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Also, remember how bad Choo was the first half of last year? It made what Fielder is doing look like the second coming of Mantle

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Choo through June 9th of 2015: 0.246 BA, 762 OPS

Fielder through June 9th of 2016: 0.193 BA, 567 OPS

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Interesting. I guess Choo starting coming out of that slump a little sooner than popular opinion. I just remember him batting .090 for a while and the public flogging he took in April and much of May. He literally went from the worst player in baseball to the best over the course of one season.

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Choo had an absolutely dreadful April... He was quite productive in May.

Fielder has been bad all season.

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Again, it would be a last ditch effort -- but when the alternative is having a guy putting up one of the worst regular seasons of all-time for an every-day player who refuses to actually try something difference, well, you turn the screws a bit.

This idea that the Rangers need to completely coddle their $20m/yr investment and walk on eggshells around him and do exactly what he wants to keep him happy is lunacy. If Prince isn't producing, a "happy Prince" doesn't really matter. Any trade value he has is tied to his production and how much salary we are picking up. The positives of getting his black hole of a bat out of the lineup would far outweigh the negatives of "unhappy Prince".

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Its like that Simon and Garfunkel song...you're ostensibly hearing, but not listening.

Again, the alternative is not to coddle him, or even keep him in the every day lineup, and I'm not condoning that in any way.

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A negative PR effort against Fielder would only serve to have an unhappy Fielder in the Rangers' clubhouse or cost the Rangers money.

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Which is why it was stated as a last ditch effort.

This idea that you have to keep a guy happy and in the lineup if he is hitting below 0.200 all season long is ridiculous. If Texas approached a guy who is dragging down the team and asked him to go take a few weeks in the minors to work on his stroke and he refused, the PR backlash would be against Fielder, not Texas.

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It shouldn't be a last ditch effort. It shouldn't be any anytime effort. It wouldn't do the Rangers any good and could hurt them.

I didn't say keep him in the lineup every night. Heck, I didn't say don't talk to him about going to the minors. A lot of space between keeping him in the lineup and making him out in the media to be a bad guy.

I'm just saying the Rangers would be best served to handle it as amicably and privately as possible.

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If Prince's ego keeps him from allowing the Rangers to try and get him fixed with some minor league at-bats, then Prince's ego needs to be put in check a bit, and one way to potentially do that is to allow it to be known that he thinks he is above working on things in the minors.

Again, it would be a last ditch effort -- but when the alternative is having a guy putting up one of the worst regular seasons of all-time for an every-day player who refuses to actually try something difference, well, you turn the screws a bit.

This idea that the Rangers need to completely coddle their $20m/yr investment and walk on eggshells around him and do exactly what he wants to keep him happy is lunacy. If Prince isn't producing, a "happy Prince" doesn't really matter. Any trade value he has is tied to his production and how much salary we are picking up. The positives of getting his black hole of a bat out of the lineup would far outweigh the negatives of "unhappy Prince".

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To play devil's advocate, at some point in the careers of great baseball players, there will be at least one "extended slump". When you've had nothing but success your entire career, it's difficult to deal with massive struggles during a 2-3 month span. I've never heard of struggling stars being sent down, but I'm not opposed to the usual solution in these scenarios, which is to sit the player for a week or two.

Moreland should've been traded last season. Obviously hard during the division race, but by then/now we know what Moreland is. No reason to have him on this roster, especially with Gallo there waiting.

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Again, it would be a last ditch effort -- but when the alternative is having a guy putting up one of the worst regular seasons of all-time for an every-day player who refuses to actually try something difference, well, you turn the screws a bit.

This idea that the Rangers need to completely coddle their $20m/yr investment and walk on eggshells around him and do exactly what he wants to keep him happy is lunacy. If Prince isn't producing, a "happy Prince" doesn't really matter. Any trade value he has is tied to his production and how much salary we are picking up. The positives of getting his black hole of a bat out of the lineup would far outweigh the negatives of "unhappy Prince".

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Its like that Simon and Garfunkel song...you're ostensibly hearing, but not listening.

