MVP runner-up.
hit .228 in the second half
hit .228 in the second half
Aaron Judge
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Last: 8 yr ago by TXAggie2011
Think Altuve wins it. And is the odds-on favorite for the Gold Glove/Silver Slugger sweep at 2nd.
Pure #s say Judge.
Yikes
Least clutch player of all time.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/aaron-judge-has-been-the-least-clutch-player-on-record/
Least clutch player of all time.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/aaron-judge-has-been-the-least-clutch-player-on-record/
Baseball Reference has Altuve at a 8.4 WAR with Judge at 8.1.
the HR to RBI ratio tells the story.
114 RBI on 52 HR's is just not that impressive.
I'm not a big Mookie Betts fan, but he posted 102 RBI on just 24 home runs. That is impressive. Sometimes a single or sac fly will get the job done
114 RBI on 52 HR's is just not that impressive.
I'm not a big Mookie Betts fan, but he posted 102 RBI on just 24 home runs. That is impressive. Sometimes a single or sac fly will get the job done
52 home runs are always impressive.
W said:
the HR to RBI ratio tells the story.
114 RBI on 52 HR's is just not that impressive.
I'm not a big Mookie Betts fan, but he posted 102 RBI on just 24 home runs. That is impressive. Sometimes a single or sac fly will get the job done
You're more impressed by the guy who created fewer runs (in more plate appearances) because the HR to RBI ratio is better?
Judge led the league in runs scored and had 12 more RBI than Betts. I'm actually a big fan of Mookie Betts, but isn't the point of baseball to score more runs?
Preface I'm a lifelong Houstonian. At this point I fully expect the I-95 east coast bias to vote judge in as the MVP. Which will be an obvious crime given what altuve has done this season and the last 3 seasons (I'm well aware it's a season not career award) But just like Biggio becoming the first ever non roider 3000 hit member to not go first ballot, I'm certain Houston will get the shaft again
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.
The problem for Altuve is that there were like 5 other Astros that had career years this season. That and voters still like the traditional homerun/rbi guys.
I don't think there will be bias, I think the Astros were just simply too good this year to have ONE of their guys be MVP.
I don't think there will be bias, I think the Astros were just simply too good this year to have ONE of their guys be MVP.
Jose was the only guy to truly stay healthy on his team........ I'm sorry I don't buy the "You're team is too good for you to win the MVP" argument.
Jose was the best overall player on both sides of the game this season. If he doesn't win, we know why
Jose was the best overall player on both sides of the game this season. If he doesn't win, we know why
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.
this.TXAggie2011 said:W said:
the HR to RBI ratio tells the story.
114 RBI on 52 HR's is just not that impressive.
I'm not a big Mookie Betts fan, but he posted 102 RBI on just 24 home runs. That is impressive. Sometimes a single or sac fly will get the job done
You're more impressed by the guy who created fewer runs (in more plate appearances) because the HR to RBI ratio is better?
Judge led the league in runs scored and had 12 more RBI than Betts. I'm actually a big fan of Mookie Betts, but isn't the point of baseball to score more runs?
W has some strange criticisms of HR to RBI stats
I am not sure how that relates to Altuve winning or not winning the MVP. Are you trying to say he's less valuable because he's on a good team? Usually, that is used to prop up the winner._lefraud_ said:
The problem for Altuve is that there were like 5 other Astros that had career years this season. That and voters still like the traditional homerun/rbi guys.
I don't think there will be bias, I think the Astros were just simply too good this year to have ONE of their guys be MVP.
I don't see Altuve as, and I doubt many outside Houston do either, see Altuve as the obvious choice. Both Judge and Altuve had very similarly impressive seasons, just done in different ways. And all the advanced stats agree.
I love the way Altuve plays, but Judge got it done, too.
Perhaps I'll give the nudge to Altuve for his consistency.
I love the way Altuve plays, but Judge got it done, too.
Perhaps I'll give the nudge to Altuve for his consistency.
In the literal construction of MVP, I think that yeah, there is something to being on a less loaded team and carrying them on your back versus sharing the load more.Farmer1906 said:I am not sure how that relates to Altuve winning or not winning the MVP. Are you trying to say he's less valuable because he's on a good team? Usually, that is used to prop up the winner._lefraud_ said:
The problem for Altuve is that there were like 5 other Astros that had career years this season. That and voters still like the traditional homerun/rbi guys.
I don't think there will be bias, I think the Astros were just simply too good this year to have ONE of their guys be MVP.
No one person carries a team to 101 wins. This isn't basketball where 1 person can have that kind of impact.TXAggie2011 said:In the literal construction of MVP, I think that yeah, there is something to being on a less loaded team and carrying them on your back versus sharing the load more.Farmer1906 said:I am not sure how that relates to Altuve winning or not winning the MVP. Are you trying to say he's less valuable because he's on a good team? Usually, that is used to prop up the winner._lefraud_ said:
The problem for Altuve is that there were like 5 other Astros that had career years this season. That and voters still like the traditional homerun/rbi guys.
I don't think there will be bias, I think the Astros were just simply too good this year to have ONE of their guys be MVP.
Barry Bonds had 3 of the greatest seasons of all time in 01, 02, and 04. The Giants won 90, 95, and 91 those years.
