***Official 2022 - 2023 Dallas Mavericks Season Thread***

173,533 Views | 1911 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by M.C. Swag
shack009
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 1:57p, 6/23/23
AG
I heard that bit about Lively. He just thinks centers in the league are fairly interchangeable and cheap, similar to RBs in football. He named some guards that he would rather have than Lively but Tate Frazier and KOC did a decent job of pointing out Lively actually makes sense for Dallas as opposed to those other guards.

He didn't seem to give Dallas near enough credit for the moves to get off Bertans and add 24 and O Max. Meanwhile, he raved about OKC jumping up 2 spots to get Cason, who they could have picked at 12 anyway. Definitely implied OKC fleeced us in the trade, which I don't see as the case at all.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to shack009 • 2:00p, 6/23/23
AG
shack009 said:
I heard that bit about Lively. He just thinks centers in the league are fairly interchangeable and cheap, similar to RBs in football. He named some guards that he would rather have than Lively but Tate Frazier and KOC did a decent job of pointing out Lively actually makes sense for Dallas as opposed to those other guards.

He didn't seem to give Dallas near enough credit for the moves to get off Bertans and add 24 and O Max. Meanwhile, he raved about OKC jumping up 2 spots to get Cason, who they could have picked at 12 anyway. Definitely implied OKC fleeced us in the trade, which I don't see as the case at all.
I dont know he was that critical of Dallas. He also pointed out that Dallas does none of that if they don't tank those two games, and while he doesn't like tanking, they get #12, Holmes, and OMax as a result of the tanking, and they may flip Holmes into more assets. Hard to argue with results. He makes the Miami argument, but at the same time, you gotta look at how the team was playing going into that last week. Dallas wasn't making that run.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 2:03p, 6/23/23
AG
They also weren't making the play-in even had the not tanked. Literally the most misinformed nothing burger story that refuses to die.
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shack009
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 2:13p, 6/23/23
AG
He was pretty critical. He said the trade to get Luka was good, but since then the Mavs are a poorly run franchise, citing the Kyrie trade. Paraphrasing what he said on the trade with OKC: "If you tell me Dallas and OKC are making a trade, I can pretty definitively tell you who won the trade without knowing the details. OKC is one of the best run franchises in the league and Dallas is not."
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mavsfan4ever
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In reply to awrollins • 2:17p, 6/23/23
AG
awrollins said:
M.C. Swag said:
What a night.

I was so so so mad that we drafted Lively at 12 when we coulda had Wallace or perhaps traded back even further to collect more assets but Nico...Nico cooked last night.

Turning 10+Bertans into: 12, 24, + Holmes is the type of draft night creativity this FO hasn't had in a LONG time.

Lively won't be able to meaningfully contribute to the roster for at least 2 years. He's too raw and too skinny and will basically foul out if asked to play more than 15-20 min/game. He needs to get better at screen setting and free throws and hopefully develops some sort of nose for rebounding. That will take time.

HOWEVER....getting OMax was the real deal. A junior out of Marquette who improved every season in college with an insane 6'8 frame w/ 7'1 wingspan and was probably the top 1 or 2 winners of the draft combine. He will be a day 1 contributor. My buddy is credentialed and went to the draft and tipped me off the Mavs were trading up to get him specifically because they LOVED this dude. Intelligent, high motor, huge physical tools....just checked all the boxes for what the Mavs need on and off the court. I can't rave enough about this guy.

As for a bonus: The same guy told me the Mavs aren't done and are likely moving Holmes for a bigger trade.

Way to go Nico.

Love you M.C. We went through draft hell 3 years ago when Boston traded to 30 to snatch Desmond Bane from us.

But gonna have to disagree with you on Lively. Kid can defend the paint with the best of them. He can rebound, just didn't as much as you would expect at Duke because of Filipowski. I also believe he has the potential to be adequate enough defensively on the perimeter to be impactful.

