zgolfz85 said:

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I actually think Wemby will hold up pretty well. I think for most that come into the league at his size, it's not just the size, but also the disconnected athleticism that hampers them. That's the reason I believe KD has stayed mostly healthy. Clearly Wemby also has dynamic athleticism that's very rare for that size (aka his arms and hands and legs and feet all move in unison as if he was much shorter and for most guys that size, they move like a puppy that hasn't grown into their feet yet).

Having said that, I think he'll inevitably have more injuries than players under 7 feet and will likely have to deal with stress fractures for a portion of his career, but I don't think he'll be an injury bust at all.

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All good points. I am interested to see how his career plays out.

Come on, you're better than that. If you wanted to make a legitimate comparison of their abilities and why everyone thinks Victor is an elite prospect, you would use their last season in Europe, not compare Victor's 13 games as a 17 year old dealing with injuries in his penultimate season to Luka's last season at 19 years old.

Guitarsoup said:

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Come on, you're better than that. If you wanted to make a legitimate comparison of their abilities and why everyone thinks Victor is an elite prospect, you would use their last season in Europe, not compare Victor's 13 games as a 17 year old dealing with injuries in his penultimate season to Luka's last season at 19 years old.

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I legitimately have no idea how well the leagues compare, I understand why a Spurs fan would have superior knowledge in that space, given y'all's history of success with European players!

Still, my main point was it is interesting that Luka wasn't regarded as a consensus top guy when he clearly was.

Zachary Klement said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Come on, you're better than that. If you wanted to make a legitimate comparison of their abilities and why everyone thinks Victor is an elite prospect, you would use their last season in Europe, not compare Victor's 13 games as a 17 year old dealing with injuries in his penultimate season to Luka's last season at 19 years old.

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I legitimately have no idea how well the leagues compare, I understand why a Spurs fan would have superior knowledge in that space, given y'all's history of success with European players!

Still, my main point was it is interesting that Luka wasn't regarded as a consensus top guy when he clearly was.

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So since you don't know how well the leagues compare, why wouldn't you compare their most recent achievements leading up to the draft, which would be the games that all the scouts are looking at to decide their prospect value?

Or go look at the stat lines he put up when he played against g League teams since you do know their level of play. The draft looks like it will be one European one or two college players and 3G league players to start out.

Guitarsoup said:

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Zachary Klement said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Come on, you're better than that. If you wanted to make a legitimate comparison of their abilities and why everyone thinks Victor is an elite prospect, you would use their last season in Europe, not compare Victor's 13 games as a 17 year old dealing with injuries in his penultimate season to Luka's last season at 19 years old.

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I legitimately have no idea how well the leagues compare, I understand why a Spurs fan would have superior knowledge in that space, given y'all's history of success with European players!

Still, my main point was it is interesting that Luka wasn't regarded as a consensus top guy when he clearly was.

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So since you don't know how well the leagues compare, why wouldn't you compare their most recent achievements leading up to the draft, which would be the games that all the scouts are looking at to decide their prospect value?

Or go look at the stat lines he put up when he played against g League teams since you do know their level of play. The draft looks like it will be one European one or two college players and 3G league players to start out.

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Because it was an offhanded comment that I didn't put that much thought into.

Zachary Klement said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Zachary Klement said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Come on, you're better than that. If you wanted to make a legitimate comparison of their abilities and why everyone thinks Victor is an elite prospect, you would use their last season in Europe, not compare Victor's 13 games as a 17 year old dealing with injuries in his penultimate season to Luka's last season at 19 years old.

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I legitimately have no idea how well the leagues compare, I understand why a Spurs fan would have superior knowledge in that space, given y'all's history of success with European players!

Still, my main point was it is interesting that Luka wasn't regarded as a consensus top guy when he clearly was.

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So since you don't know how well the leagues compare, why wouldn't you compare their most recent achievements leading up to the draft, which would be the games that all the scouts are looking at to decide their prospect value?

Or go look at the stat lines he put up when he played against g League teams since you do know their level of play. The draft looks like it will be one European one or two college players and 3G league players to start out.

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Because it was an offhanded comment that I didn't put that much thought into.

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You certainly put a lot of thought and effort into defending your comparison even when confronted with the more recent data. If you were really trying to find out why so many have Wemby as the best prospect since LeBron, seeing he just led the league in Points, rebounds and blocks should be a good reason why.

Guitarsoup said:

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Zachary Klement said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Zachary Klement said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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Come on, you're better than that. If you wanted to make a legitimate comparison of their abilities and why everyone thinks Victor is an elite prospect, you would use their last season in Europe, not compare Victor's 13 games as a 17 year old dealing with injuries in his penultimate season to Luka's last season at 19 years old.

