****Rangers vs Angels****

3,900 Views | 115 Replies | Last: 11 yr ago by DallasAg 94
mhayden
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quote:
Well let's clarify first. Are you not saying Wash should be fired because he's the main problem?

Maybe I misinterpreted your earlier posts do agsin, please clarify and then I'll answer your question


The main problem with what? This 95-loss-trending team? No. The injuries are the major problem with that.

Is it difficult to look at what happened in 2012, 2013 and the absolute cratering in 2014 (all with a lot of differnet players) and not think he's not handling a big portion of his duties? Yes.

Again, it comes back to what you think his job is. In-game strategy and filling up line up cards? Not many would say he's good at either of those. Teaching defense and baserunning and the fundamentals? Again, the results on the field don't support that. So you're left with this unquantifiable "players play hard for him" that you could toss on just about any coach.

Except the players absolutely folded for him in 2012, 2013 and through the ASB 2014.


But lets ignore whether he is actually the problem... Instead view it as -- what is he actually bringing to the table? Why not just have a fern in the dugout and save the $1m+?



You could have the best manager in the world and this wouldn't be a 90 win team. But it isn't a 95 loss team either.
DallasAg 94
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Danny

And by veterans on the team you are limited to:
Andrus
Beltre
Colby

Of course, that depends on what you define as veteran.

Of the 25 guys on the active roster:

Guys added this year (12):
Gimenez
Baker
Choo
Tolleson
West
Mendez
Mikolas
Feierabend
Odor
Pena
Rosales (18GPs)
Robertson

Guys going into their 2nd year (6):
Cotts
Chirinos
Frasor
Rios
Tepesch
Soria

Guys with 3 years (1):
Darvish

Veterans (5):
Leonys Martinez ( 4 years with 8 games in 1 of those year)
Feliz - who has been away.
Beltre (4th year)
Andrus
Colby

Who did I miss?

Half your roster is new this season... so you can't fault much of that on Wash half way into the new season. 6 more guys do have a full year under Wash... 3 of those are RPs, one is a backup C and the other was a trade deadline addition last year.

Of the Veterans... Feliz and Colby didn't pitch in 2013. That leaves your veterans really as Leonys Martin and Adrian Beltre.

Wash has applauded Beltre for his leadership and professionalism... I assume we all agree with that sentiment?!

That leaves Andrus and Martinez.
mhayden
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I'll put just as much blame for the Andrus situation on JD as I do Wash.

Washington obviously hasn't been able to get the kid to play with his head on straight. Daniels made a huge overpay on the contract of a light-hitting shortstop they thought would improve.
corleoneAg99
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AG
quote:
I'm not sure anyone has ever said he was solely responsible for the collapses.

That doens't mean a big chunk of his responsibility as manager is to keep that from happening.



This is a quote from a few posts ago. To me, that says you think he's the main problem. Not the only problem....but the main problem.

Now you've clarified that the catastrophic and history making levels of injuries are the main problem.

I agree.

Is Wash an issue THIS year? IMO no because they team is so ****ing bad, he doesn't have a chance to make any strategic decisions that would actually win or lose a game. They're giving up 6-10 runs a game and scoring 2 or 3. Wash doesn't have a chance to screw it up.

Besides the injuries this year are two other key issues IMO. The guys replacing those who are injured(because they're not as good as the guys they've replaced and not good overall) and Elvis. The talent level is bad and they are one of the worst teams. Folks saying "they should be better" would have a hard time substantiating that when comparing rosters against the other teams in the league. The Rangers, in fact, have one of if not THE worst active roster in baseball right now.

As for Elvis, he has been AWFUL. Is that on Wash? I guess you have to concede that it could be. Elvis is miscast in the #2 hole but there isn't a better option and has had focus lapses and questionable off season dilligence. If Wash needs to be doing more to get Elvis to focus then that is going underreported from what i've seen. What I see more of is that Elvis is pressing and the contract(which hasn't even started yet) has his head a little dazed. He's 25 so while not a kid, there's still maturing to do.

As for previous years, Wash was the manager when they went to b2b World Series. Was he a significant reason they lost to SF? Or STL? I don't think so but we've debated that already.

What Wash does that is maddenning to all is the anti-analytic moves. He puts on too many bunts. Too many IBB's. Doesn't use the pen as efficiently as he could

So what IS his job?

First and foremost his job is to make sure the room, or the team dynamic if you will, is condusive to success on the field. He has to manage ego's and 25 different personalities speaking several different languages. His other primary role, IMO, is to make sure the EFFORT is there each and every game with zero exceptions. Zero. Does this team have an effort issue?

We can debate that if you want but I don't think they do. I think you put Elvis in his own box and then analyze the team for what it is; largely devoid of talent.

Wash's last primary role is to be the final say on strategic in game decisions. He isn't the only voice, and Bogar was hired specifially for this, because EVERYONE knows he is not the strongest chess player. Has that component lost them games? Or caused the 12 and 13 collapse?

