I hesitate to say that anyone beats Larry Bird, but would you think that Dirk is more consistent on the long shots?.

[This message has been edited by winAgswin (edited 1/5/2012 1:24p).]

That would be a difficult call--

Other than they are both white and good shooters I see them as radically different players. Bird was an excellent passer and defender, Dirk much less so. Dirk is 7' tall, Bird only about 6'9". Dirk a better rebounder.

I think the thing they have most similar is they lead their team, and hit clutch shots. If Dirk can win another championship or two it would help when comparing their intangibles.

Dirk already has more longevity. Just played in his 1000th game and Bird never made it that far.

Dirk is going to have awesome numbers when he's done (already does). I was very young during Bird's prime. He definitely handled the ball and passed better. I get nervous whenever Dirk takes more than 2 dribbles. Dirk has him beat on longevity. When he slows down, he could be a great #2 guy/outside jump-shooter for several more years.

Both are white and ugly

Hmmm...Dirk has 2 points tonight at the half against the Spurs. That ain't no Larry Bird.

Larry Bird's Favorite arena was the Hemisphere in Saytown

2 reasons- he loved to see the Air Force kids in the upper deck and he never lost there

Players have bad games. Dirk has had one tonight. I'm sure Larry Legend had a few.

Hemisfair

Bird had the higher baseketball IQ and he just flat out made people around him better. I love Dirk and think he is incredible, but he is behind Bird by quite a bit in my book.

Dirk never had his own game.

Dirk took an inferior team to a title than anything Bird ever played with. Not saying he is better but he is in the conversation.

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Dirk a better rebounder.

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Larry Bird played SF with a HOF Center and PF (plus another one off the bench for a while) for his entire career and averaged 10RPG and 2 offensive rebounds per game. Dirk has failed to EVER even reach 10 RPG or 2 ORPG in any single season.

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I think the thing they have most similar is they lead their team, and hit clutch shots.

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Dirk had an amazing run of clutch plays last year, but also has a long history of chokes, too.

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If Dirk can win another championship or two it would help when comparing their intangibles.

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Bird is one of the all time greats. Dirk will probably never be in the same league. Three titles and the only back to back to back MVP ever. Bird averaged 28p/9r/8a/2s/1b/.525/.400/.910 for a season. Wake me when Dirk gets even remotely close to that, while still playing great defense.

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Bird is one of the all time greats. Dirk will probably never be in the same league. Three titles and the only back to back to back MVP ever. Bird averaged 28p/9r/8a/2s/1b/.525/.400/.910 for a season. Wake me when Dirk gets even remotely close to that, while still playing great defense.

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In 06-07 Dirk:
24.6/9r/4a/1s/1b/.502/.416/.904
05-06:
26.6/9r/2.8a/1s/1b/.480/.406/.901

Just some examples.

Dirk's entire career is similar to Birds from a statistical standpoint. Only difference is really defense which Bird is an all time great. They did not play the same position though so it's apples to oranges.

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Dirk's entire career is similar to Birds from a statistical standpoint. Only difference is really defense which Bird is an all time great.

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Umm.... Except assists. Bird averaged 6.3 for his career and never dropped below 4.5. He peaked at 7.6.

Dirk has averaged 2.7 for his career, including 1.0 his rookie year and 2.1 his third year. He peaked at 3.8.

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They did not play the same position though so it's apples to oranges.

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They really did. Both played primarily perimeter and high post. If anything, Dirk played more down low, which doesn't really explain the fact that his rebounding was 20% worse than Bird's.

Also scoring - Bird was flat out a better scorer, while also being a better passer, defender and ball handler. Bird averaged 24PPG for his career, peaking at 29.9. Dirk has averaged 22.9, peaking at 26.6.

You realize that in 85 when Bird averaged 28.7p/10.5r/6.6a/1.6s/.522fg/.427three, each of those 6 major stat categories tops Dirk's career high.

Dirk is great. But he is not close to Bird. Bird is top 10 all time. Dirk is borderline top 50.

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Dirk is great. But he is not close to Bird. Bird is top 10 all time. Dirk is borderline top 50

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It's near impossible for anyone to hang onto this argument anymore. Dirk is borderline top 20 at worst. To claim otherwise is just silly.

Let me guess, you would still take Barkley and Malone over Dirk. You used to claim he needed the title to validate his position in the top 25. Now he is slipping in your rankings.



