I'm fairly certain the implication is that if the Rangers move (to Dallas or otherwise) that the new stadium will have a retractable roof.

Unless this Texas Live things turns out to be a huge flop, the Rangers will be in Arlington for the foreseeable future

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Rangers have always had a "Southwest" feel to them. It'd be a culture clash if they ever moved to Dallas. Not to mention that they play their summer games at night and don't have to deal with the stifling humidity that Houston has.

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Huh?

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Ok, let me try and put it this way: people on these boards from Houston-Dallas love to talk trash about each other, right? Well, Dallas has never had any animosity towards Houston; however, there is a rather friendly (at this time) rivalry between Fort Worth and Dallas. They're only separated by about 30 miles, but the cities have exceedingly different vibes. Fort Worth is often said to be "Where the West Begins". Its a very cowboy boots, hole-in-the-wall bar, laid back feel to it. In essence, it's a very Southwestern city. Dallas is very nicely dressed, big lights, fancy cars (the phrase often used by people in the Metroplex is that Dallas is home to the "$30,000/year millionaire"), and upscale bars and restaurants. In essence, it has a city feel to it. Dallas was built with oil. Fort Worth was built through cattle.

The Rangers have always felt more Fort Worth than Dallas. From the top on down. Nothing wrong with it either way. While a team in Dallas would definitely work, the baseball history of the area strongly favors the Fort Worth and Arlington vibe more than it does Dallas. The idea that Dallas can just swoop in, throw some money at something and declare it solved would make more people mad then happy. In a sense, it seems that its a solution in search of a problem. I've been a season ticket holder for 29 years and I've never had a problem going to outdoor games in the summer. We've somehow made it through almost a century of various levels of baseball in the Metroplex without needing a roof and now all of a sudden we need one? You serious, Clark?

If you're still confused, there are a couple of books:

(1) The Big Rich: The Rise and Fall of the Greatest Texas Oil Fortunes - Book goes into detail of the Houston and Dallas oil fortunes and how those cities came to rival California in money showmanship.

(2) Twelve Mighty Orphans - A football book, but it goes into great detail about the history of Fort Worth during the turn of the century and how Dallas elites, even before the age of oil, looked down on Fort Worth as a "cowtown" that couldn't really compete with them in terms of size, glamour, and money. The book has some nice stuff about how Amon G. Carter attempted to change that.

Got it. Thanks

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Got it. Thanks

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As a previous poster said, this is all rather moot as the Rangers don't really want to leave Arlington. That $200 million development will keep them there for a while.

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Unless this Texas Live things turns out to be a huge flop, the Rangers will be in Arlington for the foreseeable future

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Until any Arlington development doesn't turn out to be a huge flop, it's hard to believe Texas Live won't be.

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It's amazing that it's taken this long to get the gears turning. That area is ripe for being turned into something exciting. Tons of land, large population, and an infrastructure of the two most popular local sports franchises.

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I don't know the specifics of how Arlington works, but...

American Airlines Center opens in 2001. TRE transit from Fort Worth (16th largest city in the nation) begins in... 2001.

The Ballpark in Arlington opens in 1994. Jerryworld opens in 2009... Yet here we are in 2016 and the 9th largest city in the nation AND the 16th largest city in the nation have no public transportation available to get them to either of the stadiums.

Has the thought process of Arlington all this time been "hey, if we force people to drive here for entertainment, they'll choose just to move here for it" ?

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The lack of anything around those stadiums is disappointing.

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I don't know the specifics of how Arlington works, but...

American Airlines Center opens in 2001. TRE transit from Fort Worth (16th largest city in the nation) begins in... 2001.

The Ballpark in Arlington opens in 1994. Jerryworld opens in 2009... Yet here we are in 2016 and the 9th largest city in the nation AND the 16th largest city in the nation have no public transportation available to get them to either of the stadiums.

Has the thought process of Arlington all this time been "hey, if we force people to drive here for entertainment, they'll choose just to move here for it" ?

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Cities are often slow to adjust. For so long, Arlington has been kind of a vacation stop in between the two larger cities. You wanna see the Death Star? Hurricane Harbor? The Original Six Flags? Hey, come to Alrington!! As for its living arrangements, Arlington is made of mostly poor families. There is a lot of really low income apartments that sprawl the area. While the stadiums caused a myriad of restaurants and chain bars to pop up, it did little to bring in new devolpments. Couple that with the fact that the Rangers and Cowboys love it there, there hasn't been a business incentive to improve, until lately. The fact that the Rangers, not the city or its tax base, are doling out such a huge sum to modernize the area is huge. Kansas City did the same thing in the last decade with Kauffman and it's worked wonders.