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I legitimately have no idea how well the leagues compare, I understand why a Spurs fan would have superior knowledge in that space, given y'all's history of success with European players!

Still, my main point was it is interesting that Luka wasn't regarded as a consensus top guy when he clearly was.

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So since you don't know how well the leagues compare, why wouldn't you compare their most recent achievements leading up to the draft, which would be the games that all the scouts are looking at to decide their prospect value?

Or go look at the stat lines he put up when he played against g League teams since you do know their level of play. The draft looks like it will be one European one or two college players and 3G league players to start out.

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Because it was an offhanded comment that I didn't put that much thought into.

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You certainly put a lot of thought and effort into defending your comparison even when confronted with the more recent data. If you were really trying to find out why so many have Wemby as the best prospect since LeBron, seeing he just led the league in Points, rebounds and blocks should be a good reason why.

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Again, the primary point that you picked at wasn't why Wemby was viewed as the level of prospect he is. It was why wasn't Luka held in a higher regard when he was coming out.

I have no problem with people valuing him the way they do. I think he will be a monster if he holds up and packs on some weight. I have questions about whether or not that's possible just looking at his frame, but obviously that all remains to be seen.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Jesus H, I think you can let it go now. He's made it clear that his main point was Luka being undervalued, which I think everyone can agree is true. Move the **** on

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I think there are only two players the Mavs should take: Hendricks or Whitmore. They are the only two wings who are ready to play and help on both ends this year.

If the Mavs haven't already shipped the pick for immediate help by draft night, they need to be prepared to trade out of 10 if either of those guys are gone. Let someone who needs a combo guard or wants Grady Dick trade up to 10 as long they take Bertans' salary off our hands and give us a guy who can be a rotation player this year.

Then we could take someone like Lively, GG Jackson, Rupert, or Clowney depending on how far back we move.

The problem is that because Hendricks and Whitmore are wings who can play now, they will probably be drafted before 10.

Do y'all think we keep the pick or flip it?

shack009 said:

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The problem is that because Hendricks and Whitmore are wings who can play now, they will probably be drafted before 10.

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Orlando could use a shooter like Hendricks and the fact that he's a UCF star could make him to pick there

M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Brooklyn is trying to move DFS or Royce for draft picks to help their awful cap situation. Bring him back!

M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

shack009 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

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I don't think whitmore gets past Detroit.

Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

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I don't think whitmore gets past Detroit.

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I guess it's just personal preference but I would take Hendricks before Ehitmore. But you say Whitmore to Detroit at 5 and Hendricks at 6 to Orlando?

Would be a minor upset that both go before Ausar, I think.

shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

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I don't think whitmore gets past Detroit.

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I guess it's just personal preference but I would take Hendricks before Ehitmore. But you say Whitmore to Detroit at 5 and Hendricks at 6 to Orlando?

Would be a minor upset that both go before Ausar, I think.

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I honestly think Ausar slips (nothing crazy but I could see him missing out of the top 8).

M.C. Swag said:

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shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

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I don't think whitmore gets past Detroit.

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I guess it's just personal preference but I would take Hendricks before Ehitmore. But you say Whitmore to Detroit at 5 and Hendricks at 6 to Orlando?

Would be a minor upset that both go before Ausar, I think.

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I honestly think Ausar slips (nothing crazy but I could see him missing out of the top 8).

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I agree. Consider me out on Ausar, I just thought the consensus was that he's slightly favored to the other 2 mentioned.

M.C. Swag said:

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shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

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I don't think whitmore gets past Detroit.

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I guess it's just personal preference but I would take Hendricks before Ehitmore. But you say Whitmore to Detroit at 5 and Hendricks at 6 to Orlando?

Would be a minor upset that both go before Ausar, I think.

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I honestly think Ausar slips (nothing crazy but I could see him missing out of the top 8).

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Would you be ok with the Mavs taking Ausar at 10?

100%. His shooting issues aside, he still profiles to be an elite wing defender who can dribble and pass. I just think he's missing the most important ingredient of a "3&D" archetype (the 3). But he's a super athlete who by all accounts is an awesome awesome kid who works hard and mature beyond years. Mavs could do much worse than to draft Ausar.

M.C. Swag said:

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100%. His shooting issues aside, he still profiles to be an elite wing defender who can dribble and pass. I just think he's missing the most important ingredient of a "3&D" archetype (the 3). But he's a super athlete who by all accounts is an awesome awesome kid who works hard and mature beyond years.

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From everything I've read, his upside seems to be maybe slightly better Lou Dort and his downside is Andre Roberson (excuse the OKC-heavy references).

