I'm listening to the Scott Van Pelt show, and he is having a discussion right now about if the Lakers should go in another direction without Kobe. What say you TexAgs? I'm by no means a Lakers fan, but it is pretty obvious that the unit they have right now isn't a championship team. Do you cut/trade Kobe or do you keep him and continue to put pieces around him?

Kobe is one of the best scorers in basketball history and is only 33 iirc. That said, the Lakers need an enormously powerful coach like Phil Jackson to rein Kobe in and keep him from being a selfish jerk with the basketball.

The Lakers won't win again with Kobe unless Phil comes back. I believe they could win without him if they keep Gasol/Bynum and get another good SG. That duo of bigs is strong if the right coach/players utilize them.

Starting this postseason, I think his ego is writing checks his body can't cash. He used to be able to get away with the ball-hogging or taking a game off to pout because he could consistently come through on both ends when it counted. Now he seems to be getting more determined to hog all the clutch shots even as his ability to create good shots diminishes. The result is bad team chemistry and late-game collapses.

Getting rid of him is a viable option. I don't think it will happen in a million years, but from a basketball standpoint an argument can be made. Someone (Toronto, Washington, Charlotte would be funny but won't happen) will give up way too much. Kobe gets to keep hoisting up 25-30 shots a game and being BMOC while the Lakers can give Bynum a shot as the legit star of the team, pick up a couple good players and picks, and increase their flexibility in clutch situations.


All that said, Bynum needs to change his attitude for this team to go anywhere. There's something wrong in LA... they've ended up with tons of talent and no good locker room guys.

Kobe is the only player in the NBA with a NTC last I checked. Trading him isn't an option.

Even if they had the choice, the Lakers should keep Kobe. Trade Bynum for pieces or put a package together for Dwight Howard. Ramon Sessions looked like the worst player in the NBA last night. Gasol is emotionally fragile and Artest can't be counted on.

Heck, no. Kobe is top 5 all time, and he is still producing. Bynum is the best center in the league. Sessions is the athletic point guard they have desperately needed. Give those guys some more time together, and they are sure-things to win it all next year.

Judge, Kobe does indeed have a no trade clause.

but they could amnesty him

Next year, the salary cap is going to be ~$60 million.

$30 million will go to Kobe.
Pau Gasol will get $19 million.

They are going to have to do something with one of those guys if they want to be competitive.

They should amnesty him. His contract is insanely stupid, even for a player of his caliber.

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Starting this postseason, I think his ego is writing checks his body can't cash. He used to be able to get away with the ball-hogging or taking a game off to pout because he could consistently come through on both ends when it counted. Now he seems to be getting more determined to hog all the clutch shots even as his ability to create good shots diminishes. The result is bad team chemistry and late-game collapses.

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Spot on. When Kobe tries to take over the games, they lose what little continuity they have. His team mates just seem lost.

The Laker problem isn't talent. It is effort and chemistry, and with Phil's presence, they got swept out of the playoffs last year.

It also doesn't help that since Kupchak put all his money into to using draft picks as trading chips to acquire players, he has to go cheap on free agents now. Their last first round pick to stay with the team for any amount of time was Jordan Farmer (2006).

First rounders since 2007-
2007 - Javaris Crittendon (traded to Grizzlies)
2008 - Trade to Grizzlies
2009 - Toney Douglas (traded to Knicks)
2010 - Trade to Grizzlies
2011 - Trade to Nets
2012 - Trade to Cavs

They have failed to get strong role players that are on a rookie salary. That is hurting them.

[This message has been edited by Iowaggie (edited 5/22/2012 4:02p).]

They should amnesty Bryant, he alone takes up half their cap space next year (whopping $28M), but they don't have the guts to do it. And you can't trade him because of his no-trade clause.

So taking that option out, if I were them I would amnesty Artest and try to send Gasol to Atlanta for Josh Smith and Marvin Williams, a trade that I think helps both teams. Finally, I would pick up Bynum's option and then shop him and Sessions for a top-flight young PG and competent C. Maybe pull off a sign-and-trade of Bynum + Sessions for Deron Williams + B. Lopez. Or Bynum + Sessions for Rondo + Garnett. Or maybe OKC during the summer realizes they need a post presence to win a title, and will listen to Bynum + Sessions for Westbrook + Perkins?