[This message has been edited by t - cam (edited 1/9/2012 11:45a).]

Show me where I ever put Dirk anywhere near the top 25. I know I did say he needed a title to put him in top 50. An MVP and a 67 win season doesn't get you there.

http://www.nba.com/statistics/default_all_time_leaders/AllTimeLeadersPTSQuery.html?topic=4&stat=1

Barring injury, Dirk will move from 23rd to 18th all time in scoring this year.

Unless there is a dramatic drop-off or sudden retirement, he finishes #7 all time or greater. He only needs 4,500 points to do so (3,000 to crack top 10 all time). That's manageable right?

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Dirk is borderline top 50.

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Come on, now.

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Dirk is borderline top 50.

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Personally, I think it's silly to compare the two, since they don't have the same game at all. Bird is clearly better, but Dirk is definitely one of the all-time greats. I think him and Duncan will end up in the same range, hopefully Garnett doesn't/

I hope your kidding about Dirk being borderline top 50. I do think Barkley and Malone are a little better and Duncan is far superior (obviously).

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Dirk a better rebounder.

Larry Bird played SF with a HOF Center and PF (plus another one off the bench for a while) for his entire career and averaged 10RPG and 2 offensive rebounds per game. Dirk has failed to EVER even reach 10 RPG or 2 ORPG in any single season.

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I think the thing they have most similar is they lead their team, and hit clutch shots.

Dirk had an amazing run of clutch plays last year, but also has a long history of chokes, too.

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If Dirk can win another championship or two it would help when comparing their intangibles.

Bird is one of the all time greats. Dirk will probably never be in the same league. Three titles and the only back to back to back MVP ever. Bird averaged 28p/9r/8a/2s/1b/.525/.400/.910 for a season. Wake me when Dirk gets even remotely close to that, while still playing great defense.

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While I'm a bit surprised to see those rebounding stats you posted (never knew Bird got that many boards), I guess the stat I was thinking of is that along with Olajuwon, Petit, and Baylor, Dirk is the only player in NBA history to avg. 25 points and 10 rebounds during the playoffs. So to me Dirk is one of the all-time great scorers/rebounders in the playoffs. In fact, Dirk averages 11 RPG in the playoffs, Bird only 10.3

Which brings me back around to their intangibles. Without a doubt Dirk has raised his game in the playoffs, throughout his career. You state "Dirk had an amazing run of clutch plays last year, but also has a long history of chokes, too." this is blatantly and unquestionably false. Its a long perpetrated lie that Dirk has always choked in the playoffs. The Mavericks have had a good run of playoff failures, now capped off with a title. But during all those failures, Dirk was raising his game, averaging more points and more rebounds than he did in the regular season. And I can't think of a single game in all those playoff runs, where the deciding shot in the deciding game was missed by Dirk. There have been numerous game-winning shots made by Dirk however.

And yeh, your claim that Dirk is "Top 50" is just outright ridiculous. He's easily Top 20, moving into Top 15.

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You state "Dirk had an amazing run of clutch plays last year, but also has a long history of chokes, too." this is blatantly and unquestionably false.

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It is absolutely 100% true. He was the 'leader' of a 67 win team that lost to an 8 seed and the 'leader' of a heavily favored Mavs team that was up by double digits in game 3 with a two game lead in the Finals and lost 4 straight. MAJOR choke jobs.

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But during all those failures, Dirk was raising his game, averaging more points and more rebounds than he did in the regular season.

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That's fine. He still put up 2-14 when it mattered. Who cares what he did when it didn't matter. Dirk was bounced time and time again when it mattered. He has 5 first round exits.

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While I'm a bit surprised to see those rebounding stats you posted (never knew Bird got that many boards)

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Had you even been born in the 80s?

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I hope your kidding about Dirk being borderline top 50. I do think Barkley and Malone are a little better and Duncan is far superior (obviously).

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Obvious Troll is Obvious.
The Barkley/Malone thing is difficult because Barkley and Malone accomplished so much, both were better passers, rebounders defenders and scorers than Dirk. But Dirk won a title and Chuck and Karl didn't. Also, Karl is a huge dbag, while Dirk is a really upstanding guy.

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And yeh, your claim that Dirk is "Top 50" is just outright ridiculous. He's easily Top 20, moving into Top 15.

