It's comforting to know that there are 3 things in life you can count on: Death, Taxes, and Coors Field.

Here's what the A's are getting for $14 million after one month from Matt Holliday:

BA ---> .242
HR ---> 0
RBI --> 11
SLG% --> .333
OPS ---> .629

Maybe it's just a slow start, but we'll see. He's got a long way to go to match his 35 HR & 125 RBI seasons with Colorado.

Would not be surprised if he was a product of PEDs either

Slow start. He'll be fine.

Just wait until this week when he faces the Rangers pitching. I'm sure CJ Wilson will help him get out of his slump.

way too early to call holliday a coors field bust

Holliday finishes April at .240, 1 HR, and 12 RBI

I've got a friend at work who played college ball with some guys who grew up playing with Holliday. Apparently he was pretty horrible growing up but when got to college was bigger and tons better.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

I lived in Stillwater for 9 years. Holliday has been good since the first time he picked up a bat. His dad is a **** though.

quote:

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I've got a friend at work who played college ball with some guys who grew up playing with Holliday. Apparently he was pretty horrible growing up but when got to college was bigger and tons better.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

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This is the ultimate "I heard from a friend of a friend" story. It may have been believable if a couple of things were changed.

First, Holliday didn't got to college.

Second, you don't get drafted in the 7th round if you aren't talented. And he would've been drafted higher if he hadn't expressed such a strong interest in being a two-sport star at OSU (he was a national top five QB coming out of high school).

Third, guys that are top prospects in multiple sports aren't horrible at any athletically related growing up.

Fourth, steroids won't help anyone that is "horrible" at baseball.

If I had to guess, I'd say the conversation went something like this:

Guy that played with Holliday growing up sees that Holliday knocks in 137 RBI for the Rockies and says, "Man, I never expected him to be this good. I mean he was good, but he wasn't that good."

Guy that hears that tells someone, "I heard that Matt Holliday wasn't that good growing up."

Guy that hears that guy that tells someone, "I heard Matt Holliday was horrible growing up."

[This message has been edited by Seven Costanza (edited 5/3/2009 7:36p).]

ouch, Holliday took an 0 for 7 today in the A's extra-inning loss to Seattle

RBI count is picking up, but other numbers have a long way to go:

BA ---> .226
HR ---> 4
RBI --> 20
SLG% --> .383
OPS ---> .665

I really enjoy these threads from you. I remember one from last year about the Diamondbacks.

when all is said and done Holliday will likely be a .300 hitter this year with 20+ home runs.

not the numbers he was putting up with the rockies, but it is his first year in the AL and oakland is one of the toughest HR parks in the ML, and has a TON of foul ground that adds outs to your batting stats.

Interesting fact thrown out during the Rangers beatdown the other day. Partly because of the huge foul territory, no A has ever won the batting title (I assume they meant since they were in Oakland). The closest that anyone has gotten was Carney Lansford came within 3 or 4 points one year.

Actually looking back at the batting titles, the last time an A won was 1952 when they were still in Philly.

Looking at Shibe Park, they had pretty decent sized foul territory as well.

right now, Holliday's not hitting anywhere

Home OPS ---> .687
Road OPS ---> .638

I believe he's a free agent at the end of season

just hit a towering 3-2 2 out top of the 11th pitch to left field to crush the rays' hopes of winning this game...

he's up to 5 HR and 26 RBI

but that was only his 11th x-base hit of the season in 138 AB's

need more than that at $13.5 million salary

Holliday is just starting to heat up.

mark it down; by season's end .300+ avg and 20+ HR's.

I like this Holliday tracker thread. Makes me think of the Shawn-o-meter for Dunston back in the day.

Back on track...

AVG: .268
HR: 5 w/ 5 2Bs
RBIs: 26
OBP: .340
OPS: .767

Let me add the Coors Field benchmarks

2006 --> .326 BA, 34 HR, 114 RBI, .586 SLG

2007 --> .340 BA, 36 HR, 137 RBI, .607 SLG

(and throw in 50 doubles in 2007 too)

Update

.272 Avg
6 HR
28 RBI
22 Runs
2 SB

The first 2 months of the season are in the books for the A's. Holliday's numbers thru 48 games

BA .270
HR 6
RBI 28
OBP .366
SLG .416

Looking rather rockstar-ish heading into June

FWIW, he's been much better on the road than he has been at home...