It might be worth the risk, but this team would be severely hurt by an Andre Roberson type that doesn't need to be guarded in the corner.

But of all the prospects in that top 7-8 group, he seems like the most likely to fall.

I look forward to talking myself in to him after we take him.

shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

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I don't think whitmore gets past Detroit.

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I guess it's just personal preference but I would take Hendricks before Ehitmore. But you say Whitmore to Detroit at 5 and Hendricks at 6 to Orlando?

Would be a minor upset that both go before Ausar, I think.

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Detroit has:

C Duran/Wiseman
PF Isaiah Stewart (undersized center)
SF 34yo Bogdan/ 32yo Alec Burks
SG Jaden Ivey
PG Cade Cunningham

Whitmore is super athletic and can score on the inside, something they need. He could play SF/PF with his strength and athleticism.

I think I like Hendricks better, but I think Detroit goes with the athleticism/strength over finesse/shooting.

My guess on draft right now (but there will be a ton of trades, I think:

1. Spurs Wemby
2. Hornets, Scoot. Hornets are bringing back Bridges, and really don't need two idiot knuckleheads at SF.
3. Portland, Brandon Miller (pick probably traded)
4. Houston, Amen Thompson. You look at Houston and their nucleus of Jalen Green, Kevin Porter Jr, Jabari Smith, Kenyon Martin Jr, and Tari Eason and you think "Man, what this team needs is a 6'4-6'8 guy that will throw up 4-7 threes per game and make about 30% of them" so the pick makes perfect sense here.
5. Detroit, Cam Whitmore. Gives them some positional versatility that they don't really have with their core.
6. Orlando, Ausar Thompson or Taylor Hendricks: they have Paolo at PF, Carter at C, and Wagner at SF. They needed an upgrade from Fultz at PG or Jalen Suggs (bust) at SG. Ausur Thompson or Taylor Henricks if they think Hendricks can play SG at his size.
7. Indiana, Taylor Hendricks if he is here. Tyrese, Buddy/Nembhard, Matherin, Hendricks as stretch, Myles Turner would be a solid lineup. If Hendricks goes to Orlando, Jarace Walker fits their needs best.
8. Washington: Anthony Black. Black, Beal, Kispert, Kuz, Kristaps. Fits perfectly. They will still suck, though.
9. Jazz. Set at C and PF with Walker and Lauri. Sexton and Clarkson are more of a SG. Maybe reach for Cason Wallace. They are also a team with a ton of picks, so they could use picks to move up for someone. They could use more shooting and if I know anything about Utah, they love their white guys, so I could see Gradey Dick there. If Orlando picks Taylor and Indiana goes Wallace, then Utah probably goes Ausar to run out the Sexton, Clarkson, Ausar, Lauri, Walker Kessler lineup.

Possibly around:
Jarace Walker if Indiana doesn't take him
Gradey Dick, if Utah doesn't do the obvious thing and take the white guy
Ausar Thompson
Cason Wallace

Probably around:
Kobe Bufkin
Keyonte George
Bobi Klintman
Leonard Miller
GG Jackson
Dereck Lively
Rayan Rupert
Jett Howard

Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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Guitarsoup said:

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shack009 said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Flip. There won't be anyone available at 10 we could play. Hendricks will be gone by pick 7 (at the latest).

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Agree. We should keep the pick until the last possible moment and hold out hope that Hendricks or Whitmore falls. But it's unlikely.

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I don't think whitmore gets past Detroit.

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I guess it's just personal preference but I would take Hendricks before Ehitmore. But you say Whitmore to Detroit at 5 and Hendricks at 6 to Orlando?

Would be a minor upset that both go before Ausar, I think.

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Detroit has:

C Duran/Wiseman
PF Isaiah Stewart (undersized center)
SF 34yo Bogdan/ 32yo Alec Burks
SG Jaden Ivey
PG Cade Cunningham

Whitmore is super athletic and can score on the inside, something they need. He could play SF/PF with his strength and athleticism.

I think I like Hendricks better, but I think Detroit goes with the athleticism/strength over finesse/shooting.