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Dirk is somewhere in the 30-50 range. No ****ing way is he easily top 20.
In no order, just numbered to count.
1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Jordan
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Robinson
9. Garnett
10. Havlichek
11. Kareem
12. Cousey
13. Mikan
14. Olajuwon
15. Moses
16. DrJ
17. Malone
18. Barkley
19. Pettit
20. Walton
21. Reed
22. Cowens
23. Kobe
24. LeBron
25. Durant
26. Jason Kidd
27. John Stockton
28. Big E
29. Oscar Robertson
30. Steve Nash
31. DWade
32. Gary Payton
33. Dwight Howard
34. Schayes
35. West
36. McHale
37. Elgin Baylor
38. Pippen
39. Frazier
40. Sam Jones

Is Dirk easily better than half of those? I don't think so. Some are obviously still playing, but I would take any of the current players I listed over Dirk.

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Unless there is a dramatic drop-off or sudden retirement, he finishes #7 all time or greater. He only needs 4,500 points to do so (3,000 to crack top 10 all time). That's manageable right?

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You never know what someone's body will do with all those miles, but I think Dirk will manage that. He has been really durable and heals quicker than pretty much anyone.

Dirk's problems:
One dimensional. He is a scorer. A great one with a lot of weapons, but he sucks as a ball handler, rebounder and defender. And as a scorer, he has never finished better than top 4 in scoring and only managed that twice in his career. He has generally been a 6-10th player in the league at his strongest asset. His rebounding and defense has ranged from abhorrant to nearly average his entire career. He has never led the league in ANY major stat category. Not FG%, FT%, 3FG%, Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, etc. Dirk has his title, which helped a lot. Before his title, he was just another Ice/Pete/Dominique - or a slight notch above due to his MVP (that that was more of a team accomplishment trophy due to the 67 wins and weak crop of MVP contenders.) And of course, the embarrassing playoff losses. That is a lot of negatives. But he does have a lot of clutch plays and a lot of "HTF did he make that shot" plays. But that doesn't get you to top 20 when you were never a top 3 scorer and that is your only positive facet of your game.

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You state "Dirk had an amazing run of clutch plays last year, but also has a long history of chokes, too." this is blatantly and unquestionably false.

It is absolutely 100% true. He was the 'leader' of a 67 win team that lost to an 8 seed and the 'leader' of a heavily favored Mavs team that was up by double digits in game 3 with a two game lead in the Finals and lost 4 straight. MAJOR choke jobs.

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But during all those failures, Dirk was raising his game, averaging more points and more rebounds than he did in the regular season.

That's fine. He still put up 2-14 when it mattered. Who cares what he did when it didn't matter. Dirk was bounced time and time again when it mattered. He has 5 first round exits.

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This is such bullsh and it pisses me off when people try to heap everything about a team sport on one player. Absolute nonsense. Hell if one referee hadn't decided to give Dwyane Wade a free pass to the free throw line in Game 3 of the 2006 Finals, Dirk would have two rings and one less "choke job" people like you want to pin on him. This isn't tennis, this isn't golf. It's a team sport with a lot of moving parts. Dirk has spectacular playoff numbers. Quit spewing lies.

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While I'm a bit surprised to see those rebounding stats you posted (never knew Bird got that many boards)

Had you even been born in the 80s?

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It's none of your business but I was born in the 1970's. I was too busy watching the Mavericks to care what Larry Bird's rebounding stats were. Not that I hate Larry. I liked him quite a bit. I would always root for the Celtics to beat the Lakers, because I hated the Lakers. No need to get high and mighty because I flubbed one stat. (Dirk still has a higher rebounding average in the playoffs though)

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I hope your kidding about Dirk being borderline top 50. I do think Barkley and Malone are a little better and Duncan is far superior (obviously).

Obvious Troll is Obvious.
The Barkley/Malone thing is difficult because Barkley and Malone accomplished so much, both were better passers, rebounders defenders and scorers than Dirk. But Dirk won a title and Chuck and Karl didn't. Also, Karl is a huge dbag, while Dirk is a really upstanding guy.

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And yeh, your claim that Dirk is "Top 50" is just outright ridiculous. He's easily Top 20, moving into Top 15.

