If that's true, based on the deal, the owners are looking out for their individual teams and not the interests of the hornets. you can't say the hornets didn't get better with this.

so, what, they're gonna wait till CP3 walks out the door next year or until the team gets sold, in hopes that the lakers dont land howard as well and win 5 straight championships?

it's possible.

Am I the only one that doesn't think this is a good team:

Okefor
Scola
Odom/Ariza
KMart
Jarret Jack

That's a .500 team at best. A couple picks from the Knicks and Rockets are good for 18-23rd, which isn't going to be super valuable.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 12/8/2011 8:42p).]

buzz on twitter and espn chat say Dell Demps is furious. most people seem to agree this was a good trade for the hornets, a REALLY good trade for the rockets, and a giant gamble for the lakers (either championship, or flame out)

The team that gets the best player in a trade almost always does best.

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The team that gets the best player in a trade almost always does best.

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Always. Not almost.

Somebody please explain how giving up two solid players in Scola & Martin (+ Dragic, but nobody gives a *****about him), AND a first AND second round pick for one, admittedly very good player. I think that's a bad trade for Houston all around with us giving up WAY too much for one non-superstar player. If we dropped the picks i'd be on board.

Houston is the only team that will come out worse if this trade goes through as is.

@Mike_Bresnahan: NBA source: "Not true that owners killed the deal. League office declined to make the trade for basketball reasons."

HNIC, how would we be losing if the rockets get the best player in the gasol -> scola/Martin swap. (We wouldn't)

I dont think the Rockets get much better by dropping Dragic, Scola and Marting for Gasol.

And you still have the problem of not having a go-to player to lead the team.

Gasol/Thabeet
Patterson/Hill
Buddinger/Blakely
Lee/Terrence Williams
Kyle/Flynn

That isn't a good team. That still isn't a good defensive team. You don't have a #1 scorer. You dont have a crunch time player. You are still a .500 team there.

You just said whoever gets the best player wins in the trade.

CP3 is the best player.

In the Martin and scola for gasol side trade, gasol is the best player.

That's fine:

This team doesn't make a playoff run:
Gasol/Thabeet
Patterson/Hill
Buddinger/Blakely
Lee/Terrence Williams
Kyle/Flynn

I don't think that team is at all better than what they had.

The Rockets would be better with Gasol. Patterson gives you more athleticism and rebounding than Scola and with Martin gone it clears room for Lee and Buddinger to get some much needed playing time. Plus they are not defensive retards like Martin. But it doesn't matter anyway

So you are contradicting yourself. Just making sure.

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So you are contradicting yourself. Just making sure.

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Have your reading skills gotten worse?

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The team that gets the best player in a trade almost always does best.

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Overall team wise, I think it is a pretty lateral move. If Houston can pick up another legit player, it would help a lot. Don't think you are going to be able to get Nene since Denver has half their players trapped in China. Butler is already gone.


FWIW: Hollinger's formula has the Rockets at -9 wins when they trade out Dragic, Scola and Martin for Gasol.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 12/8/2011 10:34p).]

Guess which ESPN writer wrote this in an article tonight.

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In the meantime, the Houston Rockets have to be upset. Houston took a gamble here, but getting Gasol would have opened up a crucial $3 million more in cap space it could have used to offer Nene a max contract. That frontcourt, combined with great depth and several underrated perimeter players, would likely have propelled the Rockets to a top-four seed in the West, if not better. (Scoff if you will, but Houston had the scoring margin of a 48-win team last season. It didn't need to improve that dramatically to join the elite.)

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Interesting his analysis says the opposite of what his stats do.

And I think Denver matches for Nene because:
1. They are way below the Salary Cap and the salary floor
2. Wilson Chandler, JR Smith and KMart are stuck in China and it looks like they won't be able to resign any of those players.

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HNIC, how would we be losing if the rockets get the best player in the gasol -> scola/Martin swap. (We wouldn't)

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Because Pau Gasol ****ing sucks?

The Rockets won 43 games last season because of defined roles and grit/tenacity. Was that team built to go far in the playoffs? Of course not.

Does bringing in Gasol at the expense of Kevin Martin (who I hate) and Scola (who is what is he is but at least he loves playing here) improve the team? Hell to the naw.

Why? Because Gasol is basically the anti-Houston Rocket with respect to how last year's team was built. Again, if this is the biggest move Morey plans on making all season, it will be a colossal failure. If it's a seque into to other moves, then fine.

But for ANYONE to think a Gasol-for-Martin/Scola trade is a win for the side that gets Gasol is absolute idiocy. Truth.

Gasol sucks? Sucks among the top 3 power forwards in the league... maybe. Sucks period? That's laughable. This team was built to play around a strong offensive center.

By the way, this team won't miss Kevin Martin. Never created offense for anyone, never rebounded, and NEVER played defense. His best offense was rip moves and other cheap antics to get himself to the free throw line. When you get a chance, review the new rule changes that the NBA is implementing this year. They pretty much make everything Kevin Martin does to get to the line not a shooting foul anymore. That's what made KMart so efficient in the first place -- the free throw line.

As for Scola, it was already starting to become clear that Patrick Patterson was as-good, if not better than him already. Patterson had the same scoring burst, more athleticism, and better rebounding... and he lacked nothing in the effort department. Scola definitely had the veteran edge and knack to get the easy bucket, but he also had a knack for looking extremely slow while the athletic power forwards of the league blasted by him while he was stuck in mud. With Marcus Morris coming in, Scola was expendable.

