of his career. It's not open-and-shut, but it is pretty close.

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There would be a better argument if KG wasn't as good as he is on defense. He has spent his entire career as one of the top defensive players in the league at a time when there are quite a few all-time greats at defense in the league.

Dirk kills KG offensively, but KG kills Dirk defensively.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/24/2011 11:38a).]

They don't call him Larry Legend only because it's catchy.

Honestly, isn't it a general consensus that Bird is in the conversation for best ever? He won't win it over Jordan and the other GOATs, but he's in the conversation.

Again, nice to hear Larry Bird's contemporary, rival, and friend MAGIC EFFING JOHNSON make the comparison. But Simplebay is right. It's a ridiculous comparison. Magic has no idea what he's talking about.

True about KG's defense, but Dirk's ability to turn it on in the playoffs make it pretty clear to me that he gets the nod over KG.

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I agree that Bird was a better defender and passer, but I disagree with those that say Bird is 'the far superior player'.

I think you have to take into account the supporting cast Bird had if you use Championships as a major factor.

Bottom line: Bird was better, but not by the large margin some on here suggest.

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I pretty much agree word for word with the above.

[This message has been edited by watty (edited 5/24/2011 11:42a).]

They only make the comparisons because they are both ugly white guys and you can only compare ugly white guys to other ugly white guys. There are rules they have to abide by.

Dirk's better looking than Bird. No homo.