Yes, he's not going to score, but we don't need him to. His job should be strictly alley-oops and putbacks, both of which he's good at (catch radius is massive). Developing a 3 ball would be a cherry on top.

I think he can anchor us in the middle at least starting year two of his rookie contract. Overall, whether you like Lively or not, last night was a massive success and I love what Nico did.
Sounds like Nerlens Noel. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see Lively getting minutes at all this year and never really being much of a contributor. Even Nerlens could put up some offensive numbers in college. If Lively was great at put backs and oops, I think he would have better numbers in college.

But I agree that Nico was great last night.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to shack009 • 2:25p, 6/23/23
AG
It is hard to argue that Dallas had made a lot of moves that didn't necessarily pan out. OKC has done a really good job of acquiring assets and rebuilding. Both went about it differently since Dallas landed a ready-to-play HOFer while they still had Dirk, and I would argue it is a ton harder to rebuild on the fly like Dallas has had to do than tear it down and acquire assets.
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shack009
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2:26p, 6/23/23
AG
Not trying to be an *******, just genuinely curious: How can someone think Nico did great last night, but also the pick we used at 12 will never be anything or will be nothing more than a role player as a best case scenario?

IMO, you didn't do a good job if you used #12 on a terrible player. Best you could do is say it was a solid job of getting off Bertans, getting a wing defender who will be depth for this season, and adding an experienced center who didn't play much last year.

If you want to give Nico anything more than a B for last night, you have to think Lively will be at least something. Or you think O Max will be a complete stud immediately.
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shack009
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 2:30p, 6/23/23
AG
I agree with everything you said, but that's not what Bill said. He looked at the facts of this specific trade and implied OKC fleeced us.

If anything, we won the trade. They moved up 2 spots to get a guy they didn't have to trade up to get, and we parlayed the move in to a rotation center (for now) and O Max.
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Guitarsoup
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2:32p, 6/23/23
AG
The Athletic:

Lively has an immense number of tools that should make him an impactful NBA player. He'll have elite size and length among centers. He moves well enough to be versatile defensively in different coverages. And his rim protection should be legitimate. He has strong anticipation around the basket, and he has strong timing for going up to swat shots. He's just very limited on offense, and it'll be incumbent upon him to work through that. Even more than the jumper, where Lively needs to improve is with his overall comfort making passing reads. If the jumper comes along, great. There is some real potential for that to happen, and if it does, he'll be exceptionally valuable. But more than that, Lively needs to become a more fluid player and quicker processor of the game on that end of the court.
But he's such a strong defensive prospect with such good defensive tape late in the season that I think he was worth a top-20 pick, and I have a lottery grade on him due to his upside on that end. If the offense comes along at all, he has a chance to be a top-10 center in the league. Even if it doesn't, I buy him as a starter just through the defense and rim running. To me, that's worth the lottery pick the Mavericks made him.


Hollinger's analysis: What an unbelievable set of moves for Dallas. Lively and Dallas is the most perfect fit on the draft board outside the top few picks, a high-flying, rim-running, shot-blocking center who doesn't need the ball. What a perfect complement to Luka Doni and Kyrie Irving; and amazingly, they were able to dump Davis Bertans' salary and still walk away from the draft with Lively. Just A+ stuff.


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Guitarsoup
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In reply to shack009 • 2:36p, 6/23/23
AG
OKC didn't need to, but they needed to spend that much more to get to the salary floor. They can waive bertans, sign their picks and now they hit the floor. They didn't have a way to hit that because they didn't have open roster spots and couldn't sign a FA. So they trade for Bertans, waive him, eat the money that goes to the salary floor and use that spot to sign Wallace.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to shack009 • 2:39p, 6/23/23
AG
shack009 said:
Not trying to be an *******, just genuinely curious: How can someone think Nico did great last night, but also the pick we used at 12 will never be anything or will be nothing more than a role player as a best case scenario?

IMO, you didn't do a good job if you used #12 on a terrible player. Best you could do is say it was a solid job of getting off Bertans, getting a wing defender who will be depth for this season, and adding an experienced center who didn't play much last year.