Dirk is somewhere in the 30-50 range. No ****ing way is he easily top 20.
In no order, just numbered to count.
1. Russell
2. Wilt
3. Jordan
4. Bird
5. Magic
6. Duncan
7. Shaq
8. Robinson
9. Garnett
10. Havlichek
11. Kareem
12. Cousey
13. Mikan
14. Olajuwon
15. Moses
16. DrJ
17. Malone
18. Barkley
19. Pettit
20. Walton
21. Reed
22. Cowens
23. Kobe
24. LeBron
25. Durant
26. Jason Kidd
27. John Stockton
28. Big E
29. Oscar Robertson
30. Steve Nash
31. DWade
32. Gary Payton
33. Dwight Howard
34. Schayes
35. West
36. McHale
37. Elgin Baylor
38. Pippen
39. Frazier
40. Sam Jones

Is Dirk easily better than half of those? I don't think so. Some are obviously still playing, but I would take any of the current players I listed over Dirk.

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The very fact that you list Lebron up there higher than Dirk shows that you either don't have a clue or are just a toll trying to bait us.

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Unless there is a dramatic drop-off or sudden retirement, he finishes #7 all time or greater. He only needs 4,500 points to do so (3,000 to crack top 10 all time). That's manageable right?

You never know what someone's body will do with all those miles, but I think Dirk will manage that. He has been really durable and heals quicker than pretty much anyone.

Dirk's problems:
One dimensional. He is a scorer. A great one with a lot of weapons, but he sucks as a ball handler, rebounder and defender. And as a scorer, he has never finished better than top 4 in scoring and only managed that twice in his career. He has generally been a 6-10th player in the league at his strongest asset. His rebounding and defense has ranged from abhorrant to nearly average his entire career. He has never led the league in ANY major stat category. Not FG%, FT%, 3FG%, Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, steals, etc. Dirk has his title, which helped a lot. Before his title, he was just another Ice/Pete/Dominique - or a slight notch above due to his MVP (that that was more of a team accomplishment trophy due to the 67 wins and weak crop of MVP contenders.) And of course, the embarrassing playoff losses. That is a lot of negatives. But he does have a lot of clutch plays and a lot of "HTF did he make that shot" plays. But that doesn't get you to top 20 when you were never a top 3 scorer and that is your only positive facet of your game.

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You say his rebounding is abhorrent, but his career average is not far behind Bird's, and is better than Bird in the playoffs. I guess you are basing it on the fact that he's 7'0" but come on we both know Dirk is a perimeter player. Those rebounding numbers are very good for a perimeter player. Or are you saying Bird's rebounding numbers are abhorrent? Because if they are maybe he's not a top 10 player either. (I don't believe this but you can't play it both ways).

Finally I notice you never seem to bring up that Bird was playing alongside some of the greatest players of his era. McHale, Parish, Walton. And many very, very good role players like Ainge and DJ. During Dirk's "choke jobs" - who was playing center for the Mavs? Eric Dampier. Eric freaking Dampier was trying to hold off the likes of Shaq and Duncan.

But this is just like people who are Joe Monatana fans, who when someone tries to compare the accomplishments of a Marino or Fouts or even Elway to Montana, they just say "uh-uh four rings". You can't get anywhere with those people, nor will I ever get anywhere with you. Too damn stubborn. So I now say to you "Good Day Sir."

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You say his rebounding is abhorrent, but his career average is not far behind Bird's

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Bird played with three HOF post players, and still averaged 20% more rebounds than Dirk. Dirk's rebounding is at 5pg right now, that is abhorrant. When he was at 9+ a game, that was pretty average for a 7'er playing 38 minutes.

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I guess you are basing it on the fact that he's 7'0" but come on we both know Dirk is a perimeter player.

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So was Bird, and Bird played with MUCH better post players than Dirk. Ummmm Kevin McHale or Desagana Diop? Robert Parish or Raef LaFrenz?

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Or are you saying Bird's rebounding numbers are abhorrent? Because if they are maybe he's not a top 10 player either. (I don't believe this but you can't play it both ways).

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Bird is 20% better, was smaller and played with better teammates. What is Dirk's excuse other than he is soft? I am not playing it both ways. 10RPG=good. 8rpg=mediocre.

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Finally I notice you never seem to bring up that Bird was playing alongside some of the greatest players of his era. McHale, Parish, Walton. And many very, very good role players like Ainge and DJ. During Dirk's "choke jobs" - who was playing center for the Mavs? Eric Dampier. Eric freaking Dampier was trying to hold off the likes of Shaq and Duncan.

