quote:

---

Kobe deserves his 1st Team spot this year. That team was in disarray with 4 other players who had been All-NBA players.

---

He didn't help the situation.

You can blame Kobe for a lot of things throughout his career. But blaming him for this season? Come on, man.

I guess injuries kept Parker out but when he was on the court, he was the best PG in the NBA this season and there is no denying that so yeah.

Duncan made All-NBA 1st team 15 years ago and this year. Kareem did the same thing- 15 year spread between 1971 and 1986.

Duncan has 10 first-team selections behind only Kobe and Karl with 11. He has 14 total selections, behind only Kobe and Kareem with 15.

Duncan also has the NBA record with most All-Defense selections with 14. Next on the list are Kobe and Garnett with 12. (Neither were selected this year.)

quote:

---

I guess injuries kept Parker out but when he was on the court, he was the best PG in the NBA this season and there is no denying that so yeah.

---

Westbrook and Paul both had good seasons. You could pick any of the three and be right.

If Parker played 80+ games there would be no argument. He would be 1st team PG.

Injuries kept him out.

quote:

---

If Parker played 80+ games there would be no argument. He would be 1st team PG.

Injuries kept him out.

---

Chris Paul played 4 more games than Tony Parker this year and made first team.

Last year, Kobe Bryant played EIGHT less games than Tony Parker did and he made first team.

Does not compute.

You realize the media votes on these right? Some players actually have to work to get enough voted. CP3 is portrayed as the best PG in the game by all the media outlets therefore gets votes.

Parker was better than Paul this year.

Kobe Bryant I don't even have to explain.

I think it is a big market-small market thing. Put Paul on the Spurs this year and Parker on the Showtime Clippers and Parker makes first team. Switch Paul and Westbrook and you have the same thing.

Probably right about that.

Harden was the 4th best player in the league in win shares and wins produced. In his position (guard) only one guy (CP3) finished with more wins produced and win shares in the entire league. None of the other guys who finished higher than his had better per 48 minutes stats either.

But at least the basketball is better than baseball. Miguel Cabrera's not winning MVPs here.

paul made the nba first team as a hornet, too

Chris Paul has more first team All NBA selections than he has playoff series wins.

I would be curious to know what other players have that distinction.

Paul made it with the Hornets averaging 21p/11.7a/2.7s/4r while shooting 49%/37%/85%. He led the league in assists and steals. No one else was even debatably close. Nash and Deron were below him in points, assists, steals and rebounds and both had more turnovers than Paul.

The year he got it with the Hornets, no one else was even close.

Here's the updated all time selections list.

Duncan with a huge move to 3rd all-time, tying Malone and Shaq. Kobe now shares 1st all time and will probably retire as the all time leader. Dirk missed his chance to move above the pack into 6th place by himself and may be done making this list. Same with Garnett.


Player Total Selections

Kobe Bryant 15
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 15
Tim Duncan 14
Karl Malone 14
Shaquille O'Neal 14
Dirk Nowitzki 12
Bob Cousy 12
Julius Erving 12
Hakeem Olajuwon 12
Dolph Schayes 12
Jerry West 12
Charles Barkley 11
John Havlicek 11
Michael Jordan 11
Bob Pettit 11
Oscar Robertson 11
Bill Russell 11
John Stockton 11
Rick Barry 10
Elgin Baylor 10
Larry Bird 10
Wilt Chamberlain 10
Magic Johnson 10
David Robinson 10
Kevin Garnett 9
George Gervin 9
Gary Payton 9
Lebron James 8
Moses Malone 8

[This message has been edited by Internetfan02 (edited 5/23/2013 4:34p).]

Kobe!

wrong thread

[This message has been edited by Sher Thing (edited 5/23/2013 5:47p).]

quote:

---

Kobe now shares 1st all time and will probably retire as the all time leader

---

We still don't know if Kobe will be able to come back from the injury and be as good as he once was.

And LeBron will probably get it from Kobe. LeBron has 9 selections and is 28.

quote:

---

We still don't know if Kobe will be able to come back from the injury and be as good as he once was.

---

All he has to do is get in the discussion and he'll get the votes.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Kobe now shares 1st all time and will probably retire as the all time leader

---

We still don't know if Kobe will be able to come back from the injury and be as good as he once was

---

The older perennial all-nba types usually get at least 1 final selection mostly on reputation.

[This message has been edited by Internetfan02 (edited 5/24/2013 10:13a).]

quote:

---

And LeBron will probably get it from Kobe. LeBron has 9 selections and is 28.

---

kobe also had 9 selections by age 28 in 2007. Lebron will have to further adapt his game as he gets older as kobe has done.

FYI Durant is one year behind the pace. His first selection was at age 21 while lebron and Kobe started at age 20

Sidebar: Duncan (1st team) and Parker (2nd team) make a combined 22.1mm this year.

quote:

---

kobe also had 9 selections by age 28 in 2007. Lebron will have to further adapt his game as he gets older as kobe has done.

