Greatest SF of all-time? Greatest player ever?

Here's Durant vs Bird in their 5th season:
http://bkref.com/tiny/MOWKz

1984 Bird, Age 27: 24/10/7 on .49/.25/.89, 24 PER, .55 TS%
Bird's 5th season was 1984 when he won his 1st MVP and 2nd Championship. He dominates Durant statistically in passing, defense and offensive rebounding.

2011 Durant, Age 23 (23!): 28/8/3 on .49/.39/.86, 26 PER, .61 TS%
Durant dominates Bird in 3 point shooting, free throw attempts, and TS%. Both are very similar in all other stats.

In terms of mental intangibles Durant reminds me of young Dirk pre-2005. He's loyal to the franchise and his teammates, and he is able to dominate games offensively but hasn't fully developed the alpha dog killer instinct and risks deferring too much to his co-star. He also looks to have a shot at Dirk's longevity due to his playing style and commitment to conditioning.

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Greatest SF of all-time? Greatest player ever?

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what are we calling jordan? sg or sf?

Durant vs Lebron vs Jordan, cumulative stats through their first 5 seasons:

http://bkref.com/tiny/xNFaA

Ages after 5 seasons:

Durant 23 (2011)
Lebron 23 (2008)
Jordan 25 (1989)

Cumulative scoring averages:
Jordan 32.6 PPG
LeBron 27.3 PPG
Durant 26.3 PPG

Jordan is clearly above both of them overall. No one had won a title by their 5th seasons, and only Jordan had an MVP.

Waaaayyyy too early for all this. At least let him take on lebron in the finals first.

Lebron is the better overall basketball player... right now and in the past. Durant will never be the defensive player or passer that LBJ is.

List of youngest Finals MVP Winners:

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1979-80 NBA Magic Johnson 20
1981-82 NBA Magic Johnson 22
1998-99 NBA Tim Duncan 22
1970-71 NBA Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 23
1976-77 NBA Bill Walton 24
1978-79 NBA Dennis Johnson 24
2005-06 NBA Dwyane Wade 24
2006-07 NBA Tony Parker 24
1980-81 NBA Cedric Maxwell 25
1988-89 NBA Joe Dumars 25

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This is Durant's big chance to leap ahead of Jordan/Lebron in something significant. None of these MVPs listed were already established as the veteran superstar leaders of their teams when they won, except for Walton.

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What is Durants ceiling?

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Heaven

Feels like yesterday when lots of Ags were shouting bust on him because he didn't bench much at the NBA Draft workout in Chicago.

The Bird comparison is interesting. Durant is a better scorer* but bird was better at almost everything else**. Close on all fronts.

* 3 point line was brand new and teams did not use it..... in fact I think Larry played 1 year without the 3 point line.

** Larry was an older more physical player. Larry had an pretty short career (10 healthy years).

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lots of Ags were shouting bust on him because he didn't bench much at the NBA Draft workout in Chicago.

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That still makes me laugh.... a 19 year old 200+lb man (college athlete) can't bench 185. That's still pretty sad. You lose your man card for that.

My guess is ATM can't do 185??




[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/8/2012 7:29a).]

Ceiling is best SF of all-time and top 10 player all-time.

As stated, Jordan's individual stats/awards combined with his rings is just ridiculous. Head and shoulders above everyone in his era and he played in what was likely the best era in NBA history in terms of competition.

I think Durant has a real shot at being the best offensive player ever. His overall game is solid but he does not dominate (or seem to have the ability to) any other facet(sp?) of the game like Jordan and even James.

He doesn't have the speed or strength of LeBron, but he could develop a better in the defensive end especially if he utilizes his long wingspan

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He doesn't have the speed or strength of LeBron, but he could develop a better in the defensive end especially if he utilizes his long wingspan

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durant also has the most unstoppable shot in the league, and shoots free throws at a 95% clip, which is handy considering he can drive hard to the basket.