My guess on draft right now (but there will be a ton of trades, I think:

1. Spurs Wemby
2. Hornets, Scoot. Hornets are bringing back Bridges, and really don't need two idiot knuckleheads at SF.
3. Portland, Brandon Miller (pick probably traded)
4. Houston, Amen Thompson. You look at Houston and their nucleus of Jalen Green, Kevin Porter Jr, Jabari Smith, Kenyon Martin Jr, and Tari Eason and you think "Man, what this team needs is a 6'4-6'8 guy that will throw up 4-7 threes per game and make about 30% of them" so the pick makes perfect sense here.
5. Detroit, Cam Whitmore. Gives them some positional versatility that they don't really have with their core.
6. Orlando, Ausar Thompson or Taylor Hendricks: they have Paolo at PF, Carter at C, and Wagner at SF. They needed an upgrade from Fultz at PG or Jalen Suggs (bust) at SG. Ausur Thompson or Taylor Henricks if they think Hendricks can play SG at his size.
7. Indiana, Taylor Hendricks if he is here. Tyrese, Buddy/Nembhard, Matherin, Hendricks as stretch, Myles Turner would be a solid lineup. If Hendricks goes to Orlando, Jarace Walker fits their needs best.
8. Washington: Anthony Black. Black, Beal, Kispert, Kuz, Kristaps. Fits perfectly. They will still suck, though.
9. Jazz. Set at C and PF with Walker and Lauri. Sexton and Clarkson are more of a SG. Maybe reach for Cason Wallace. They are also a team with a ton of picks, so they could use picks to move up for someone. They could use more shooting and if I know anything about Utah, they love their white guys, so I could see Gradey Dick there. If Orlando picks Taylor and Indiana goes Wallace, then Utah probably goes Ausar to run out the Sexton, Clarkson, Ausar, Lauri, Walker Kessler lineup.

Possibly around:
Jarace Walker if Indiana doesn't take him
Gradey Dick, if Utah doesn't do the obvious thing and take the white guy
Ausar Thompson
Cason Wallace

Probably around:
Kobe Bufkin
Keyonte George
Bobi Klintman
Leonard Miller
GG Jackson
Dereck Lively
Rayan Rupert
Jett Howard

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All that makes perfect sense to me.

I would be pretty disappointed if the Mavs drafted any of your "probably around" guys or Grady Dick at 10. I would guess we try to trade back and offload a contract and acquire a rotation guy.

The pick could become a bit more valuable than expected if Ausar falls.

Hendricks should be top priority by far, but doubt he's still there. I could see him going as early as 5 or 6 especially as he gains steam. I think we flip it, but tough spot either way. I really hope we can turn that pick into a starter if we flip it...or 2 if we package another future 1st. If we could somehow pull off a quality center and startable wing, I'd be elated

Undrafted two-way prospect Kenneth Lofton versus “best prospect ever” 1st pick Victor Wembanyama pic.twitter.com/DsIKoHSVGh

— Cole (@CREAMYCOLE_) May 17, 2023

Saw this and thought of you.

Zachary Klement said:

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Undrafted two-way prospect Kenneth Lofton versus “best prospect ever” 1st pick Victor Wembanyama pic.twitter.com/DsIKoHSVGh

— Cole (@CREAMYCOLE_) May 17, 2023

Saw this and thought of you.

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A lot of people don't know this, but Ramon Sessions >>> LeBron James




Kevin Johnson >>> Hakeem.

Your point is taken, but it's also a bit scary that he was backed down so easily. That's something that can/will translate, given Wemby's frame.

Still ridiculous how tall he looks, though.

shack009 said:

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Your point is taken, but it's also a bit scary that he was backed down so easily. That's something that can/will translate, given Wemby's frame.

Still ridiculous how tall he looks, though.

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Hear me out: when you are 7'4 and 190 lbs, you can probably be backed down by anyone. Just like people did with Kevin "I couldn't do one bench rep at the combine" Durant.

That's why he is going to be primarily stretch 4/outside, which is where he plays in France. I'm fairly certain that his blocks come from help defense. I expect the Spurs to sign a post defender, because you can't put Wemby on a guy like Jokic, who weighs 35% more than him.

I'm just messing with you haha I know every single great player has footage where someone has made them look silly.

Heard Kevin O'Connor and J Kyle Mann on the most recent Ringer NBA Draft Show pod say that scouts say Leonard Miller has really improved his shooting over the past several months and that he is a guy that could make it in to the top 10.

Not saying the Mavs might be interested, but we should probably keep in mind that the current apparent order will probably change a bunch between now and draft day.

Guys will rise and fall for whatever reason as the draft process moves on. I believe the NBA combine is happening right now and we will know a lot more on the other side.

June 22 is too long to wait

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10076780-nba-insiders-dish-on-kyrie-irvings-mavs-future-plus-potential-star-trade

Some reporting says the Mavs and Kyrie had a handshake deal for a 3+1 before the trade.

A handshake agreement with Kyrie is worth about as much a #2-flavored lollipop, but this would make a lot of sense based on what both parties were saying about contract discussions immediately after the trade.

I could get behind a luka, kyrie and ayton squad. I just want to skip forward to the part where we know what's happening ha