Plus, from a personal perspective, it's nice to have teams that play right in the middle of the Metroplex and not fifty light years away on one side or the other. Getting to Stars and Mavs games is often a nightmare. Couple that with the fact that Victory Plaza sucks and there is a kind of dead zone surrounding the stadium, Arlington has a great logistical opportunity if they handle it correctly.

The point is I think it's ridiculous that they haven't committed to one or the other... either develop the surrounding area to make it worthwhile to stay for more than just the game, or allow mass transportation so that people can enjoy the pre-game/post-game entertainment in their own respective cities and travel in/out for the actual game.

Again, I'm not familiar with Arlington politics so I don't know the actual reasoning... but it's almost like the mindset is "if we push for a public transportation option like the TRE, then they won't be spending their pre/post-game dollars in Arlington"... But 15 years later and there still is NOWHERE TO SPEND YOUR PRE/POST-GAME DOLLARS IN ARLINGTON.

They're scared of the unwashed masses streaming in if they add public transportation, as if Arlington is some city on the hill.

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The point is I think it's ridiculous that they haven't committed to one or the other... either develop the surrounding area to make it worthwhile to stay for more than just the game, or allow mass transportation so that people can enjoy the pre-game/post-game entertainment in their own respective cities and travel in/out for the actual game.

Again, I'm not familiar with Arlington politics so I don't know the actual reasoning... but it's almost like the mindset is "if we push for a public transportation option like the TRE, then they won't be spending their pre/post-game dollars in Arlington"... But 15 years later and there still is NOWHERE TO SPEND YOUR PRE/POST-GAME DOLLARS IN ARLINGTON.

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Agreed

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Again, I'm not familiar with Arlington politics so I don't know the actual reasoning... but it's almost like the mindset is "if we push for a public transportation option like the TRE, then they won't be spending their pre/post-game dollars in Arlington"... But 15 years later and there still is NOWHERE TO SPEND YOUR PRE/POST-GAME DOLLARS IN ARLINGTON.

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Arlington rejected joining in on DART/TRE because the cost was going to be so high and the city didn't think the residents of Arlington cared enough about it for the money, given that the commute time (especially from North Arlington along near 30) to either downtown was not that significant. To my knowledge, your point about non-residents spending habits around Rangers games was not relevant. Non-residents weren't the ones paying Arlington's share of the money.

I also don't think the timing of the TRE construction had anything to do with the AAC. People who use it to commute to work >>>>>>>>> People who use it to commute to AAC events.

And if I'm the Rangers organization I certainly take that into account when true negotiations come up -- your residents don't find it significant enough to try and push for public transportation to and from the Ballpark and/or developing the surrounding area with places to spend money?

That's fine. We'll flirt with a city that does.

The Rangers get solid attendance, as evidenced (and likely referenced by you in previous threads) how they stack up to the rest of the league even in down years. To say there is NO development around there, is obviously not true. Not that many stadiums have truly walkable bars and restaurants near the stadium, such that they are significantly closer than Lincoln Square. I get that you think that its not practical for people to hangout at Boomer Jacks or Sherlocks pre- and post-game, but people do and there is the shuttle available for those people (atleast there used to be, I assume something is still going on there but never used in 2015). I've actually made that walk a couple of times and it sucks (and is out of the question if you have womenfolk with you). The Rangers also built that Capt Morgan place in CF to provide people with another option. We'll see how this Arlington Live place turns out, but I'm assuming it will have just another sponsored bar like the Budweiser place across from the White Sox stadium and next to the D-backs stadium, and if so, will suck.

You go to quite a few games and you want you better drinking options closeby. I get that, I also think it would be nice. If you don't mind a short drive, there are several solid place within a 1.5 miles of the ballpark that would work nicely. I don't think the situation is nearly as dire as you make it out to be when you go on about "the team threatening to go somewhere else where people will build what you want". Especially when that lack of public transportation just helps them bring in parking dollars.

Developments around stadiums don't really work. I mean, even the whole Victory Plaza area has struggled mightily to ever be successful, and its in the type of location with the type of development that is exactly what people are clamoring for here.