Say they pull off a S&T with the desperate Nets who hypothetically find out Deron isn't re-signing with them. A starting 5 of Deron, Kobe, Marvin, Josh Smith, and Lopez has instantly transformed the Lakers into a much younger and more athletic team. It also clears the post for Kobe to complete his evolution to a 2-guard who lives almost entirely in the post area launching fadeaways a la post-retirement MJ. You have Deron as a #2 scoring option breaking the defense down, getting everyone good shots, and taking pressure off Kobe. Marvin at 39% 3-PT spacing the floor, and Josh Smith and Lopez grabbing boards, cutting to the glass, running the floor in transition, etc.

I don't think the above makes them title favorites or anything, because I think Kobe's days as being the #1 guy on a title-winning team are over, but it would certainly be better than what they have now.

[This message has been edited by simplebay (edited 5/22/2012 4:32p).]

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Bynum + Sessions for Westbrook + Perkins?

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I laugh.

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Kobe is one of the best scorers in basketball history and is only 33 iirc.

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Kobe has played 1381 games and 51000 minutes. It doesn't matter how young you are when you have that kind of mileage. That's why his game is more fadeaways and pull up jumpers than explosive dunks. He doesn't have the explosion anymore.

Kobe has already played 1000 more minutes than Shaq did in Shaq's entire career. Think about that. Remember how Reggie Miller played until he was 40 and was never hurt? Kobe will pass him next year in minutes, assuming that he doesn't get hurt. Kobe has already played 3000 more minutes than Jordan did. He has played 2000 more minutes than Hakeem. Heck, Kobe has only played 800 less minutes than Robert Parish, who retired when he was 44.


I think if you used the Amnesty on Kobe, he would sign with the Clippers for the league minimum and average like 35ppg just to prove the point to the Lakers of **** YOU.

Kobe is still the best 2 guard in the league. The Lakers need to restructure his last 2 years to be more cap friendly (add on another 2 years) and surround him with some talent.

[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 5/22/2012 5:14p).]

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Kobe's legs are gone.

Kobe went 42 and 5 yesterday. He couldve easily won the scoring title.

God i hope his legs are gone next year too

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The Lakers need to restructure his last 2 years to be more cap friendly (add on another 2 years) and surround him with some talent.

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The issue isn't talent... they have as much talent on the starting 5 as anyone. They need to restructure Bynum's and Kobe's attitudes, and get courage for Gasol, a heart for Ron Artest, and a brain for Mike Brown. And then they need to pay Kobe half as much so they can afford a bench.

Boo boo the new CBA does not allow for restructuring. And the tax penalties are much worse.

The new CBA was pretty much aimed at the Lakers. But it shouldnt be too bad, even with revenue sharing to lower market teams like the spurs, the lakers just kicked off their new deal with time warner, moving away from KCAL

Kobe played way too many minutes this year.

Kobe wont win another without a big time #2 scorer. His legs are done, he can do nothing late in games late in the season.

Against OKC:
He missed 74 shots in 5 games.
He Shot 11% from 3pt

5 mins to play:
35% from the field
4 turnovers
He made 5 baskets in 4 games (no 4th quarter for him in game 1 blowout)


He done

[This message has been edited by claym711 (edited 5/23/2012 9:54a).]

A lot of that can be explained by the fact that he played the most minutes in his career (nearly 40 minutes per game) in a strike-shortened season on a team where he is disproportionately forced to carry the offensive load.

A smarter coach would have limited his minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs. (ahem, Poppovich, ahem)

[This message has been edited by HotardAg07 (edited 5/23/2012 9:50a).]

If the Lakers amnestied Kobe, LA would burn. But it would still be the smartest move they could make in a rebuilding sense.

Don't fall into the trap of looking at stats when you haven't watched the games. Kobe's shooting percentage is the result of the Laker's offensive scheme (or lack there of). Half the time they screw around until there's only 5 seconds on the shot click, pass it to Kobe and he has to put up a circus shot. It is amazing he makes as many as he does. I would contend that he is still the best difficult shot maker in the league. Kobe isn't the player he used to be, but he is still the best 2 guard in the NBA.

