Dream or Shaq

Timmy or Shaq...

TD is the better overall player and defender... but Shaq presented so many issues for the other team its hard to pass him up...

Then Magic/Bird/Kobe in no particular order

You can have your big men, I'm going with the guys who brings home the hardware: Robert Horry

... or Derek Fisher.

I would take Shaq. If he would have had the work ethic and dedication of a guy like Durant, I think he would have been the greatest player ever and won at least 7-8 titles. I seriously think he only reached about 80% of his potential even at his peak, and yet he still had a Hall of Fame career and was the most physically dominant player of my lifetime. The guy was an absolute freak of nature.

I think you have to consider longevity of their career. Bird and Magic both only played about 13 seasons before health (back and AIDS) got them.

Shaq got 19 seasons, most of which were healthy and productive.

Duncan has around 17 seasons, most of which have been healthy and productive.

Kobe has had one of the longest careers ever, since he was drafted out of high school. His early years were not as productive as Duncan's early years (since Duncan had 4 years of college), but he has been amazingly long-lasting. I think he needs only 5 or 6 more seasons to tie Parrish for the longest NBA career, and he has only shown the faintest signs of slowing down. It's amazing, really.

I think I'd go with Shaq or Duncan, but I'm not sure.



(I am a huge Dream fan. At his peak, he was as good as anyone that's ever played the game. Ever. But he did not have the career of the others on the list.)









[This message has been edited by Whistling For Flies (edited 6/14/2012 9:28a).]

The more I think about it, I go with Magic first.

The guy was the best PG ever, could have been in the top 3 of all time at the:
2, 3, or 4 and probably top 15 at the 5.

Similar with James or Bird to a lesser extent.

Some of this depends on who we would compete against but you can't go wrong with Magic.

Guys that I would give a second look at due to injury/potential;

Bill Walton.... "His listed adult playing height was 6 feet 11 inches; it has been reported that Walton was actually taller (7 feet 2 inches, or more), but did not like being categorized as a seven-footer"
The guy was constantly injured and still relatively productive and took his team to the finals in his first healthy season.

Len Bias???

And of course I have a soft spot for Pete. If he had played his career with the 3 point line, he might be viewed differently. He shot 75% from behind the arc the one year he played with it.

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He shot 75% from behind the arc the one year he played with it.

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Pistol Pete was 10-15 lifetime from behind the arc. There was only one season he played with a 3-point line.

Oh, 10-15? Nothing to see here.

And 10-15 does NOT equal 75%.

That was when he was hobbled by injuries. When talking about players that were helped or hurt by the era they played in, Pete is almost always considered the one player really hurt by playing when he did and if he had played 20-30 years later, he would have been one of the greatest ever.

Meanwhile a 6'8 210lb guy would never dominate the paint in today's game like Russell did back when there were a half dozen teams.

Bill Walton is a really good choice. Disastrous injuries, but a great player when healthy even though he never really got to hit his stride with a whole healthy season in the NBA.

If you could get a 22-year old Arvydas Sabonis healthy for 10 years, you would have to consider it.

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And 10-15 does NOT equal 75%.

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I did not remember the 10-15 just a ridiculous %. 67 is close to 75?? Or at least is is for me.... its above 25%.

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Meanwhile a 6'8 210lb guy would never dominate the paint in today's game like Russell did back when there were a half dozen teams.

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I think the right 6'8" guy could still dominate for a limited window (5 years)... ignoring the 210 part (due to better understandings of training and "supplements"). Ben Wallace "dominated" a couple of seasons defensively in "today's Game".

Russell was more than 6'8... at least based on the pics of him with current players. The heights were probably more accurate then and almost every team had guys that would be called 6'11 or more now.
I think Russell would do very well today. He "dominated" Wilt.


[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/14/2012 1:59p).]

Ben Wallace also had about 40 lbs of muscle on Russell




Russell's body is most similar to Durant. Can you imagine Durant dominating the paint in today's game?


[This message has been edited by Guitarsoup (edited 6/14/2012 2:28p).]

Yes; thus:

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ignoring the 210 part (due to better understandings of training and "supplements")

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I think it is reasonable that Russell would be listed at 6'10"+ and with today's training be 240+.
I don't think Russell is the same as KD. I bet he could bench 185 .... today.

DJ is only 6'9.75. Kevin Love is 6'7.75" and Blake Griffin is 6'8.5".
Per www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=2008&source=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=





[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/14/2012 2:34p).]

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DJ is only 6'9.75. Kevin Love is 6'7.75" and Blake Griffin is 6'8.5".

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DJ weighed 250 entering the league
Love weighed 255 entering the league
Griffin weighed 248 entering the league

All have 40+ lbs on Russell. If you plopped Russell in the league now from the height of his career, he wouldn't be a superstar.

At 210, you are probably correct. That pic you posted looks closer to 250 than 210.

Durant weighted 216 at the combine 4 years ago. Assuming the same height:







I think BR would be as good or better than BW was.

[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/14/2012 2:59p).]

Instead of asking for bench press numbers I should have asked for weights. Damn.

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[This message has been edited by BBDP (edited 6/14/2012 3:36p).]

With the way they call fouls for perimeter players these days, I would have to pass over the bigs for Magic and then Kobe

In no order:

Shaq (only non-versatile player on the my list)

Dream (what if he and Drexler had played their careers together?)

Magic (unlike Kobe, would've made any team a championship contender)

Durant (assuming his trajectory continues for the next 5 years, it may be OKC that has "not 3, not 4...")

Lebron (over Kobe Bryant??? Well, yes. I think Lebron could have some titles too if he has Shaq, Gasol, Bynum, and Phil Jackson. And, perhaps I'm forgetting just how good Kobe was around the rim in his prime. But I also recall how mediocre LA was when it was a one-man show with Kobe.)

Gotta be a big so I go Dream then Shaquille. Can't go wrong with either.

The Big Fundamental over Shaq. Timmy can bring alot more than just being inside the paint.

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The Big Fundamental over Shaq. Timmy can bring alot more than just being inside the paint.

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If anyone chooses Tim over Shaq then you're obviously a spurs fan and that's ok.

Edit for emoticon not sure why it's that face

[This message has been edited by Mr.bond (edited 6/18/2012 12:32p).]

Depends what you get with Shaq. If you could get 10 straight years of super-motivated Shaq, then I would probably take that over anyone, including Jordan. But over the course of his career, how much was he like that? Most of 2000. But he was up and down. He was a bad teammate (how many teams were happy to see him go? LA, Miami, Phoenix, Cleveland, Boston?) Do you take that into consideration? Or do you just take the over the top amazing performances for a year, stretch it out over a decade and choose?

1. Magic
2. Duncan

Shaq was a FORCE from 1994 to nearly 2006.

Most of the time. He also was a locker room problem that forced the Lakers to trade him away for Lamar Odom and Brian Grant.

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He also was a locker room problem that forced the Lakers to trade him away

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He was only half of that problem.... the older half.

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Most of the time. He also was a locker room problem that forced the Lakers to trade him away for Lamar Odom and Brian Grant.

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He was a three time finals MVP. I don't care.

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He was a three time finals MVP. I don't care.

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And a 5-time "Get rid of him/make sure he knows he isn't welcome back next year"

maybe........but only after the "10 years" which is outside the scope of this discussion.

I'd still rather build around the talent of Magic or LeBron.