I really want to see what Durant does in a full series being guarded by LeBron. That should be an awesome duel.

It will also be interesting to see if Durant guards LeBron on the other end for most of the game or whether Brooks puts someone else on LBJ. If guarded by Durant, LBJ should take him in the post over and over like last night.

Woo! Interweb shots fired!

Durant could have an incredible legacy when it's all said and done. The NBA and the way it's fans treat player's legacy is so fickle though. All it takes is the Thunder to not come out on top this season and the Lakers reloading and running off 2 or 3 in a row again for the title of this thread to change to 'Is Lebron the next Dominique Wilkins?'

I agree that Durant is a better scorer than LeBron but doesn't have the same all around game that LeBron has. Lebron is the better player of the two as of now.

In an OKC-Miami matchup I would expect LeBron to guard Durant and Thabo Sefolosha to guard LeBron. I think Sef is only an inch shorter than LeBron.

Durant versus LeBron will make up for the missed connection of Kobe versus LeBron a couple of seasons ago. Should be incredible.

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and he played in what was likely the best era in NBA history in terms of competition.

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The 90's =\= best NBA era

More on Durant vs Bird - Durant was close to his first 50/40/90/20 season (50%FG, 40%3P, 90%FT, 20PPG). That's only been done 3 times (Bird 87 & 88, Dirk 07). Bird didn't really embrace the 3 pointer until 1985. Durant could start racking up 50/40/90/25 seasons or even a 50/40/90/30.

I thought Nash did it once?

Nevermind. Didn't see the 20 PPG.

Probably 6'11"

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\
That still makes me laugh.... a 19 year old 200+lb man (college athlete) can't bench 185. That's still pretty sad

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For a man of Durants build, as slim and long as his arms are, not really. I'd like to see what you could have done with his build. My guess is at the time he did that he only had half a year of weight training, as I'm sure he didn't do much in high school.

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For a man of Durants build, as slim and long as his arms are, not really. I'd like to see what you could have done with his build.

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I was just as thin.
Graduated HS at 6'3" 142... could bench 205 my junior year... at the end of my senior year was probably a little weaker, but I could do 185.

[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/8/2012 3:08p).]

Good for you, you're above average for your weight. Doesn't make it sad, that's my point. For Durants build, that was probably about average.

And what's with the mad face.

[This message has been edited by beerad12man (edited 6/8/2012 3:10p).]

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My guess is ATM can't do 185??

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I am adding beerad12man to that list.

Oh, and 6-3 isn't comparable to Durants arms either, so you really can't use that anyways. It's hard to say what Durant should be able to do and that what he did was said. That's all I'm saying.


[This message has been edited by beerad12man (edited 6/8/2012 3:12p).]

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Oh, and 6-3 isn't comparable to Durants arms either,

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Whatever. He weighed 215lbs at 81" tall at the combine, I was 142 lbs and 75" tall. Do the math. I was a lot thinner. His arms are longer, relatively, but his mass should make up for the the difference. My wing span was about 6'5".

He wasn't strong enough to lift 30lbs less than his own body weight!


[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/8/2012 3:24p).]

Sorry for derailing the thread.

He is a great player and still extremely young. He has a real shot of being one of the all time greats with a chance of being the GOAT.

Who cares if he can't bench he doesn't need it.

"cares"?
I find it entertaining, funny and interesting.
I guess I care.

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I think Durant has a real shot at being the best offensive player ever. His overall game is solid but he does not dominate (or seem to have the ability to) any other facet(sp?) of the game like Jordan and even James.

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OMG really? If you are looking at offensive stats why not Chamberlain? Not sure that can be touched.

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The 90's =\= best NBA era

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Yeah, I'm gonna have to sorta disagree with you there

Wilt?
Jordan and wilt both averaged 30 points per game for their careers. I pick Jordan over wilt as an offensive player. Not old enough to have watched Wilt, but is offensive game was limited.

I was thinking more along the lines of a 50/90/40 guy. Both Wilt and Jordan were not.