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I wonder if Papelbon ever called Ortiz on not hustling?

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Pap and Papi were boys!

I was withholding judgment on this till the facts came out. Based upon everything out there, and now that the investigation is complete, if I was the Nats GM, I'd have an uber driver deliver all of Paps stuff with a note "check's in the mail, we no longer need your services here." Another uber driver would be making the same delivery to Matt Williams!

In the end the running out a fly ball was an opportunity.

Not that this is a defense, but Pap seems to have been miserable since he left the Sox.

Honestly, I think he'd fit in great in Chicago. Does the suspension prevent Theo from adding him to the post season roster?

While the fourth sentence was a joke, I was serious about him being lightening there. The crowd would love him and he'd love them back.

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if I was the Nats GM, I'd have an uber driver deliver all of Paps stuff with a note "check's in the mail, we no longer need your services here." Another uber driver would be making the same delivery to Matt Williams!

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That's pretty much what they did today

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if I was the Nats GM, I'd have an uber driver deliver all of Paps stuff with a note "check's in the mail, we no longer need your services here." Another uber driver would be making the same delivery to Matt Williams!

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That's pretty much what they did today

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Williams got fired? Nice!

http://deadspin.com/5388660/coming-soon-jonathan-papelbons-dubious-taste-in-cinema

Cubs have a great clubhouse. Why would they want to mess that up with Papelbon?

Epstein would never bring Papelbon to Chicago

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Cubs have a great clubhouse. Why would they want to mess that up with Papelbon?

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Because Theo likes projects.

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Epstein would never bring Papelbon to Chicago

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And never say never.

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Cubs have a great clubhouse. Why would they want to mess that up with Papelbon?

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Because Theo likes projects.

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He already took the Cubs job...

Does Theo have history with Paps? Yes or no?

Did that history end with success? Yes or no?

And for the cubs fans, I sat in those bleachers for 6 seasons when I lived in Chicago.

He would be loved by those bums!

He wouldn't make it out of Wrigley alive if he tried the same **** with Kris Bryant. The fans would rip him to shreds.

Papelbon was in the wrong in a baseball sense. My guess is that he has some beef with Harper beyond this. It was a shallow pop up to left. Harper was not going to make it to second even hustling if the leftfielder dropped it and he DID run enough to make it to first if it had dropped. Sprinting to second base would have led to an out anyway or an injury.

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I wonder if Papelbon ever called Ortiz on not hustling?

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i was literally about to post this about Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, the kings of not hustling when they don't feel like it

A different perspective from actual MLB players

This is an interesting article.

Quick summary of the several comments:

Pujols, Cabrera and Papi have earned the right to not run it out. Harper is 22 years old. He hasn't earned that right.
Papelbon has 11 years in the big leagues. Harper is 22 years old and needed to get his butt kicked.
The "kid" runs his mouth a lot and this is overdue. The timing, however, was terrible.

Except he did "run it out" by baseball standards.

Now if baseball standards have sunken to the point where running it out really isn't running it out -- well those same players that were interviewed have a lot to do with that. Maybe if they hustled all the time it would be considered the norm.

Reality is the game has changed and it's about protecting your investments. Many AL managers don't want their pitchers even running hard to first in interleague play (Texas lost Ogando for half a season due to this). Josh Hamilton at one time was incredible to watch in the outfield - but when the injuries started rising he was basically told to not to go all-out anymore - his bat was more valuable than laying out for a fly ball or two.

You can say "aw shucks, if Harper hurt himself busting his ass down to 1st base pointlessly on a routine pop-up then fans wouldn't hold it against him". Except of course he's arguably the greatest player in baseball right now so if he was lost for any period of time due to a pointless exercise, well, that's pretty dumb.

You also have to take into account the situation - if that pop-up is dropped, Harper is standing on first base. If that pop-up is dropped, Harper isn't going to be on second base. How quickly he gets to first base isn't really important.

Not saying all of that is going through his head at all, just saying it's not as simple as the veterans put it with "thats not how the game is played"... Well, yeah it is.

I can't comment on whether their perspectives are right or wrong. I never played pro baseball.

But it IS obviously their collective perspective. They (the current and former player) universally don't view it the same way as much of the non playing public does.

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I can't comment on whether their perspectives are right or wrong. I never played pro baseball.

But it IS obviously their collective perspective. They (the current and former player) universally don't view it the same way as much of the non playing public does.

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The collective perspective of those who felt like commenting on the subject, which I imagine constitutes many of the Papelbon-esque "defenders of the game".

And I don't think it's any secret that Harper isn't very well liked in the league, because as was mentioned -- he's a guy that never had to "pay his dues".

While I definitely think Harper *should* carry himself in a different way, I certainly don't chide him for not falling in line to some of the silliness of "this is how you play the game". Some fat **** can jog down to first base because he has "paid his dues"? Harper is hitting 40 homeruns and has been one of the only bright spots in a season where a lot of guys who have "paid their dues" didn't produce.