Again, the alternative is not to coddle him, or even keep him in the every day lineup, and I'm not condoning that in any way.

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No, I think it's more you're confusing leaking something to the press about Prince declining a minor league assignment as an "all out negative PR blitz".

If any of us were Fielder, there is a 0% chance that we'd accept a demotion to the minors. For those that haven't played baseball, it's a chasmic difference in lifestyles. And not for the better.

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A negative PR effort against Fielder would only serve to have an unhappy Fielder in the Rangers' clubhouse or cost the Rangers money.

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Which is why it was stated as a last ditch effort.

This idea that you have to keep a guy happy and in the lineup if he is hitting below 0.200 all season long is ridiculous. If Texas approached a guy who is dragging down the team and asked him to go take a few weeks in the minors to work on his stroke and he refused, the PR backlash would be against Fielder, not Texas.

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It shouldn't be a last ditch effort. It shouldn't be any anytime effort. It wouldn't do the Rangers any good and could hurt them.

I didn't say keep him in the lineup every night. Heck, I didn't say don't talk to him about going to the minors. A lot of space between keeping him in the lineup and making him out in the media to be a bad guy.

I'm just saying the Rangers would be best served to handle it as amicably and privately as possible.

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If Prince's ego keeps him from allowing the Rangers to try and get him fixed with some minor league at-bats, then Prince's ego needs to be put in check a bit, and one way to potentially do that is to allow it to be known that he thinks he is above working on things in the minors.

Again, it would be a last ditch effort -- but when the alternative is having a guy putting up one of the worst regular seasons of all-time for an every-day player who refuses to actually try something difference, well, you turn the screws a bit.

This idea that the Rangers need to completely coddle their $20m/yr investment and walk on eggshells around him and do exactly what he wants to keep him happy is lunacy. If Prince isn't producing, a "happy Prince" doesn't really matter. Any trade value he has is tied to his production and how much salary we are picking up. The positives of getting his black hole of a bat out of the lineup would far outweigh the negatives of "unhappy Prince".

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To play devil's advocate, at some point in the careers of great baseball players, there will be at least one "extended slump". When you've had nothing but success your entire career, it's difficult to deal with massive struggles during a 2-3 month span. I've never heard of struggling stars being sent down, but I'm not opposed to the usual solution in these scenarios, which is to sit the player for a week or two.

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No doubt, but also keep in mind that most of this is with an assumption that the "slump" continues. 2-months of bad play you start to get a bit cranky but you don't hit the panic button yet. But if we're at the all-star break and nothing has changed, then it's time for some drastic measures... I guess the option I would propose to Prince at that point would be: "We're going to sit you for a couple of weeks or you can go play everyday and work on things in the minors for a couple of weeks".

If this is still going on in a month, the idea that "oh we'll just give him a few days off here and there or maybe we'll work him in at 1st base to try and change things up" is going to change things is crazy.

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No, I think it's more you're confusing leaking something to the press about Prince declining a minor league assignment as an "all out negative PR blitz".

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I'm well aware of the language you used. "Leaking."

I believe my language was "a negative PR effort."

No "all out" or "blitz."

And again, I don't think leaking anything would be beneficial to the Rangers. You go to the media with resolutions and solutions, you don't leak negative comments about discussions with a player, especially one you owe another $100 million*** to.

***Alex Rodriguez and that situation the exception.

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If any of us were Fielder, there is a 0% chance that we'd accept a demotion to the minors. For those that haven't played baseball, it's a chasmic difference in lifestyles. And not for the better.

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I disagree. Now, I certainly don't think we'd be fine with riding along on a bus through Bum****, IA... But players accept a "demotion to the minors" all the time -- it's done under the guise of a DL-stint and rehab assignment.

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While I agree, remember what the Rangers have gotten for guys in the past. Crash was considered an abominable failure and I still know people who hate him so much that still are glad he was traded. It's almost like Bostonians with the Seguin trade.

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Baltimore got 3 or 4 years of control over Davis before he would be a free agent plus Tommy Hunter who was also young, and had shown to be a somewhat capable MLB starting pitcher.

Maybe they can work something out. We'll see, I guess.

