I know we've been having this discussion on the Rangers thread, but i think this warrants it's own thread.

Two full months into the season, here's where we stand - sorted on games played:



Fielder is batting a cool .192 and bringing no power at all. Yes he was boo'd last night because he looked helpless at the plate. Moreland is bad too - but at least he hits for a little more power and brings a defensive element to 1st base. Fielder is bringing nothing right now.

I'm thinking the Rangers give him until the ASB to right the ship - I know, that seems too long, but his contract kind of mandates that you HAVE to give him every opportunity to become a productive citizen. The Rangers are on the hook for $18 MM through the 2020 season - that's four full seasons after this one.

So what are the options if he doesn't come around? Help me out on these with your thoughts.

1. Keep hoping he comes around - you then have this permanent out in your lineup, not to mention a roster spot that could go to someone more productive. For four more years. No one likes that.

2. Put on DL and flush money down the toilet - attractive to us since it isn't our money. I doubt the owners are keen on that idea. And keep in mind sunk costs like that restrict the team's ability to sign other guys. There is a budget somewhere. If we choose #2, we are choosing to hamstring management in pursuing free agents in the future.

3. Trade him - hahahahaha. Seriously, the only way to trade him is to pay a big part of his contract. But wouldn't that be better than paying all of it? Frankly, don't the LA Angels look a little smarter today getting us to pick up ANY of Josh Hamilton's contract? When trading Fielder, whatever we get back is at best a bag of magic beans and some silverware. Would someone be willing to pick up $3 MM a year to take a flyer on him? At least then we're only out $15 MM a year.

4. Hire the Mafia to..... - naw.

As much as we all would like to see #2 above, there are implications to the team for doing that. And I think when faced with the grim reality of what "SIT FIELDER DOWN" means financially, we can understand why the Rangers are trying to get something - ANYTHING - from him.

Give him some extra incentive and tell him that he will now be compensated in Twinkies and not cash.

I'd bench Fielder, play Gallo and see how he looks. If Gallo has matured enough to hold his own better than Fielder (low bar), I'm pursuing option 4 and salvaging what $ I can. That may be later this season or the offseason, but once a viable alternative is evident, I'm moving on.

With that BA, that would be an improvement to the Astros' daily lineup.

As an Astros fan, I would just plug him in the lineup everyday until he works out of it. Even if it takes the rest of the season.

We know that's what the Astros would do. They are doing it right now and his name is Carlos Gomez. And he's far from the first in recent years.

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We know that's what the Astros would do. They are doing it right now and his name is Carlos Gomez. And he's far from the first in recent years.

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Unfortunately, you are correct. The only thing different is that Gomez can offer something defensively.

Obviously I don't watch the Rangers much but can they let Profar play 1B and let Fielder DH?

Profar made some damn nice plays over there the other night and that lets Profar and Odor in the lineup at the same time.

Seems like the Rangers lineup is strong enough to hide Fielder until he figures it out.

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I'm pursuing option 4.....

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Fielder DH's the majority of the time he plays -- he conceded playing defense to Mitch as he's the significantly better defender.

You can't hide a guy like Prince as he is a negative defensively, with the bat, or on the basepaths. Even when he does get on base, he's a basepath clogger.

He has little to no value in a trade right now as we'd be paying so much of the salary it's not worth it.

What I would do (and what I hope has already been set in motion) is abandon it from a "keep him happy" standpoint and start moving it to a "production requirement" standpoint. Sure, it's dangerous in regards to reuining the relationship, but you can't allow him to drag down the entire team with his play. Tell him he has until X Date or X # at-bats to start hitting above a certain average. If he does not reach that point, then he will be demoted to the minors to play every-day. If he declines the assignment, then that's out in the public and you sit him on the bench and just burn the roster spot. So the only risk is the relationship with the big league squad. Tell him if he starts hitting over a certain average over a certain # of at-bats in the minors that he'll be brought back up.

If he fails in the minors, well... then he wasn't going to help the big league squad and you've at least made room for producers.

If he produces in the minors, then at least you know he isn't all the way broken.