---

I'd argue that Lebron has already prepared himself for the decline of his athleticism. The two things that older players usually add to their offensive arsenal are better outside shooting and a post game, and Lebron has already added both. He has also perfected controlling the pace and conserving his energy for important points in the game, and he has rebounding, defense, and passing to fall back on as well. Barring catastrophic injury, Lebron is set up for many more years as an elite player.

This may hurt some Laker feelings, but Lebron is now a better shooter than Bryant. He was 41% from three this season, and Bryant's career best was 38%. Probably the most impressive stat about Lebron is that he has improved his FG% every season but 1, and that year was a virtual tie with the previous year. He went from 41.7% his first season to 56.5% this season, an improvement of just under 15%. Bryant has never broken 47%.

Ridiculous. The difference between LeBron's and Kobe's FG percentages and their respective changes over the years are not indicative of one player being better than another. Not even sure why people are still comparing the two.

Kobe Bryant is a scorer first. He's always been that way and save for Shaq's prime, he has always been the primary scoring option for his team. And he's a 6'6" shooting guard. Even as he's gotten older, I'm sure his shooting chart will show far more outside shots taken than LeBron James as a percentage of overall shots. Add to that the fact that Kobe has always played with 7-footers and it doesn't exactly make it a cake walk to get a clear path the hoop for easy buckets.

LeBron on the other hand is built like a defensive end. He has increasingly transitioned from point guard to traditional small forward to now spending a lot of time at the power forward spot. His shot chart over the years have trended completely inward towards the basket for a number of reasons (role, Spoelstra's offense, more posting, etc.). Throw in the make-up of his current team where he's surrounded by three-point specialists, it's easy to see why his FG percentage is so high.

To imply that FG percentage is directly correlated with being a good shooter is way off. And that's applies to any player. There are too many factors that go into it.

A better measure would be to compare FG for open shots if there is such a stat. And from what part of the floor.

quote:

---

Kobe Bryant is a scorer first. He's always been that way and save for Shaq's prime, he has always been the primary scoring option for his team.

---

Shaq was the primary option until 2003, when he was still averaging 28/11. Kobe was the #2 option for the first six years of his career.

quote:

---

Add to that the fact that Kobe has always played with 7-footers and it doesn't exactly make it a cake walk to get a clear path the hoop for easy buckets.

---

What? I think it makes it easier. He had Shaq to set screens and to command double teams. The post player's defender isn't going to leave his man because then he gets embarrassed by ****ing Shaq. It isn't like it is Chuck Hayes down there that can't even catch the ball.

You don't think Ginobili and Parker have had their drives open up because they had Duncan commanding so much attention?

quote:

---

To imply that FG percentage is directly correlated with being a good shooter is way off. And that's applies to any player. There are too many factors that go into it.

---

The man hit 41% of his threes on 250+ attempts. He has a good shot.

quote:

---

Kobe Bryant is a scorer first. He's always been that way and save for Shaq's prime, he has always been the primary scoring option for his team.

---

Right, because no one is paying attention to Lebron, he's never been the #1 option on his team. It's not like he has scored more than 27 ppg every season after his rookie year or something ridiculous like that.

quote:

---

Head Ninja In Charge
posted 11:00a, 05/24/13

To imply that FG percentage is directly correlated with being a good shooter is way off.

---

I just want to preserve this quote for posterity.

quote:

---

He has increasingly transitioned from point guard to traditional small forward to now spending a lot of time at the power forward spot. His shot chart over the years have trended completely inward towards the basket

---

41% is better than 38%. 57% is better than 47%. If it's not a fair comparison because Bryant is taking tougher shots, maybe he should learn to be more like Lebron and generate easier shots. He has almost always had great interior teammates to hold down the defense on drives and postups.

I'll admit that James is a tough player to make comparisons with; he's good at everything. His shots are split evenly between paint and outside the paint, and his shots in the paint are split between drives and postups... but he's the only non-post in the top 15 FG% this year (5th). Parker (17th) and Wade (19th) are the only other players scoring more than 20 ppg in the top 25.

quote:

---

Shaq was the primary option until 2003, when he was still averaging 28/11. Kobe was the #2 option for the first six years of his career.

---

Exactly. With respect to FG percentage, the first two years are a wash because that stat is usually always terrible for young players, especially guards. As a secondary option during Shaq's prime, is it any surprise that Kobe's FG percentage was around 46-47%? After Shaq left was when his Usage Percentage jumped above his career average damn near every season. It was only above his career average once while Shaq was there. In his first full healthy season after Shaq left, Kobe was taking 27 shots a game. His FG percentage jumped back up to around 46% when the Lakers finally got another decent scorer in Gasol. So yeah, as the primary (and a lot of times only) scoring option from the shooting guard position, your FG percentage is going to be less than someone playing in the post a lot.

quote:

---

What? I think it makes it easier. He had Shaq to set screens and to command double teams. The post player's defender isn't going to leave his man because then he gets embarrassed by ****ing Shaq. It isn't like it is Chuck Hayes down there that can't even catch the ball.

You don't think Ginobili and Parker have had their drives open up because they had Duncan commanding so much attention?