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I disagree. Now, I certainly don't think we'd be fine with riding along on a bus through Bum****, IA... But players accept a "demotion to the minors" all the time -- it's done under the guise of a DL-stint and rehab assignment.

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Yeah, and fair, but with the need for league approval, its always kind of hard to tell when a guy is "faking" an injury and maybe that doesn't happen as much as we sometimes think. I don't know.

Anyways, I think folks are thinking more long-term. DL and rehab have a definite end date for the player. A rehab assignment would give him what? 20 days with a minor league team tops and then he's back whether he's fixed anything or not.

20 days is all you'd really be considering. I'm not under the impression that you're going to have Prince playing minor league ball for multiple months of the season.

When dealing with an unproductive lardass like Fielder (or Sandoval), I just don't understand why teams can't just have them humping up and down the stands while wearing a rucksack in mid day heat until he drops the weight.

To me it doesn't seem like much of an issue to get him to drop 15 - 20 lbs and gain some quickness.

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If any of us were Fielder, there is a 0% chance that we'd accept a demotion to the minors. For those that haven't played baseball, it's a chasmic difference in lifestyles. And not for the better.

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He makes roughly $130,000 every time he waddles his lard ass up to home plate, regardless if he does that any Arlington, Frisco, Round Rock, or Bum****, IA

Does he still get his full MLB salary if he's at AAA or AA? I know at one time, if a guy started the season on the major league club and got sent down, they were paid 2/3 of their MLB salary for the duration of their stay? Or does that only apply to guys making the team out of spring training while on a minor league contract?

Some of these posts are incredibly incompetent. Is prince struggling? Yes. Is it serious enough to change things up? Yes, and Banny has. I personally think Felder is starting to get out of the funk now. Has had some hard hit balls the last couple games. He handled his benching well imo. Stated that he was not happy about it but understood it... he obviously cares. Also you guys know he's vegan right? That is seriously just how he's built as a human. He does like ufc training in off season. The only reason some on here have their panties in a wad is because Profar is showing out that he's the stud everyone thought he was prior to injuries. The question is, who do you trade Odor, Andrus, or Profar? I really have no idea. They all bring something that winning baseball teams need. Luckily Profar cool with super utility role this yr. Next year will be a different story. Moreland will be gone. Gallo will be at 1st and Prince will be DH.

Also do we resign Darvish? Guy is top 5 good when healthy but when will that be if ever?

What is 'like ufc'?

The point of this thread was to show the people who shout "bench Fielder" do not understand it isn't that easy. The Rangers can't just eat that much money - not unless you want to cripple the club's ability to sign anyone for the next 4-5 years. They need him to be like David Ortiz for these remaining years of his contract.

* Mostly singles away from the shift and a few hard hit guesses does not show he's coming out of a "funk". We go through this every time Fielder has even mediocre results at the plate. He had 9 extra-base-hits (2B/HR) in May.
We've got a week left in June and he has 4. This stopped being a "funk" a long time ago. He's hitting for no power.

*The problem with Prince isn't just what to do about Profar/Odor/Elvis, it's also what to do with the production hole in the lineup and Joey Gallo -- who has had some rumblings that he's not exactly thrilled that he's not getting the shot that deserves. We going to wait until he loses all his value waiting on Prince to "snap out of it" the next 3 years?

*While dumping his salary certainly doesn't help your team's ability to sign free agents, paying that salary and leaving 1/9th of your lineup as a black hole and preventing your young talent from moving up is worse.

* Prince was a vegetarian for like 3 months.

* David Ortiz *never* had an extended downward power slide like this in his career ever.

For those keeping track at home, if you stack Fielder's 2nd half from 2015 and his first half in 2016 to get close to a full season's worth of work, he's hit .235 with 14 HR's.

That also happens to mirror what he's been doing in the month of June so far (.238 with 2 HR's).

He is what he is. The money is not really relevant. The only decision is whether you're willing to risk a division race by keeping that hole in your lineup consistently when you have other options. No one is taking his salary, and I just don't think you can expect him to be much more than what he's done for a year now.