Again, we can debate that if you want but I don't think so.

Anyway, to recap, I think the manager has 3 primary roles; manage the room, get max effort, and be the final say on strategic in game decisions. Wash's performance in these areas, IMO, is not why they might lose 100 games. At least not as of the AS break. If they continue to lose and the room sours, effort lags, and he somehows makes enough mistakes in a lost seasonf or people to actually notice, then im sure he'll be fire and it will be justified.
DallasAg 94
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How can you are argue this:

quote:
But it isn't a 95 loss team either.


It most certainly is a 95+ loss team.

If even money is 81 losses. You have 14 losses to find.

Nick Martinez (11 GS), Miles Mikolas (3GS), Scott Baker (4 GS), Irwin (1GS): 19GS total. None of these guys are MLB pitchers. You can't argue that any of the 5 would have gotten a GS in MLB for any team, if not for the incredible number of injuries. They are not 5th starters... they are either RPs or minor leaguers. As a #3... you'd expect 8-9 Ws in their GSs. For who they are...

Martinez: 4-7 (one of those
Baker: 0-4 (Interestingly the Rangers are 0-15 in games he has appeared).
Mikolas: 0-3
Irwin: 0-1
That's 4-15. That right there is 4 losses. Add 3 more losses if you continue the rest of the season.

Colby Lewis (16GS - 6.54 ERA) - He is no longer a MLB caliber. He missed half of 2012 and all of 2013. To expect him to return to the rotation was fantasy. Some believed he would never pitch again at any level, so kuddos to him. The team is 8-8 in his 16 GS. I'm surprised.

The team was 2-6 in games Saunders was the SP. No reason to have expected him above a #4 or 5. He didn't achieve even that.

This team had two MLB caliber SPs - Darvish and Perez. And Perez went down after 8GS.

I just don't see it any other way. The Rangers were able to hide the SP holes for a couple months, but scouting reports got out and we will struggle the rest of the way.
DallasAg 94
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quote:
Washington obviously hasn't been able to get the kid to play with his head on straight. Daniels made a huge overpay on the contract of a light-hitting shortstop they thought would improve.


The only issue with overpay is that now he is stuck. I don't know anyone who wouldn't have expected him to have improved. Even paying him a premium... the guy needs to deliver more.

I think Wash's message in the team meeting was directed to Andrus. It will be up to Wash and JD to either trade him or bench him. IMO, how they handle Andrus will reflect on my overall perception of them.

You have Sardinas... you have Profar... Rosales, et al...
mhayden
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When I say Washington is a big chunk of the reason I am stating the 2012-2014 seasons combined, not just this year. I don't think many would argue that injuries are far and away the main reason for the bad baseball this year.

But I also don't think that is an out for fielding the worst Rangers team in 30 years.

The problem with evaluating the manager is in-game decisions and statistics are largely what you have to go on. Otherwise all you are left with is the un-quantifiable "they play hard for him and he manages their egos".

But again, if that is the case what happened in the epic 2012 collapse? Or hell the 2011 one? Or the 2010 WS where Texas was favored but never showed up?

I'm willing to give Washington credit for getting that 2010 and 2011 team TO the World Series... but he starts to lose a tiny bit of that credibility when neither of those teams can close it out... and a little bit more when they collapse in 2012... and a little more when they collapse in 2013.

If Ron deserves credit for getting an extremely talented team to the WS in 2010 and 2011, he also deserves blame for letting an extremely talented team miss the playoffs in 2012 and 2013.

It's easy to throw around that the players "play hard" for the guy -- except when you're turning into Clownball for the final months of the '12 and '13 campaigns.
DallasAg 94
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quote:
But again, if that is the case what happened in the epic 2012 collapse? Or hell the 2011 one? Or the 2010 WS where Texas was favored but never showed up?


2010 - Except for the 1-4 WS series... that was a magnificent season.
2011 - Except for Feliz blowing a save... OR Cruz unable to catch a "challenging" line drive... that was a magnificent season.

In both cases, we walked away with an AL pennant.

2012 - Hamilton was largely central to that collapse.

21/86 in Sept with 6 DNPs.
2/13 in Oct

This illustrates where Hamilton was in Oct 2012:

Dude started the season cheating on his wife in the bathroom of a restaurant and was spotty all season.

2013 - That was a bad season and reflective of all the things that concerns you.

2014 - Just fate of the baseball gods.

The team is headed in the wrong direction, but I don't think you can draw any connection from season-to-season. None.
corleoneAg99
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AG
They won 91 games in 2013. Disappointing? Sure.

Bad?

Not IMO.
DallasAg 94
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Bad when you've won two AL Pennants, two divisions and been to two WSs. And when you had your sights on another...
corleoneAg99
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AG
Sorry but 91 win teams aren't bad. Poor choice of words.
DallasAg 94
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SHUT UP! IT WAS A BAD SEASON! WE DIDN'T WIN THE WS!



























 
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