If you want to give Nico anything more than a B for last night, you have to think Lively will be at least something. Or you think O Max will be a complete stud immediately.
Lol You're basically talking to me.

I never said Lively can't become something, I just said he's years away from becoming whatever he will be. He doesn't fill an immediate need in the way that most people think because I don't see him being ready for some time.

When Hendricks gets taken at 9, I'm almost certain that's who Dallas would have selected, but they can't control which players are available. Which means it was time to pivot. And I personally think the pivot maneuvers Nico pulled off, were brilliant.

Lively was obviously the guy they wanted and instead of taking him at 10 and calling it a day, they turned Bertans+10th pick into picks 12, 24, Holmes and options to open up the Full MLE ($12m) and/or the full BAE ($4.5m).

Depending on what they do in the coming months, that means they will potentially get 3 rotation players or better +Lively.

And even if they don't, they attacked their biggest weaknesses (perimeter defense and interior defense) with both short term (Prosper) and long term talent (Lively). Holmes is a movable contract that can be used to upgrade somewhere else or simply keep as front court depth. His best days are likely behind him, but he's offensively more skilled than Powell.

Bottom line: Using the bertans TPE to get another FRP was awesome. It's a player that will have immediate impact and gives you some front court optionality. A+ GM'ing. It's up to the coaches to do the rest.
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shack009
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 2:41p, 6/23/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:



Hollinger's analysis: What an unbelievable set of moves for Dallas. Lively and Dallas is the most perfect fit on the draft board outside the top few picks, a high-flying, rim-running, shot-blocking center who doesn't need the ball. What a perfect complement to Luka Doni and Kyrie Irving; and amazingly, they were able to dump Davis Bertans' salary and still walk away from the draft with Lively. Just A+ stuff.


John Hollinger, of "Rudy Gobert was the MVP of the league in 2021" fame. If Lively is Rudy Gobert, then we absolutely got a steal.

The Mavs defense is running guys off the 3 point line then defending at the rim to force mid-range jumpers/floaters, we've just been terrible at defending the rim. If Lively can sway other teams from entering the rim, then he has done his job.
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Guitarsoup
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2:51p, 6/23/23
AG
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mavsfan4ever
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In reply to shack009 • 3:09p, 6/23/23
AG
shack009 said:
Not trying to be an *******, just genuinely curious: How can someone think Nico did great last night, but also the pick we used at 12 will never be anything or will be nothing more than a role player as a best case scenario?

IMO, you didn't do a good job if you used #12 on a terrible player. Best you could do is say it was a solid job of getting off Bertans, getting a wing defender who will be depth for this season, and adding an experienced center who didn't play much last year.

If you want to give Nico anything more than a B for last night, you have to think Lively will be at least something. Or you think O Max will be a complete stud immediately.


I thought both trades were great. I also thought the Omax pick was great. I hate the lively pick but there is at least a chance that he ends up being good (even if I think it's a a low lotto chance).

So given all of the above (including the chance I could be dead wrong on lively) I still like what we did even though I hate the lively pick.

At the end of the day, if lively ends up being bad, but Omax is good, Holmes is a contributor (I've wanted him for a couple of years), and we get off of Bertans, that's still a pretty good outcome.
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South Platte
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 3:14p, 6/23/23
Guitarsoup said:
This might be my favorite pickup of the draft. I've watched Miles kill my Bears over and over. Obviously I'm behind the knowledge curve compared to you guys, but Miles and Logan Johnson of SMC were the 2 players I saw this season that were completely unguardable.
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shack009
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In reply to South Platte • 3:27p, 6/23/23
AG
I watched him single-handedly kill my wife's Sun Devils in the tournament this year. He can score and he did it in arguably the best basketball conference.