Most years the voters give it to the most outstanding player on a winner team unless the most outstanding is clearly on a bad team. It also helps to be in a large market.
Altuve led the league in hits for the 4th year in a row, (which has never been done before), has an average 60 points higher than Judge, is going to sweep the 2B silver slugger/gold glove AGAIN, and led his team to a division title.
All of that combined with the obvious easy choice of handing Judge the 'consolation prize' of AL RoY makes it hard for me to believe Judge will win it over Altuve. He certainly shouldn't.
All of that combined with the obvious easy choice of handing Judge the 'consolation prize' of AL RoY makes it hard for me to believe Judge will win it over Altuve. He certainly shouldn't.
Altuve should win it
Judge will win it
At least that's how I expect this to turn out.
Judge will win it
At least that's how I expect this to turn out.
So your argument is that since Altuve has been really great for multiple years, and since Judge is a rookie, that Altuve should win?
Altuve is so far ahead of the next best hitter in baseball (Blackmon) that you could add an extra 26 at bats with no hits and he'd still have the best average. Not to mention that his average is a full 65 points higher than Judge's. You could add an extra 128 hitless at bats for Altuve, and he would still lead Judge.
Altuve is the best offensive player in the MLB at his position, an argument that can't be made for Judge (he's far from the best average in RF, and hes got less HRs, less RBIs, lower slugging %, and more SOs than Stanton).
Altuve is also the best defensive player in MLB at his position. Judge is not.
Altuve was a clutch hitter this season, whereas Judge has had the least clutch season of anyone since 1974.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/aaron-judge-has-been-the-least-clutch-player-on-record/
I think voters who are on the fence are going to side with Altuve and justify it with Judge being a shoo-in already for another major award.
Altuve is the best offensive player in the MLB at his position, an argument that can't be made for Judge (he's far from the best average in RF, and hes got less HRs, less RBIs, lower slugging %, and more SOs than Stanton).
Altuve is also the best defensive player in MLB at his position. Judge is not.
Altuve was a clutch hitter this season, whereas Judge has had the least clutch season of anyone since 1974.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/aaron-judge-has-been-the-least-clutch-player-on-record/
I think voters who are on the fence are going to side with Altuve and justify it with Judge being a shoo-in already for another major award.
The problem Houston fans may have is folks look at other stats that Judge leads in by far and not just the stats Altuve leads in by far.
That and it's an AL award so nobody cares about Giancarlo Stanton. 2nd best doesn't mean you are worse than than the best of any other position.
Like I said, I'll give the slight nod to Altuve (which has nothing to do with Judge winning RoY) and we all knew and know where this thread was going so I bow out here.
Good luck Astros fans, maybe my Nationals will see you in the World Series.
That and it's an AL award so nobody cares about Giancarlo Stanton. 2nd best doesn't mean you are worse than than the best of any other position.
Like I said, I'll give the slight nod to Altuve (which has nothing to do with Judge winning RoY) and we all knew and know where this thread was going so I bow out here.
Good luck Astros fans, maybe my Nationals will see you in the World Series.
Fair point about AL/NL
Judge's 2nd half isn't pretty. He hit 22HR but also hit .228 with 31.7% K. He had 55 hits so basically 40% of his hits were HR. It was all or nothing. July he hit .230 and Aug it was .186. For 2 months he was basically Rougned Odor. K or HR.
I still have hope that baseball writers have smartened up these last couple of years and will pay attention to that big chunk of the season. Judge was meteoric the first half. Then the league caught up with him. He had a big Sept but those were 2 bad months.
I still have hope that baseball writers have smartened up these last couple of years and will pay attention to that big chunk of the season. Judge was meteoric the first half. Then the league caught up with him. He had a big Sept but those were 2 bad months.
If Altuve played for the Yankees, and Judge was in Houston .... there would be no question that Altuve would win it
Has there ever been an MVP with over 200 Ks?
iBrad said:
Has there ever been an MVP with over 200 Ks?
I knew someone would do that.
Not sure but Mike Trout won the MVP with an AL most 184 strikeouts in 2014.
He lead the league that yearTXAggie2011 said:
Not sure but Mike Trout won the MVP with an AL most 184 strikeouts in 2014.
Farmer1906 said:He lead the league that yearTXAggie2011 said:
Not sure but Mike Trout won the MVP with an AL most 184 strikeouts in 2014.
Pretty sure that's what "an AL most" means.
_lefraud_ said:Farmer1906 said:He lead the league that yearTXAggie2011 said:
Not sure but Mike Trout won the MVP with an AL most 184 strikeouts in 2014.
Pretty sure that's what "an AL most" means.
I skimmed it.
Most of the time you dumb dumbs aren't interesting enough to read fully.
I was going to let that one go, but at this point, you could have read that entire one whole sentence 10 times over.
Judge had an incredible season, but Judge's July and August are an eyesore when comparing them side by side. Hitting .230 and .185 in consecutive months doesn't scream 'MVP' to me up against Altuve.
Two of my Yankee friends tried to argue with me about who would win the MVP race and neither of them put their money where their mouth was when I offerred a friendly wager.
Two of my Yankee friends tried to argue with me about who would win the MVP race and neither of them put their money where their mouth was when I offerred a friendly wager.
I'm interested, what's the wager?
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