While he's still got 3 home runs at home versus on the road, his averages jumps 40 points when he is on the road.

Ever stop to think that that grassland he plays in half the year has some major effects on this?



He was still a .300 hitter on the road in 2008 and 2007.

In 2007, that 135 RBI year, he had 55 road RBIs in 75 or so games and was on pace for well over 100 if he played every game on the road.


One cannot argue that he did not get "help" playing at Coors Field, but the guy has done more than enough outside of Coors Field to show he's an excellent hitter.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 5/31/2009 10:46p).]

quote:

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Looking at Shibe Park, they had pretty decent sized foul territory as well.

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When Shibe opened up, it was 515 to deep center, 360 down the lines and 393 through the right and left-center fields. the backstop was 90 feet.

I know it closed with 410 to center, 390 or so through right and center, and only 330 down the lines. But, I know they moved that right field fence from 12 to 34 feet. Left field was still 12 feet.

The backstop ended at 64 feet.



And yeah, it seemed to have considerable foul territory compared to ballparks today.



I'm just not sure when they made all the adjustments to the fences.



I do know the Phillies hit 5 home runs there in one inning in 1949!

Did Jimmie Foxx not win a batting title or something during his time at Shibe?

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 5/31/2009 11:03p).]

the problem is that Holliday is being paid ($13.5 million) based on his past Coors Field production. If Holliday was making about $8 million this year his numbers would be fairly decent.

The A's may not care because they're going to deal him before the trade deadline, since Holliday is a free agent after this season.

But there is some GM out there that's going to throw money at him thinking they are going to get the same numbers that Holliday gave the Rockies.

The Astros are probably the most recent team to make this mistake when they signed Kaz Matsui away from the Rockies 2 years ago. Fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

As I said, I'm not trying to argue about Coors Field, but in this particular case, I think if he was doing what he did on the road the past two years, I think the Athletics would be fairly happy

A guy who could drive in 110+ runs, hit over .300, etc...

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 5/31/2009 11:37p).]

quote:

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The Astros are probably the most recent team to make this mistake when they signed Kaz Matsui away from the Rockies 2 years ago. Fell for it hook, line, and sinker.

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Wait, what?

Kaz matsui hit .293 with 6 homers with Houston in 2008 and hit .288 with 4 home runs in Colorado in 2007. He had 26 doubles in Houston and 24 in Colorado.

He had 375 at bats in Houston and 410 in Denver.

He only played 2 years in Colorado, and only appeared in 32 games in 2006.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 5/31/2009 11:42p).]

honestly, signing Matsui away from any team was a bad move because he's hurt so much.

But from the numbers I'm looking at on baseball-reference.com from Colorado to Houston...

his BA is down 27 points
his OBP is down 17 points
his SLG is down 36 points
his OPS is down 53 points

but one thing is up though...his annual salary

He played for $1.5 million for Colorado in 2007. He played for $5.5 million for Houston last year and another $5.5 million this year.

His full year in Colorado was not as good, in any manner except his ability to hit triples, as his full year in Houston.

In less at bats with Houston, he put up more home runs. More doubles. Had a higher average. Had a higher on base percentage. Had a higher slugging percentage.

His numbers do look sexy in 2006, but he only played in 32 games with the Rockies.

He is having a horrible 2009, but he proved in 2008, when he hit the exact same number of home runs And doubles at Minute Maid Park as he did at Coors Field in 2007, that it's not that he's just missing his beloved Coors Field.

And he had close to 10% less the home at bats in 2008 than he did in 2007.



In Kazuo's case, it's not the ballpark.



Edited for clarity.

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 6/2/2009 1:48p).]

quote:

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In Kazuo's case, it's not the ballpark.

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What is it this year?

Who is to say that last year wasn't actually his career year and the year before that, at Coors, was an off year for him...similar to this year yet Coors made it seem better?

See the next post...

[This message has been edited by TXAggie2011 (edited 6/2/2009 2:34p).]

For the +/- for home runs...

2009: Rockies +1
2009: Astros +15

2008: Rockies +24
2008: Astros -1

2007: Rockies +35
2007: Astros +17

2006: Rockies -7
2006: Astros +22


Astros are +53 since 2006. Rockies are +53 since 2006.


Amazing.

that is interesting

after a good month of May and first week of June, Holliday has slowed down again. The numbers after 62 games (38% of the season):

BA .274
HR 8
RBI 37
OBP .372
SLG .438