And of course our team doesn't look perfect now, but if the trade had gone through, we would have had the money to sign a max-free agent. Take our roster and add a max free agent and then all of a sudden we look a lot more contender worthy.

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This team was built to play around a strong offensive center.

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The team hasn't been built around Yao for a couple years. They knew he was done.

The team is built with the best trade pieces that Morey could put together looking for bigger and better things.

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By the way, this team won't miss Kevin Martin. Never created offense for anyone, never rebounded, and NEVER played defense. His best offense was rip moves and other cheap antics to get himself to the free throw line. When you get a chance, review the new rule changes that the NBA is implementing this year. They pretty much make everything Kevin Martin does to get to the line not a shooting foul anymore. That's what made KMart so efficient in the first place -- the free throw line.

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KMart would be fine if you had a great all-around center that scored (like young Duncan or Howard) and you had a SF like Battier and a PG like Lowry. Then he could score and shortcomings would be hidden by the strong defenders around him.

But KMart will always be a Shareef-type player. Buckets on a bad team.

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As for Scola, it was already starting to become clear that Patrick Patterson was as-good, if not better than him already. Patterson had the same scoring burst, more athleticism, and better rebounding... and he lacked nothing in the effort department.

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Patterson had like 5 good games last year.

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And of course our team doesn't look perfect now, but if the trade had gone through, we would have had the money to sign a max-free agent. Take our roster and add a max free agent and then all of a sudden we look a lot more contender worthy.

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Which would be fantastic if there were a Max Free Agent on the market. That was last year.

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Because Pau Gasol ****ing sucks?

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I'm glad somebody else sees this. Gasol is a soft piece of eurotrash that would be garbage without Kobe. I'm ecstatic the NBA blocked this trade.

What does the NBA mean by "for basketball reasons"?

'Basketball reasons'? Pft... it means the league-owned Hornets were already in big trouble w/ an exciting superstar like Chris Paul. That team might not be solvent by the end of the season when you remove him and put a couple of boring players who likely don't make them a playoff team on it to replace it.

And scola and Martin aren't soft???

People bemoaning this trade, I encourage you to go down the line of Western Conference teams last season and compare each team's starting power forward to Scola. I count 1 team Scola might start over and 1 that he definitely would be the starter on. That makes him an AVERAGE power forward and not a very good starter. I mean, I like Scola and understand he makes cute videos for Rockets promos, but he's really not the big plus everybody makes him out to be.

I argued this last season, but KMart is a quitessential empty statistics All Star. End of the day, he's nice to have if you have 2 or 3 better players on the team, but he's not a lead or even a #2 guy on a contender.

I understand Pau had a bad run in the playoffs last season, but he's a legit All Star power forward who likely has 4 good seasons left in the tank and can also move over to play Center. I don't see how anyone can argue this doesn't make the Rockets any better. I've been pretty critical of Morey being a little too moneyball centric in terms of managing the team. However, this is the sort of move you've got to make to become better. End of the day, there's only like 25 guys as good or better than Gasol. There's probably 100 better than both Scola and Martin. Therefore, those guys aren't that rare of commodities in the NBA.

You should always trade the 2 Honda Accords for the 7 series... every team knows this.

I think too many people are glossing over the fact that in addition to the 3 players we would have been giving up a 1st and 2nd round draft pick. For a team that is solidly average and not going to land a superstar (i dont think gasol or nene qualify), growing through the draft is not only wise, but paramount.

Giving up the Knick's draft pick and a 2nd rounder... so basically a really late round pick and a 2nd rounder. Not glossing over that, but this isn't the NFL. Those are both bought and sold pretty easily annually at the draft.

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And scola and Martin aren't soft???

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I don't think Scola is soft. He is a bit of a flopper but he holds his own in the paint for his size. Martin...not sure if soft is the right word; he just doesn't play defense.

If we did this trade, Gasol would be our hands down best player. He is pretty good but older. Also, he has proven that he is extemely soft in the mental aspect as well as the physical. If we are counting on this guy in the clutch situations, we are in trouble. We would still be a marginal playoff team imo.

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He is a bit of a flopper but he holds his own in the paint for his size.

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Power forwards consistently abused him in the post last season.

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Martin...not sure if soft is the right word; he just doesn't play defense

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And that's a problem when you are running the wing with Buddinger.

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Also, he has proven that he is extemely soft in the mental aspect as well as the physical.

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Re-watch the 2010 Finals.

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We would still be a marginal playoff team imo.

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Haven't been a playoff team in 2 seasons... so I guess you are admitting this makes the Rockets a better team?

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Haven't been a playoff team in 2 seasons... so I guess you are admitting this makes the Rockets a better team?

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I said marginal. You realize we have not been a terrible team right? We were in the mix for the 8 spot most of last season. So imo, we will be about the same. Battling for the 8 spot. Looking at the overall team, not sure how this improves us very much if at all.

You keep pointing to he 2010 finals. That was more of the exeception than the rule. Also, he had a pretty good team around him as well if you noticed.

If you noticed, the Lakers weren't worth a damn until Gasol got to that team. I don't know where he gets this 'soft' stigma. The guy is an elite player.

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The guy is an elite player.

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Really?