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That's fine. DJ didn't get Bird his Back-to-Back-to-Back MVPs.

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You can't get anywhere with those people, nor will I ever get anywhere with you. Too damn stubborn

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Also, have have those pesky facts on my side. Name twenty players Dirk is easily better than that I listed. And I Didn't even list all the NBA"s top 50 all time.

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But this is just like people who are Joe Monatana fans, who when someone tries to compare the accomplishments of a Marino or Fouts or even Elway to Montana, they just say "uh-uh four rings".

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That's what you ****ers do with Dirk. Without last year's ring, Dirk is another George Gervin, Pistol Pete or Nique. Borderline Top 50 one-dimensional scorer.

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The very fact that you list Lebron up there higher than Dirk shows that you either don't have a clue or are just a toll trying to bait us.

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Alright, name 19 other players Dirk is easily better than.

Bron vs Dirk:
Scoring titles; Bron 1, Dirk 0
Career PPG: Bron 27.7, Dirk 22.4
Peak PPG: Bron 30.0. Dirk 26.6
RPG: Dirk 8.4, Bron 7.1
Peak RPG: Dirk 9.9, Bron 7.9
SPG: Bron 1.7, Dirk .9
Peak SPG: Bron 2.2, Dirk 1.3
APG: Bron 7.0, Dirk 2.6
Peak APG: Bron 8.6, Dirk 3.5
PER: Bron 27.0, Dirk 23.7
Per Peak: Bron 31.7, Dirk 28.1
MVP: Bron 2, Dirk 1
Championships: Dirk 1, Bron 0
Finals appearances: tied 2
All-NBA First team: Bron 5, Dirk 4
All-Defense First team: Bron 3, Dirk 0

Even though Bron is pretty much universally hated and DIrk is a good guy, no one will ever think of Dirk as a better player than LeBron, even if the Heatles never win a title. If Cuban was offered Bron for Dirk, I guarantee you he would take it before Pat Riley could be revived. And he would have done that in any year from 2003 until now. LeBron is simply a better basketball player than Dirk ever will be. And that stupid ****er just turned 27, so he has a lot of tread left on the tires. Remember LeBron is also crazy durable. He has failed to get to 3000 minutes just ONCE in his career. Dirk has failed to reach 3000 minutes 7 times.

Chances are pretty good Bron will get another couple MVPs and probably a ring or two.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 1/9/2012 11:52p).]

You act like I'm trying to say Dirk is better than Bird. No one in this thread has said that, yet your on the defensive like we are. Good lord.

I know I said I quit but here is one last point I should have made earlier. History of the League. People who have a Finals MVP and a League MVP. There are 14 of them. Dirk is one. Bird is certainly one too. I'm NOT trying to say Dirk is as good as Larry Bird!! But he's not barely in the Top 50!! He's not equivalent to Dominique Wilkins!

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You act like I'm trying to say Dirk is better than Bird. No one in this thread has said that,

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A guy who didn't think Bird was a good rebounder probably wasn't around when Bird played or doesn't know much about basketball.

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But he's not barely in the Top 50!!

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Dirk isn't clearly Top 20 and almost top 15 as you said. Dirk is somewhere in the 30-50 range.

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He's not equivalent to Dominique Wilkins!

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Without his ring, that's exactly where he was. Nique, Gervin, Pete. Great scorers. Big holes in their game.

Willis Reed
Kareem
Wilt
Bill Walton
Wes Unseld
Magic
Moses Malone
Larry
MJ
Hakeem
Timmy
Shaq
Kobe
Dirk

List of NBA players with a league MVP and Finals MVP.

Dirk beat 2 of the top 5 active NBA players, in their prime, IN THE FINALS, as alpha dog with no other all stars. He hit a finals game winner with an injured hand, a game sealer while sick, and engineered a 15 point comeback, all in the Finals.

He's still one of 4 NBA players to average 25 and 10 in the playoffs. You know, when it counts.

Trying to explain away a league MVP trophy as a "team effort" (uh, they all are) and lack of quality contenders (I guess guys like Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Timmy, Wade all sat out that year) is the weakest argument you can make, a huge reach, completely illogical, and downright embarrassing.

Dirk is easily top 25 all time based on overall resume. If you would seriously take the careers of every single one of those people on that list above Dirk, you know even less about basketball than I thought.