Fat guys tend to trail off quickly at his age. It's not like this hasn't been seen before.

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The money is not really relevant.

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Only because it's not your money.

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*While dumping his salary certainly doesn't help your team's ability to sign free agents, paying that salary and leaving 1/9th of your lineup as a black hole and preventing your young talent from moving up is worse.

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What exactly do you propose?

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Some of these posts are incredibly incompetent. Is prince struggling? Yes. Is it serious enough to change things up? Yes, and Banny has. I personally think Felder is starting to get out of the funk now. Has had some hard hit balls the last couple games. He handled his benching well imo. Stated that he was not happy about it but understood it... he obviously cares. Also you guys know he's vegan right? That is seriously just how he's built as a human. He does like ufc training in off season. The only reason some on here have their panties in a wad is because Profar is showing out that he's the stud everyone thought he was prior to injuries. The question is, who do you trade Odor, Andrus, or Profar? I really have no idea. They all bring something that winning baseball teams need. Luckily Profar cool with super utility role this yr. Next year will be a different story. Moreland will be gone. Gallo will be at 1st and Prince will be DH.

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This reads like a post off a fat acceptance website.

Who gives a **** if he's vegan (he's not). Calories in vs Calories out. You can eat nothing but healthy **** and if you eat 3000 calories a day you're still going to put on weight.

Saying he's built like this naturally is a total write off excuse. No one is built like that naturally. Some people have larger frames, yes. Broader shoulders, etc. But no one is "naturally" that fat.

I'm with the guy saying to make fielder run bleachers. If it doesn't help him break out of the slump, at least it will help up his life expectancy so he can live off all that dough we're paying him to do Mendoza line **** for longer.

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For those keeping track at home, if you stack Fielder's 2nd half from 2015 and his first half in 2016 to get close to a full season's worth of work, he's hit .235 with 14 HR's.

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Not to nitpick over what stats we're using, but in the last 365 days and 158 games, he is at .247 with 17 home runs and 25 doubles. Every little bit counts and helps.

He's been a bit better lately. If he was still in the major leagues two weeks ago, now that he's hit .262 with a .700 OPS over the past two weeks, he isn't going to go anywhere right now.

But I agree with the larger point. He's going to be hard to move. And that's just the situation. The team has been doing fine. So you just hope that he continues the progress he's been making and hope for the best moving forward.

If on the off-chance he begins to hit anything like he did last year, he'll hardly be a "black hole" anymore.

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*While dumping his salary certainly doesn't help your team's ability to sign free agents, paying that salary and leaving 1/9th of your lineup as a black hole and preventing your young talent from moving up is worse.

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What exactly do you propose?

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Either an extended "DL" trip to see if he can "work on" his swing without being a production-suck on the big league roster or you package him in a deal where you likely eat 80% of his remaining salary.

You continue to pay the guy and hope he figures it out if he's hitting the league average or a little worse.

To continue to pay him while he is putting up a -1.4 WAR and is literally one of the worst everyday players in all of baseball is crazy.

I imagine the thought process right now is to give him probably one more small "reset" as we head into the all-star-break and hope the extended break and "fresh start" of the 2nd half gives him whatever he is lacking (confidence, strength, whatever).

If he doesn't bounce back then, I think it's almost a certainty he gets dumped. Something has to be done with Gallo - because right now the only thing he has left to do is lose value in the minors... So it's either give him a legitimate shot to play in a perfect position (one where you can't do any worse than what you've got), or you trade him and leash yourself to Prince Fielder for the next 3 seasons.

Again, if he was here two weeks ago, he's not going on the DL after hitting .262 and posting a .700 OPS.

Or even better. If he was here a week ago, he's not going on the DL after hitting .313 with a .728 OPS.


I'm sure his next slump is soon, not trying to overly defend Prince Fielder right now, but talk about the DL then. Not now.

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Again, if he was here two weeks ago, he's not going on the DL after hitting .262 and posting a .700 OPS.

Or even better. If he was here a week ago, he's not going on the DL after hitting .313 with a .728 OPS.