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on a team where he is disproportionately forced to carry the offensive load.

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This is pure bull****. When you have both Gasol AND Bynum, no one is forcing you to carry the load. It's Kobe and his ball-hogging massive ego and career-long obsession of trying to be greater than Jordan that drives him to try to do it all, then when he fails he blames everyone else. The guy is a head case and a terrible leader. Not even Phil could get Kobe to consistently play through Gasol and Bynum, and it damn near cost them the 'ship in 2010. Kobe would rather be the main guy and lose in the 2nd round and point fingers about how changes need to be made than be a co-#1 or #2 option and win championships, that's been his flaw his entire career. Kobe could have observed Duncan and learned a thing or 2 over the years about allowing other people to share the load. The Lakers are stuck. When a guy is on a maximum contract for another 2 years hogging over 40% of your cap space, deteriorating and aging, declining in skill, plus is as stubborn and hard-headed as Kobe is, it's a bad combination and pretty much ties your hands.

Kobe's legs are gone? Dude was catching reverse alley-oops in traffic. **** outta here.

Dear God, the talk of using amnesty on Kobe is completely insane. The man won the Lakers 5 titles and will go down as one of the greatest players of all time. The only rebuilding the Lakers will do is restructuring his contract and cleaning shop around him (Gasol or Bynum, Mike Brown, bringing in new FA's, etc.).

Also, Kobe is just fine. Watching him, even at this age, I always find myself amazed at the difficult shots he makes. Their last game he was catching alley oops and driving to the lane. He isn't done by a long shot. What he needs is a coach who can level with him and get him to stop taking so many dumb difficult shots and hogging the ball. Part of that though is getting him some teammates he can trust (whoever that may be).

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The only rebuilding the Lakers will do is restructuring his contract and cleaning shop around him (Gasol or Bynum, Mike Brown, bringing in new FA's, etc.).

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CBA does not allow restructuring. They can cut him or trade him or pay him his $30mm.

I wonder what the Lakers would have done this year if Stern wouldn't have vetoed the Paul trade. Lakers would have Paul, Kobe, Artest, Odom and Gasol in the lineup. I know Odom fell off a cliff in Dallas, but Kobe might have gotten him to produce in LA.

Now, assuming they keep Bynum, they need to trade Gasol and improve the PG, SF and PF positions. Artest has had his moments but the guy is BSC and can't be relied upon. The bench also sucks and needs to be completely retooled. I think Kobe still has enough in the tank for another year or two, but the Lakers GM has his work cut out to plug all the holes and get the team competing for a title before Kobe hangs em up.

I also read somewhere that Kobe's estimated monetary value to the Lakers is about three times what they pay him in salary.

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Also, Kobe is just fine. Watching him, even at this age, I always find myself amazed at the difficult shots he makes. Their last game he was catching alley oops and driving to the lane. He isn't done by a long shot. What he needs is a coach who can level with him and get him to stop taking so many dumb difficult shots and hogging the ball. Part of that though is getting him some teammates he can trust (whoever that may be).

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That's kind of the problem... he takes way too many difficult shots. Championship teams win by creating easy shots. Sometimes you need one or two tough shots to win, but you're not going to get anywhere when you have to do it all game.

Phil Jackson couldn't get him to stop taking dumb, difficult shots; Jackson said as much in his autobiography. If a guy with a ring on every finger can't, then who can?

If Kobe can't trust Bynum (56% from the floor) or Gasol (50%), then I don't know who he is going to trust... he certainly shouldn't trust himself, since he only shoots 43% from the floor (30th among qualified guards this season) and 30% from 3 (80th or next to last among qualified guards).


Kobe is still a good to great player, but he is extremely inefficient. His numbers are the result of throwing up a ton of shots. I would bet that if he started taking 5 fewer shots per game and looking to get other players involved even in the 4th quarter, his scoring would only go down a point or two but his efficiency would rise and the team would start to play better on offense.

I love this gif, perfectly captures the state of the Lakers franchise and how much it sucks to be in charge of fixing it.