---

Shaq and Tim Duncan are two completely players and their roles (Shaq with the Lakers) within the offense were completely different. Not to mention the surrounding talent. Tony Parker shoots at a high percentage because he's one of the best finishers in basketball and San Antonio has always been surrounded by good shooters. It also doesn't hurt that Duncan can make 15-foot jumpers on command. Shaq was force of nature down low. When he set high screens, half the time it was so he can roll to the rim and finish on an alley-oop. It wasn't so Kobe or Derek Fisher or whoever could get their lay-ups, at least not to the degree that Ginobli and Parker got theirs. Shaq wasn't banking them off the glass from the elbow. He was down low damn near every possession. As far as LeBron, he's fast and physical enough where the absence of an offensive center or even the presence of a center doesn't hurt him. He plays in the post as much as a lot of centers do even before he got to Miami.

quote:

---

The man hit 41% of his threes on 250+ attempts. He has a good shot.

---

1) I never said he had a bad shot.
2) Even then, it's still just one season and it's 7 percentage points above his career average. I remember when Mehmet Okur randomly shot 45% from three one year. Mehmet Okur. Doesn't automatically mean that he's a better shooter than whoever people want to measure him up to.

quote:

---

Right, because no one is paying attention to Lebron, he's never been the #1 option on his team. It's not like he has scored more than 27 ppg every season after his rookie year or something ridiculous like that.

---

Yeah. From the SF position. You're talking about FG percentage. A #1 option from the 4 or 5 spot is going to have a better FG percentage than a #1 option from the 2 guard spot.

quote:

---

I just want to preserve this quote for posterity.

---

Gotcha. DeAndre is the best shooter in the league. Totally.

quote:

---

41% is better than 38%. 57% is better than 47%. If it's not a fair comparison because Bryant is taking tougher shots, maybe he should learn to be more like Lebron and generate easier shots. He has almost always had great interior teammates to hold down the defense on drives and postups.

I'll admit that James is a tough player to make comparisons with; he's good at everything. His shots are split evenly between paint and outside the paint, and his shots in the paint are split between drives and postups... but he's the only non-post in the top 15 FG% this year (5th). Parker (17th) and Wade (19th) are the only other players scoring more than 20 ppg in the top 25.

---

That's the point. You can compare the two as players all you want, but to compare their FG percentages and to use that as a defining metric for whether one player is better than the other and ignoring position, coaching, and offensive scheme is just bad judgement. LeBron is a better player than Kobe right now. Who knows how their career comparisons will hold up 20 years from now. Kobe may be seen as the better player or LeBron may bee seen as the better player, but either way, it sure as hell won't be because of their FG percentages.

Either way, not sure how this turned into another Kobe/LeBron thread. I hate TexAgs.

quote:

---

Gotcha. DeAndre is the best shooter in the league. Totally.

---

Until the all-star break in his 4th season, Jordan had made 3 baskets outside the paint.

In his 5 NBA seasons, he has 11 made baskets outside the paint.

Doesn't matter. His FG% is the best in the league. DJ makes Steph Curry look like the Indian kid on my intramural team.

quote:

---

That's the point. You can compare the two as players all you want, but to compare their FG percentages and to use that as a defining metric for whether one player is better than the other and ignoring position, coaching, and offensive scheme is just bad judgement. LeBron is a better player than Kobe right now. Who knows how their career comparisons will hold up 20 years from now. Kobe may be seen as the better player or LeBron may bee seen as the better player, but either way, it sure as hell won't be because of their FG percentages.

---

1. I wouldn't think that someone who is trying to argue in favor of Bryant would bring up coaching and offensive scheme. Bryant has played for Phil Jackson almost his entire career; Lebron has played for Mike Brown and Spoelstra.

2. Bryant and James are a whole lot more similar than DeAndre Jordan and James, but more on that later. If we were talking 2-3 percentage points I wouldn't bring it up, but there is a huge gap. Is James truly a better pure outside shooter than Bryant? I'd need to see him sustain 38%+ shooting for a couple more years to say for sure. Does Lebron get the ball in the basket at a much higher rate than Bryant as a versatile one-on-one scorer? Absolutely. Lebron shoots a higher percentage in the paint, a higher percentage at midrange, and a higher percentage from three. You can adjust the mix of ranges all you want, Lebron puts the ball in the basket at a higher rate. In fact, Lebron has a better percentage in the paint than DeAndre Jordan, so that ridiculous quip didn't turn out so well.

3. Lebron has already put himself a step above Bryant when it comes discussing "who was the best player over the course of his career". Now he's going after MJ.

4. My initial comments about FG% had two points. One was that it is impressive how Lebron has improved his effectiveness relentlessly over the course of his career. The guy is a hard worker and a great basketball mind. Two is that Bryant had one last refuge that people could point to and say "yeah, but Bryant is better than Lebron at this", but it looks like even that is wiped out or in the process of being wiped out.

[This message has been edited by Ulrich (edited 5/24/2013 1:38p).]

Kobe has never been an elite shooter, but he is the best difficult shot maker that I've ever seen.

Lebron is a great, great player, but he's still a long way from 5 rings.