I'm sure his next slump is soon, not trying to overly defend Prince Fielder right now, but talk about the DL then. Not now.

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I think it's assumed any DL talk is when he goes on his next prolonged slump (which I think we all assume will happen soon).

But in regards the # of weeks back -- I think the time issue is starting to become more about Gallo than it is Prince -- Gallo has essentially hit his "time served" for team control... So either Gallo comes up (meaning Prince was "DL'd" or salary dumped) or he is moved by the trade deadline.

Otherwise Texas is really playing with fire in regards to a highly coveted prospect with tons of trade value sitting in the minor leagues waiting to lose value for the rest of 2016.

Even if it was my money. I understand the concept of a sunk cost. You have to make the decision as to what is best right now. I'm paying him $20 mill no matter what, so I can pay him $20 million to be a lineup hole or I can pay him $20 mill while he sits and another guy produces.

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Even if it was my money. I understand the concept of a sunk cost. You have to make the decision as to what is best right now. I'm paying him $20 mill no matter what, so I can pay him $20 million to be a lineup hole or I can pay him $20 mill while he sits and another guy produces.

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Yep. Amazing how many people don't understand sunk costs. Don't let one bad decision snowball into another one.

Fielder is hitting .238 in June, with 2 HR. .306 OBP.

While you pay him no matter, it looks like he is trending up.

If you cut him, now... you argue sunk cost. You are looking at $18M X 4 years. $72M. That would be $72M with a 0 ROI and no way to improve on the 0. For 4 years you got ZERO.

He is hitting .238, now.

He has a career .283 / 25 HR guy. Even if he doesn't reach it this year, he could recover next season. OR, you might be able to trade at some point eating less than the $72M.

He was at his absolute lowest worth the past 3 months. A good investor holds a dawg when the value can't get any less... and the cost to hold can't get any higher.

Oh, I wasn't arguing you should cut him. You look to trade him if possible. OR, he rides the pine until he figures it out. If someone else in the organization provides better production, you play them.

If you think Fielder is trending up, then that's a different conversation. But the amount of money he makes has no bearing on playing decisions in a well-run organization.

Also, ROI in the sense of a player (vs. a cash flow projection) can be negative thanks to mistakes, lack of production, and opportunity cost. If you project that confidently, then yes, you cut him today, even if it means "0" ROI over the next four years In your mind.

I think if you're super concerned about Gallo, you cut ties with Moreland a few months early before you do trying something drastic with Fielder.

While I know over the entirety of the season, Moreland has (marginally) been a more productive player than Fielder, Fielder's been about as good as of late and certainly has the stronger history to make me think he could be better for the Rangers in the future.


And while reasonably minds may disagree with the above, I hope I've at least injected Moreland into the conversation because I don't think he should get a pass here. He's also in the way of Gallo, and hardly performed well.



(What I think actually happens is all 3 are on the roster once it expands.)

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I think if you're super concerned about Gallo, you cut ties with Moreland a few months early before you do trying something drastic with Fielder.

While I know over the entirety of the season, Moreland has (marginally) been a more productive player than Fielder, Fielder's been about as good as of late and certainly has the stronger history to make me think he could be better for the Rangers in the future.


And while reasonably minds may disagree with the above, I hope I've at least injected Moreland into the conversation because I don't think he should get a pass here. He's also in the way of Gallo, and hardly performed well.



(What I think actually happens is all 3 are on the roster once it expands.)

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The difference Mitch has been slugging in June while Fielder still sucks. And Mitch has a history of being hot and cold. Now I wouldn't mind trading him in a bit once he keeps heating up and gets us a little more value. But its not a marginal difference between him and Prince lately

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While I know over the entirety of the season, Moreland has (marginally) been a more productive player than Fielder, Fielder's been about as good as of late

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I disagree.

June:

Moreland .271/.328/.576/.904

Fielder .238/.306/.365/.671

Doesn't look close to me. And over the last 7 games, Fielder's OPS hasn't changed and he has 1 double, 1 walk, and 0 HRs.

Moreland can at least play in the field, which opens up a spot for Profar to DH when Beltre, Andrus, and Odor are all playing in the field.