I grew up in Arlington and now live in Uptown Dallas. I would make use of all the types of amenities you are looking for here - public trans and/or better food & drink options in the immediate proximity to the ballpark - but I don't think the absence of those has significantly reduced my enjoyment of the baseball game experience.

As I said before I'll concede that you know the area and politics of the area better than I do... but how many Major League Ballparks do not have multiple bars and restaurants within easy walking distance of the entrances/exits and also not have public transportation that drops right near the stadium?

I imagine it's a very short list.

And don't get me wrong, if the stadium isn't in Fort Worth (which I know isn't even in consideration), I'd prefer it stay in Arlington. I just think it's ridiculous that 20+ years after it's opened the closest real bar is a 20-30 minute walk away unless you're looking to party down at Joe's Crab Shack.

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And if I'm the Rangers organization I certainly take that into account when true negotiations come up -- your residents don't find it significant enough to try and push for public transportation to and from the Ballpark and/or developing the surrounding area with places to spend money?

That's fine. We'll flirt with a city that does.

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Remember, Jerry wanted to build the Death Star in Dallas, but the city balked. Who knows how the council and people will react to something like this.

I think this whole conversation is pretty academic, as in 2030, the Rangers will still be playing in Arlington and meaningful convenient public transportation from both cities will still not exist. Other development... we'll see.

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Unless this Texas Live things turns out to be a huge flop, the Rangers will be in Arlington for the foreseeable future

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Until any Arlington development doesn't turn out to be a huge flop, it's hard to believe Texas Live won't be.

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The thought process in Arlington is something like this...

Whether any individual or group of individuals realizes they're there, doesn't want to admit it, or just doesn't enjoy what Arlington has...the Highlands, the bars, restaurants, and hotels around the entertainment district, and the new things downtown stay busy and are flat out crowded when there are ball games or other events at the stadiums.

Unless we're going back to Six Flags mall some 20 years ago, I'm not sure what the "huge flops" have been in Arlington---and let's be honest, the Internet has killed malls in every city, in every state. But on that note, The Parks Mall stays busy and has had stable tenancy for many years.

We're all disappointed the plans with pre-bankruptcy Tom Hicks and the Rangers got poopooed and yes, if this development never happens, we'll be disappointed, too.

As far as trains, the folks in north Arlington close to the stadium are usually happy to drive the 3-5 miles to the multiple train stops just north of the city limits. I am a big fan of public transportation and I want more, but Texas as a whole as do most newer states and cities are naturally adverse to building such systems as they're expensive and not well-used, in part to our extreme urban sprawl. DFW as a whole is miles ahead of most cities in this region---hell, Austin can't get anything worth a darn built and they're a liberal-ish city and poster child of urban gridlock. It's just tough and a train along I-30 through Arlington just isn't a time saver for many patrons of the Ballpark.

I've said before I want a train closer to the Ballpark but DFW is going to have to change its residential development model before public transportation will ever be a real success. Building endless single-family home suburbs just doesn't bode well for public transportation. It's iist inefficient and people in Texas are well trained to just hop in their car and use our ample highway systems.

I want a bus system in Arlington but even then I unfortunately have to recognize its limited utility given the layout of Arlington and no one uses the few that Arlington has installed.

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They're scared of the unwashed masses streaming in if they add public transportation, as if Arlington is some city on the hill.

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No.

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As I said before I'll concede that you know the area and politics of the area better than I do... but how many Major League Ballparks do not have multiple bars and restaurants within easy walking distance of the entrances/exits and also not have public transportation that drops right near the stadium?

I imagine it's a very short list.

And don't get me wrong, if the stadium isn't in Fort Worth (which I know isn't even in consideration), I'd prefer it stay in Arlington. I just think it's ridiculous that 20+ years after it's opened the closest real bar is a 20-30 minute walk away unless you're looking to party down at Joe's Crab Shack.

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I think it's many ballparks that you've got to walk more than 20-30 minutes to find the kind of bar district I think you're looking for.

Even New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, Washington...you've got to do some walking, if there's even something to walk to.

If there is that robust bar district, usually the stadium came to it, the bars were already there, or the stadium is really old and the bars have grown up with the stadium over decades and decades.

I want everything you want, but I really don't think the bar and restaurant situation near the Ballpark in Arlington is that different than much of the league.