Much like the corporate world has shifted, this isnt about how many years you've put in, it's about how you are producing.

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You also have to take into account the situation - if that pop-up is dropped, Harper is standing on first base. If that pop-up is dropped, Harper isn't going to be on second base. How quickly he gets to first base isn't really important.

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I think this is the most relevant aspect.

Do guys run 100% full speed to get under every fly ball that they are going to catch (i.e. haul ass to the spot, then stop and wait for it)? Or do they judge it and jog there when running full-out isn't necessary? Nothing wrong with giving the effort that the situation requires over a 162 game season.

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Pujols, Cabrera and Papi have earned the right to not run it out.

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I don't think they've "earned the right" not to run it out. I think they've let their bodies get to the point that they are incapable of sprinting to first base 400 times per year without falling apart.

They fit in to John Kruk's quote - "I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player."

Of course mhayden knows better than actual current Major League Baseball players.

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A different perspective from actual MLB players

This is an interesting article.

Quick summary of the several comments:

Pujols, Cabrera and Papi have earned the right to not run it out. Harper is 22 years old. He hasn't earned that right.
Papelbon has 11 years in the big leagues. Harper is 22 years old and needed to get his butt kicked.
The "kid" runs his mouth a lot and this is overdue. The timing, however, was terrible.

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In that opinion column, nobody wanted to put their names on their comments. Heck, at least give Papelbon credit for being transparent. And though nobody fully backed Harper, few fully backed Papelbon either.

Ortiz hasn't run one out since Minnesota. At this point, Pujols is probably physically incapable of running it out more than once a game. Cabrera... He's in Detroit, so I can't and won't add anything. Compared to a player in his fourth year, playing MVP caliber ball, and (if I recall correctly) garnered some early criticism for playing *too* hard.

Papelbon has always been kind of a dick. We don't even talk about him much here in our common hometown (Chipper is the favorite baseball son).

I'm sure many current MLB players aren't fans of Harper and probably have trouble separating evaluation of the situation vs. evaluation of a guy they think is a dick.

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Of course mhayden knows better than actual current Major League Baseball players.

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Knows what better? I was giving my opinion on it.

In all fairness, the writer of the article (also a former player who thinks that the media is over grilling Pap and under scrutinizing Harper) doesn't disclose whether the sources asked to remain anonymous or not.

Also - I took from the article that this is far more about Harper running his mouth to the media than not running the base paths.

That bunch of guys that "paid their dues" and "play the game the right way" (which apparently includes beaning a guy because he hit a homerun off of you) are many of the same guys that stood silently as half the guys in their clubhouse were pumping themselves full of steroids the last few decades, completely making a mockery out of the game.

Pardon me if I think their opinion on carrying the baseball flame doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot.

There's a reason those dozen or so quotes don't have their names attached to them, and I'd guess it's because there team or "era" had a lot worse going on then not running full speed down to 1st base on a routine pop-up.

Harper did nothing wrong. It wasn't a deep fly ball where he should have made it halfway to second in case it dropped. He just needed to be able to make it to first in case it dropped, if he had "hustled" and it was dropped he would have been "Altuve'd" at 2b. Papelbon is an idiot. I can only hope that any mlbers who agree with him just didn't see the play.

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Harper did nothing wrong. It wasn't a deep fly ball where he should have made it halfway to second in case it dropped. He just needed to be able to make it to first in case it dropped, if he had "hustled" and it was dropped he would have been "Altuve'd" at 2b. Papelbon is an idiot. I can only hope that any mlbers who agree with him just didn't see the play.

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Did you read the article?

It was less about the play than it was about the player (Harper). In which case the actual play is immaterial to their opinions.

Are those of you defending Papelbon defending him for yelling at Harper or for actually going after him?

Either way, any credibility about what he was saying goes completely out of the window when he physically attacks the dude. You're gonna yell at a guy for not "playing the game the right way" and then try to fight him when he talks back? That's a clown argument, bro.

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It's like Buster Olney said,

"So we're supposed to believe this was about Papelbon, who was once suspended for grabbing his crotch in the direction of booing fans, wanting Harper to play the game the right way? Not a chance..."

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Sorry a crotch grab at opposing fans does not make you a bad ball player. Imagine if that was the standards for Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Bob Gibson, Cy Young etc etc.

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It's like Buster Olney said,

"So we're supposed to believe this was about Papelbon, who was once suspended for grabbing his crotch in the direction of booing fans, wanting Harper to play the game the right way? Not a chance..."

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Sorry a crotch grab at opposing fans does not make you a bad ball player. Imagine if that was the standards for Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Bob Gibson, Cy Young etc etc.

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Who said it makes you a bad ball player? It makes you a dip****.

Dude are you related to Papelbon or something?

This thread is in real jeopardy of turning into shyt.