It's going to potentially wreck the relationship with him, but you approach it from a #'s standpoint. If he demands a trade then you tell him that if he can find a team willing to take on at least half of his salary then you will make it happen. If/when he is unable to do that, you basically have showed him that no one is willing to pay for his services, so if Texas is going to continue to do so then it will require him living up to a fraction of his contract for him stay on the big league roster... and if he can't do that, he is more than welcome to discuss with the player's union a restructuring of his contract to take less money so that a team would be willing to take him on (read: not gonna happen).


TLDR-non-DallasAg-length-post:

Prince, you get 60 more at-bats. Hit over 0.245 in those at-bats and we'll keep you in the lineup most days. If you don't, you're being demoted to the minors for 100 or so at-bats.

I mean....I know he's struggled this season, but you don't think someone would claim him if you DFA him?

No one will claim him if he's waived - hell, the Rangers may have already tried.

If like the idea of sending him down. Make life miserable for him so that he either starts hitting or is begging to leave.

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I mean....I know he's struggled this season, but you don't think someone would claim him if you DFA him?

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Not a chance.

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No one will claim him if he's waived - hell, the Rangers may have already tried.

If like the idea of sending him down. Make life miserable for him so that he either starts hitting or is begging to leave.

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From all accounts he hasn't been that big a complainer about the whole situation so I'm not so much wanting to "make life miserable" for him, but at some point he has to come to the realization that he either needs to produce, admit that he's hurt, or be sent down to work things out.

Problem is as mentioned, even if he is "begging to leave", what can he or the Rangers really do? No one is taking that contract. He's not going to lessen the contract. MLBPA wouldn't let him lessen it even if he wanted to.

All he can do is "ask" for them to trade him to a team that will let him play every day. But the only teams that will allow him to do that are ones that would take him a shot on him at $12m/year for the next 4.5 years... not $24m/year.

He can't force the Rangers to trade him for pennies on the dollar. The problem comes in that you don't want to be known as an organization that "imprisons" their players... It would be a Josh Hamilton-type situation -- is Texas willing to pay $60m+ to make Prince go away?

Sorry, if we're talking eating that kind of money then I'm going to keep my property and let him see what he can do in the minor leagues...

Put another way -- player feelings and team reputation among the league aside -- is saving $15-$20m over the next 4.5 seasons worth a shot at Prince fixing himself (even to where his trade value is raised) in the minors? Hell, I think he's broken but I'd take a $4.5m/year flier on him maybe bouncing back.

Is it nearly impossible for him to lose weight? How does a modern-day non-football player justify looking like that?

he's hitting .300 in the past 3 games!! the prince fielder redemption train is leaving the station!!

He has gone 8 for 11 against McHugh starting today. If he was ever going to turn it around, then this is the Rangers chance. If he doesn't do anything today, then you might have to put him out to pasture.

FWIW - Evan Grant tweeted earlier that Price CANNOT be sent down to the minors. Didn't explain why he said that.

Oh hey. Lookee there, Prince.

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FWIW - Evan Grant tweeted earlier that Price CANNOT be sent down to the minors. Didn't explain why he said that.

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He was referencing Fielder's service time.

Players with 5 or more years of MLB service cannot be sent to the minor leagues without the player's consent. If the player does not consent, the team has to keep the player on their roster or otherwise release the player.

Released or sent down, the team still has to pay the player under the terms of his contract.

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No one will claim him if he's waived - hell, the Rangers may have already tried.

If like the idea of sending him down. Make life miserable for him so that he either starts hitting or is begging to leave.

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I'm not sure Fielder would let that happen---being sent to the Rangers' minor league system, that is.

When someone with Fielder's experience and certainly career is DFA'd, its much more often than not the end of the line for that player with that organization.



And I get it. I'd personally elect for free agency, go sign with some other organization, and give it a shot there.

Someone will grab free agent Fielder for peanuts on the dollar (and stick the Rangers with the rest of the bill.) Fielder shouldn't care, he'll still get paid and have a chance to start over and redeem himself somewhere.

This is my biggest gripe with guaranteed MLB contracts.

Other than personal pride, Fielder doesn't really have a lot on the line here. He's going to get his $$$ regardless.

I much prefer the way NFL contracts are structured. If you are a star you will get a huge signing bonus and will also get paid very well annually. But if you don't produce, the team can cut their losses.

This is why I would rarely if ever take on a 20+ million contract for players who are 30+. Right now we've got 2 with Fielder and Choo. Its just not worth it to pay premium $$$ to players who are in their waning years.