Adjust for pace and the Dirk vs Bird stats aren't so far off. Many more shots taken in the 80s. But stats are for losers. There's 10 players all-time with 10 All-NBA selections, an MVP and a Finals MVP. Kareem, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, Dirk, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wilt. That list transcends stats and show sustained greatness along with great single seasons. Add in some old-timers and some that fell a little short on the hardware and Dirk is still a top 20 all-time player. And he's still in his prime.

More funfacts and stats stolen from internet:

Only 4 teams in NBA history have won 10 straight 50 win seasons:
Russell's Celtics, Duncan's Spurs, Magic's Lakers, and Dirk's Mavs.

Only 3 players have put up 13 30+ elimination game performances:
Dirk, Wilt, Jerry West.

Only 4 players in NBA history have averaged 25/10 for their playoff career's:
Dirk (25.9/ 10.4), Hakeem, Pettit, Baylor.

Top 7 players ever in playoff PER:
Jordan, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Mikan, LBJ, Nowitzki.

* Dirk is top 8 alltime in playoff scoring per game and mathematically, if he continues close to the pace he is at can crack top 10 alltime in points scored.

* Only 5 teams ever in NBA history have won a title with only ONE All Nba performer and Dirk's team is one of them.

* Only 3 players have taken their team to the finals 2 times with no All Nba performer and Dirk is one of them.

I never said I thought he was a bad rebounder. I said Dirk was better, which he is statistically in the playoffs. I was surprised how high Bird was in the regular season is all. Like you said yourself he had McHale and Parish to contend with.

I state this statistic again which you keep ignoring. One of only 4 players ever in NBA HISTORY in the playoffs with an avg, of 25 points and 10 rebounds. But his rebounding numbers are "abhorrent". Whatever man.

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Willis Reed
Kareem
Wilt
Bill Walton
Wes Unseld
Magic
Moses Malone
Larry
MJ
Hakeem
Timmy
Shaq
Kobe
Dirk

List of NBA players with a league MVP and Finals MVP.

Dirk beat 2 of the top 5 active NBA players, in their prime, IN THE FINALS, as alpha dog with no other all stars. He hit a finals game winner with an injured hand, a game sealer while sick, and engineered a 15 point comeback, all in the Finals.

He's still one of 4 NBA players to average 25 and 10 in the playoffs. You know, when it counts.

Trying to explain away a league MVP trophy as a "team effort" (uh, they all are) and lack of quality contenders (I guess guys like Lebron, Nash, Kobe, Timmy, Wade all sat out that year) is the weakest argument you can make, a huge reach, completely illogical, and downright embarrassing.

Dirk is easily top 25 all time based on overall resume. If you would seriously take the careers of every single one of those people on that list above Dirk, you know even less about basketball than I thought.

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I hate the Mavs, so therefore I'm not a fan of Dirk at all, but this is 100% correct. I would have a difficult time naming 30 people who are without a doubt better than Dirk. The German can play

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Only 4 teams in NBA history have won 10 straight 50 win seasons:
Russell's Celtics, Duncan's Spurs, Magic's Lakers, and Dirk's Mavs.

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Three of those teams won 4+ titles. Which one didn't?

Dirk seems to be the king of obscure stats, or MFFL are the king of finding them. Bottom line, he was a one-dimensional scorer that has both extremely clutch and extremely choke moments on his resume. He is a fantastic scorer, but that doesn't make him better than dozens of guys that could play on both ends of the courts and put the ball on the floor.

25/10 in the playoffs is nice. But BFD. He is in with Hakeem (two titles and missed the playoffs in his prime), Pettit (one title) and Baylor (zero titles.)

So four guys, dozens and dozens of seasons, four titles. Probably not the stat I want to use to judge all-time greats. Nice little, stat, but so many numbers and so little success. I'll take Tim and Shaq's 23/12 with 4 titles club over the 25/10 club.

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If you would seriously take the careers of every single one of those people on that list above Dirk, you know even less about basketball than I thought.

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I made a list of 40 people. You pick 20, since one of your fellow MFFL said Dirk is easily top 20 and knocking on top 15. Judge apparently having reading problems again.

Obviously, Durant's career is just a couple seasons old, but the guy will be thought of much better than Dirk. So will Bron, Wade and probably Rose. But all those guys are in their 20s with a lot of career left. Dirk is on the tail end. Probably no scoring titles going to his name, which is his best talent. Dirk never even led the league in shooting.

Internet fan with the head shot.