This article though really puts into perspective what his NBA prospect are:

https://www.si.com/college/tcu/basketball/what-mike-miles-draft-stock-looks-like-post-nba-combine

He was 67th out of 67 players at the combine in height (under 6'1" w/o shoes), standing reach, and wingspan. He was 60th in hand size. He is jacked, though lol.

I don't know anything about him as a defender, but maybe he is just a good enough scorer to be a 10th or 11th guy who can eat some minutes at the end of your bench and give you some scoring ability. Who knows, maybe he is the kind of guy you put in a game when you are losing by 20ish and next thing you know you are within single digits.
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zgolfz85
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 4:49p, 6/23/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:
we are idiots for not doing that
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zgolfz85
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4:50p, 6/23/23
AG
I can't listen to BS anymore. Used to be a big fan, but feel like his takes are getting lazier and lazier. He and Rusillo just have it out for the Mavs right now and it clouds their mind and just means endless Mavs bashing lately. Some of it justified, but much not
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to zgolfz85 • 4:53p, 6/23/23
AG
zgolfz85 said:
I can't listen to BS anymore. Used to be a big fan, but feel like his takes are getting lazier and lazier. He and Rusillo just have it out for the Mavs right now and it clouds their mind and just means endless Mavs bashing lately. Some of it justified, but much not
Him not knowing a thing about Lively was hilarious.

Simmons: "So he's like a 19yo Christian Wood"

KOC: Actually, not even remotely like Christian Wood.
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zgolfz85
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 4:54p, 6/23/23
AG
Guitarsoup said:
zgolfz85 said:
I can't listen to BS anymore. Used to be a big fan, but feel like his takes are getting lazier and lazier. He and Rusillo just have it out for the Mavs right now and it clouds their mind and just means endless Mavs bashing lately. Some of it justified, but much not
Him not knowing a thing about Lively was hilarious.

Simmons: "So he's like a 19yo Christian Wood"

KOC: Actually, not even remotely like Christian Wood.
right -- I just feel like his brand is so big now that he's become lazy. 5 years ago, his draft analysis would have been thorough for anyone in the top 15. Not knowing Lively is criminal for someone that gets as much NBA "credibility" as BS does
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shack009
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7:36a, 6/24/23
AG


Watanabe is one of the best corner 3P shooters in the league and shot 44.4% from all 3 and nearly 50% from the field. He's also 6'8 with a 6'10 wingspan. He made just under $2 million this past season.

Not sure what his market will be in free agency but he is the perfect fit for the Mavs.
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shack009
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8:09a, 6/24/23
AG


O Max shot 41.8% on NBA-distance 3s last season.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to shack009 • 9:06a, 6/24/23
AG
shack009 said:


Watanabe is one of the best corner 3P shooters in the league and shot 44.4% from all 3 and nearly 50% from the field. He's also 6'8 with a 6'10 wingspan. He made just under $2 million this past season.

Not sure what his market will be in free agency but he is the perfect fit for the Mavs.


If Dallas can clear enough salary to use both, he could easily he lbe has for the BIAnnual
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Guitarsoup
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10:20a, 6/24/23
AG
Dallas current cap situation (expect more moves for sure)


Luka 40mm
THJ 17.9mm
Holmes 12mm
Maxi 11mm
Bullock 10.5mm, but only 5.5 guaranteed, fully guaranteed on 6/28
JaVale 5.8mm
Green 4.8mm
Lively 4.8mm
OMax 2.7mm
Hardy 1.7mm

------------------------------

111.2mm

You can waive Bullock and stretch him for 3 years for a 1.8 hit rather than 10.5 hit. Frees up 8.7 under the luxury tax threshold.

That would be 102.5mm

Luxury tax threshold: 165,000,000

53.8mm if you keep Bullock
62.5 if you waive Bullock

Kyrie's cap hold keeps the Mavs from operating as a team under the cap.

Assets:
Non-Tax Payer MLE: 12.4mm
Bi-Annual: 4.5mm
Trade Exception (money left over from Holmes trade) $4.95mm

Kyrie would be 11th roster spot.

