... except Jordan, who would it be? The only parameter (so far) is that you're guaranteed 10 years of good health for this player.

My top five (subject to change)...
1/1A - Bird/Magic - Can't go wrong with either one. When healthy, they were the best players in the game.
3 - Hakeem
4 - Timmy
5 - Kobe

Those five aren't meant to be a team, they're just to show who I'd pick if I had a 1-5 draft position.

Shaquille O'Neal.

1a: Dream (I know I'm biased, but the dude was a god)

1b: Magic (assuming he was never diagnosed w/ HIV)

tim duncan over shaq? are you insane?

i'll take shaq any day of the week

But Yankees is right. Duncan is a little too high on that list IMO. Definitely top 10 for sure, but he isn't top 5, especially if it comes down to Duncan and Shaq

I would have Shaq at 6 (maybe 7). He was awesome, but I just think that Timmy and Hakeem were more skilled at both ends of the court.

Shaq could not shoot free throws so therefore was a liability at the end of close games.

Shaq vs. Timmy depends on how heavily you weight locker room presence, demeanor, lack of distractions, work ethic, and intelligence.

In pure ability to put the basketball in the hoop and block shots Shaq wins, but when you add in team defense, all-around skills, and the other things I mentioned, the picture isn't so clear. Neither one is a bad choice, so it probably depends a lot on what kind of coach and other players you can put around him.

I'd go Duncan because he's a great example and does all the little things to make a team better, but I'm not going to argue if someone else puts Shaq first.



In terms of all the players of the past 35 years, I'm not qualified because I didn't start watching basketball seriously until 2000 or so.

Magic
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron
Dream

quote:

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Shaq could not shoot free throws so therefore was a liability at the end of close games.

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please, tell me how tim duncan wasn't a liability with his career 69% FT shooting? they both sucked at free throws, but shaq sucked more. woopty doo. Duncan couldnt dominate on offense like shaq did, and was much worse from the field percentage wise, too

Magic

Akeem - best of the bigs, which is the best way to build from scratch

Actually, Duncan's 69% free throw shooting means that fouling him for two shots costs you 1.38 points. With Shaq's 53% career ft% means fouling him costs 1.06 points. Given that the NBA averages 1.1 points per possession, fouling Shaq results in 4% fewer expected points per possession, while fouling Duncan results in 25.5% more expected points.

Fouling Shaq is a winning play; fouling Duncan is a losing play. That's the difference.


Obviously Shaq shot a higher percentage from the field. That's an undeniable advantage over Duncan, but there are mitigating factors. For example, Duncan's percentage is lower because he takes a lot of 17-18 foot jump shots. Duncan is able to spread the court, creating more opportunities in the paint for other players. Parker has been one of the most prolific scorers in the paint for much of his career; that might not have been possible with opposing shotblockers able to hang out in the lane without repercussions. That's something Shaq could never do. He was a great scorer, but not very versatile.

Again, I totally understand picking Shaq over Duncan, but there are things Duncan brings to a team that Shaq never could and it's silly to argue otherwise.

Magic
Durant (no joke)
Bird


Gap


Shaq
Duncan


Smaller gap


Kobe
Hakeem
Kareem
Lebron


Gap


Dirk
The Admiral
Karl Malone


Gap


Dr. J
Clyde
Ewing
Barkley
Moses M
A bunch of others

Probably forgot a few players, that's just off the top of my head

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but there are things Duncan brings to a team that Shaq never could and it's silly to argue otherwise.

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nobody was arguing otherwise.

I haven't sat down and made a list of players, but given this:

quote:

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The only parameter (so far) is that you're guaranteed 10 years of good health for this player

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I think Grant Hill or Penny could sneak into the top 25 or 30, which I think is interesting b/c neither of them are top 25 players from the past 35 years when you take into account their actual career.

edit: typo

[This message has been edited by Bill S. Preston, Esq (edited 6/13/2012 3:20p).]

Yankees:

I never stated I would pick Duncan either. My choice would be Kareem. He never shot below 50% from the field in his career except his last season when he was closing in on 90. He had an unblockable shot that he hit for a very high percentage from wide ranges. He rebounded and took away the paint defensively.

I never liked the guy because he was a whiner but the guy could play basketball.

Gimme 10 years of a healthy (in shape) Shaq

I accidentally overlooked Kareem. I'm not sure where he goes in my list though. I guess I'd put him at #5 (bumping Kobe out), but you could make an argument for him being higher. In looking at this stats, I didn't realize until now how few games he actually missed.

DP

[This message has been edited by Texas A&M (edited 6/13/2012 3:18p).]

With 10 guaranteed healthy years Yao should be included somewhere on the list of top 25 prospects

Yao is interesting, but even with 10 years of guaranteed health I think he's still definitely behind the following big men:

Shaq
Duncan
Robinson
Hakeem
Kareem

Then I would say he's also behind these guys, but you could make an argument otherwise:
Moses
K Malone
Barkley
Ewing

leaving him in the mix with the likes of:
KG
McHale
D Howard
Mourning

Shaq if he had a coach that could get him to use his full potential. Otherwise, Duncan.

I'm operating under the assumption that all we know is that 10 years of healthy production are guaranteed.

Absent of coach, front office, teammates, city, system, etc. - this is the player you would take based on how they entered the NBA (straight out of high school, from overseas, or after four years in D1).

Outside of Jordan, the player I feel most comfortable with if I had to dump him into a random scenario and still expect multiple championships would be Shaq.

HNIC, if you're basing your decision solely based on the state of the player when they entered the NBA, would you take Shaq over Jordan? I think solely based abilities and projections at the time preceding their entrance in to the NBA, I feel more comfortable with Shaq than I do Jordan.

No. It wouldn't be based on the state of the player upon their entering the NBA. I'm just using the time/method in which they entered the league as the jumping off point for the 10 years.

I think if you were using the state of the player as they were entering the NBA as the lone piece of information to go on, then the thread would turn into a "Who was the best prospect entering the NBA?" thread.

The OP said 10 guaranteed years of health. Not sure if he meant their 10 best years or something else.

So going off what we've seen of each player talent wise during their tenure in the NBA and then using their rookie year as the start of their healthy 10-year timeline (IE, Kobe Bryant's 10 years would start when he was 17 while David Robinson's would start when he was 24) is how I'm judging who to pick in this thread.

Not sure if that make sense.

Is Shaq in the league I am playing against or is it post Shaq?

I take him due to obvious match up issues; otherwise, if it is after Shaq, I take Magic/Bird/KD/ or Lebron first.... in no particular order.... Magic might be first.

Everyone had to carry two large goons on their team to deal with shaq.

I think we need bench press numbers before we make this decision.

dp

[This message has been edited by TheDino (edited 6/13/2012 6:18p).]

The always elusive triple post.

[This message has been edited by TheDino (edited 6/13/2012 6:17p).]

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I think we need bench press numbers before we make this decision.

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I'd take Duncan over Shaq because Shaq would leave after two seasons.

It would be close between BBDP and Hostile.

TheDino