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FWIW - Evan Grant tweeted earlier that Price CANNOT be sent down to the minors. Didn't explain why he said that.

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He CAN be, he just has to accept it.

The idea is that if he is serious about improving and "trying everything" (as he says he is doing), then he shouldn't decline a few weeks in the minors to get his stroke back.

And if he does object to it because of his ego, then it's clear he's more about himself than the team and you make sure that it's leaked that he refused the demotion.

You tell him the alternative to that is he's sitting the bench and playing once a week.

Again, it's a last ditch effort -- but you can't let a guy hitting sub-0.200 just "figure it out" all season long to the detriment of your ballclub.

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This is my biggest gripe with guaranteed MLB contracts.

Other than personal pride, Fielder doesn't really have a lot on the line here. He's going to get his $$$ regardless.

I much prefer the way NFL contracts are structured. If you are a star you will get a huge signing bonus and will also get paid very well annually. But if you don't produce, the team can cut their losses.

This is why I would rarely if ever take on a 20+ million contract for players who are 30+. Right now we've got 2 with Fielder and Choo. Its just not worth it to pay premium $$$ to players who are in their waning years.

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Well, MLB teams are given a lot of control that NFL teams, for example, are not given.

Guaranteed contracts are the cost of not having to pay guys more than minimum wage until they're a 3-year veteran...which could be potentially 8 or even 11 years into their time with your organization.

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And if he does object to it because of his ego, then it's clear he's more about himself than the team and you make sure that it's leaked that he refused the demotion.

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A negative PR effort against Fielder would only serve to have an unhappy Fielder in the Rangers' clubhouse or cost the Rangers money.

Shame that Crash had to be shuffled on. He's only hitting .220 but that's better than Fielder or that spare Moreland and he's got more Homers than the 2 of them together.

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And if he does object to it because of his ego, then it's clear he's more about himself than the team and you make sure that it's leaked that he refused the demotion.

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A negative PR effort against Fielder would only serve to have an unhappy Fielder in the Rangers' clubhouse or cost the Rangers money.

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Which is why it was stated as a last ditch effort.

This idea that you have to keep a guy happy and in the lineup if he is hitting below 0.200 all season long is ridiculous. If Texas approached a guy who is dragging down the team and asked him to go take a few weeks in the minors to work on his stroke and he refused, the PR backlash would be against Fielder, not Texas.

The more likely option is that Moreland is dealt. Don't be surprised to see him and Tolleson shipped at the deadline for bull pen help. The Rangers brass has already stated that they have no intention of bringing him back next season. Historically, this is an anomaly for Fielder, but Moreland is in the last year of his deal and is easy to dump.

If you want to move Fielder, it would need to be an offseason move where Texas would need to eat a significant portion of his salary.

Also, remember how bad Choo was the first half of last year? It made what Fielder is doing look like the second coming of Mantle and Choo rebounded hard after the break. Don't be surprised to see Fielder do the something of that sort.

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A negative PR effort against Fielder would only serve to have an unhappy Fielder in the Rangers' clubhouse or cost the Rangers money.

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Which is why it was stated as a last ditch effort.

This idea that you have to keep a guy happy and in the lineup if he is hitting below 0.200 all season long is ridiculous. If Texas approached a guy who is dragging down the team and asked him to go take a few weeks in the minors to work on his stroke and he refused, the PR backlash would be against Fielder, not Texas.

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It shouldn't be a last ditch effort. It shouldn't be any anytime effort. It wouldn't do the Rangers any good and could hurt them.

I didn't say keep him in the lineup every night. Heck, I didn't say don't talk to him about going to the minors. A lot of space between keeping him in the lineup and making him out in the media to be a bad guy.

I'm just saying the Rangers would be best served to handle it as amicably and privately as possible.

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Also, remember how bad Choo was the first half of last year? It made what Fielder is doing look like the second coming of Mantle

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Choo through June 9th of 2015: 0.246 BA, 762 OPS

Fielder through June 9th of 2016: 0.193 BA, 567 OPS

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Also, remember how bad Choo was the first half of last year? It made what Fielder is doing look like the second coming of Mantle

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Choo through June 9th of 2015: 0.246 BA, 762 OPS

Fielder through June 9th of 2016: 0.193 BA, 567 OPS

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Interesting. I guess Choo starting coming out of that slump a little sooner than popular opinion. I just remember him batting .090 for a while and the public flogging he took in April and much of May. He literally went from the worst player in baseball to the best over the course of one season.