If you use 100% of both the MLE and BAE and don't cut Bullock, you are left with ~37mm under the hard cap of 165m to start Kyrie. If you cut Bullock and leave ~2mm for a vet min to replace him, you have 43.6 starting salary for Kyrie. Don't use the rest of the trade exception in either situation.

If you could get Donte D or Bruce Brown for the MLE and Yuta Wantabe for the BAE, that would be a pretty fantastic replacement of lost assets.


Posts: Lively/Holmes/JaVale
Stretch/PF: Omax/Yuta/Maxi
Wing: Green/DDV or Bruce Brown/Hardy/THJ
Point: Kyrie/Luka

Add in the veteran ring chaser of your choice.
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shack009
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 11:13a, 6/24/23
AG
Thanks for the info! A couple things:

I fully expect Dwight Powell to be on this team this season, and hopefully it's for a veteran minimum. No inside info, just a feeling and I don't see where he's getting money from any other team. He's made over $30 mil in the past 3 years so I don't see him chasing money to get a crappy team to a salary floor.

The organization (and MC Swag) is strongly hinting at a trade that will send multiple pieces for 1 player, or fewer players than we would send, so I expect roster spots, and maybe slightly more cap space, will open that way.

This team can't go in to next year with Lively/Holmes/Javale as the 5 rotation.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to shack009 • 12:10p, 6/24/23
AG
Yeah, that's why I put that I fully expect more moves in the first line. I don't like a lot of free agent posts, so you could go for Naz Reid rather than DD or Bruce Brown
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shack009
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In reply to Guitarsoup • 12:16p, 6/24/23
AG
If we got one of Watanabe and Bruce Brown, plus Naz Reid, I would be pretty optimistic. That should be a top 4-5 team in the west, in theory.

That's without making any other splash moves.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to shack009 • 12:57p, 6/24/23
AG
shack009 said:
If we got one of Watanabe and Bruce Brown, plus Naz Reid, I would be pretty optimistic. That should be a top 4-5 team in the west, in theory.

That's without making any other splash moves.


It would be one of Brown or Naz Reid plus Wantabe.

brown and Naz are full mle or more
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to shack009 • 10:11p, 6/24/23
AG
Maxi+THJ facilitated to a 3rd team and Mavs get Ayton. Think mavs are still trying to move holmes instead but that deal won't become official until July 6th and other teams have more urgent priorities.
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 10:33p, 6/24/23
AG
M.C. Swag said:
Maxi+THJ facilitated to a 3rd team and Mavs get Ayton. Think mavs are still trying to move holmes instead but that deal won't become official until July 6th and other teams have more urgent priorities.
What else do you give a team to take on $67mm worth of Maxi+THJ over the next 3 seasons?
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M.C. Swag
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12:14p, 6/25/23
AG


Powell would be great for the Rockets locker room. (Hell any locker room) Hope he gets a bag!
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Guitarsoup
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 12:15p, 6/25/23
AG
M.C. Swag said:


Powell would be great for the Rockets locker room. (Hell any locker room) Hope he gets a bag!
I just hope they give Austin Reaves a max deal and force the Lakers to match.

Then settle for a max deal to FVV.
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shack009
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 12:34p, 6/25/23
AG
M.C. Swag said:
Maxi+THJ facilitated to a 3rd team and Mavs get Ayton. Think mavs are still trying to move holmes instead but that deal won't become official until July 6th and other teams have more urgent priorities.
Chris Haynes is reporting that the Suns say they are planning on keeping Ayton.

But Mike Dunleavy Jr. also said Jordan Poole would be a Warrior for the next 4 years and then dealt him within days.

Could just be a play to try to up the offers.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to shack009 • 12:35p, 6/25/23
AG
Ya it's posturing. I'd be shocked if he's on eve roster still come October
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mavsfan4ever
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1:59p, 6/25/23
AG
Would love it if we could get Cam Johnson in free agency. He's the exact type of player we need. Always liked his game when he was with phoenix.
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