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The more likely option is that Moreland is dealt. Don't be surprised to see him and Tolleson shipped at the deadline for bull pen help. The Rangers brass has already stated that they have no intention of bringing him back next season. Historically, this is an anomaly for Fielder, but Moreland is in the last year of his deal and is easy to dump.

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I personally wouldn't trade a good bullpen guy for Moreland. I've said for years he's a dime a dozen player and the way he's performed this season, everyone has a baker's dozen of Moreland. I didn't think there would be much of a market this past off-season, but I would have tried to trade him then, if you were ever going to try to trade him, and sell high.

I suppose that's a bit of hyperbole, but that's kind of how I feel.

That he's been a regular all this time just speaks to some of the desperation for finding a power-hitter to drive in runs for the club. That same search was surely part of the motivation for trading for Fielder.

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The more likely option is that Moreland is dealt. Don't be surprised to see him and Tolleson shipped at the deadline for bull pen help. The Rangers brass has already stated that they have no intention of bringing him back next season. Historically, this is an anomaly for Fielder, but Moreland is in the last year of his deal and is easy to dump.

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I personally wouldn't trade a good bullpen guy for Moreland. I've said for years he's a dime a dozen player and the way he's performed this season, everyone has a baker's dozen of Moreland. I didn't think there would be much of a market this past off-season, but I would have tried to trade him then, if you were ever going to try to trade him, and sell high.

I suppose that's a bit of hyperbole, but that's kind of how I feel.

That he's been a regular all this time just speaks to some of the desperation for finding a power-hitter to drive in runs for the club. That same search was surely part of the motivation for trading for Fielder.

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While I agree, remember what the Rangers have gotten for guys in the past. Crash was considered an abominable failure and I still know people who hate him so much that still are glad he was traded. It's almost like Bostonians with the Seguin trade.

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A negative PR effort against Fielder would only serve to have an unhappy Fielder in the Rangers' clubhouse or cost the Rangers money.

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Which is why it was stated as a last ditch effort.

This idea that you have to keep a guy happy and in the lineup if he is hitting below 0.200 all season long is ridiculous. If Texas approached a guy who is dragging down the team and asked him to go take a few weeks in the minors to work on his stroke and he refused, the PR backlash would be against Fielder, not Texas.

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It shouldn't be a last ditch effort. It shouldn't be any anytime effort. It wouldn't do the Rangers any good and could hurt them.

I didn't say keep him in the lineup every night. Heck, I didn't say don't talk to him about going to the minors. A lot of space between keeping him in the lineup and making him out in the media to be a bad guy.

I'm just saying the Rangers would be best served to handle it as amicably and privately as possible.

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If Prince's ego keeps him from allowing the Rangers to try and get him fixed with some minor league at-bats, then Prince's ego needs to be put in check a bit, and one way to potentially do that is to allow it to be known that he thinks he is above working on things in the minors.

Again, it would be a last ditch effort -- but when the alternative is having a guy putting up one of the worst regular seasons of all-time for an every-day player who refuses to actually try something difference, well, you turn the screws a bit.

This idea that the Rangers need to completely coddle their $20m/yr investment and walk on eggshells around him and do exactly what he wants to keep him happy is lunacy. If Prince isn't producing, a "happy Prince" doesn't really matter. Any trade value he has is tied to his production and how much salary we are picking up. The positives of getting his black hole of a bat out of the lineup would far outweigh the negatives of "unhappy Prince".

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Also, remember how bad Choo was the first half of last year? It made what Fielder is doing look like the second coming of Mantle

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Choo through June 9th of 2015: 0.246 BA, 762 OPS

Fielder through June 9th of 2016: 0.193 BA, 567 OPS

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Interesting. I guess Choo starting coming out of that slump a little sooner than popular opinion. I just remember him batting .090 for a while and the public flogging he took in April and much of May. He literally went from the worst player in baseball to the best over the course of one season.

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You got unlucky with your timing.

Choo's average fell to 0.225 by the end of June and it never hit 0.246 again until August 27.


It was .096 at the end of April and 0.194 as late as May 11.