Agreed. It makes zero sense whatsoever. And Parker won an MVP award and was in the top 5 four times. Not to mention, his black ink, gray ink, and HOF monitor numbers are all right at the 'Average HOFer' level. Baines is nowhere close. Plus, Parker provided some defensive value with his cannon of an arm.

yep, Dave Parker...

NL MVP plus four other top 5 finishes

2 NL batting titles

7-time all-star plus all-star game MVP

3 gold gloves

great 1979 postseason for the WS winning Pirates

At one time, JuanGone was the answer to a trivia question: "What is the only 2 time MVP winner not elected to the Baseball HoF?" Now of course he is no longer alone. I guess you could change "not" to "never" and it would still work.

Harold Baines?

Early update:

31 ballots (7.5%)
Rivera - 31(100%)
Edgar - 31(100%) +6
Halladay - 28 (90.3%)
Mussina - 26 (83.9%) +5
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Schilling - 23 (74.2%) +3
Clemens - 21 (67.7%) +1
Bonds - 20 (64.5%) +1
Walker - 20 (64.5%) +5
Vizquel - 17 (54.8%) +4

Hopefully the completely inexcusable election of Harold Baines will lead to guys like Bonds & Clemens picking up more votes.

With Baines in, there is no way Edgar is left off forever.....


Baines is an awful choice. Just an embarrasment.

The precedent set by allowing Baines in is going to be terrible

Thank Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox owner) and Tony LaRussa (White Sox manager when Baines played) for this embarrassment. Both are on the committee that elected him.

Should just go ahead and put Nomar Mazara in there now.

Thinking about other guys that should be in but aren't, and I was reminded of Thurman Munson.

Harold Baines (22 seasons):
H: 2866
BA: .289
RBI: 1628
HR: 384
WAR: 38.7
MVP: 0 (only 2 times in top 10)
ROY: 0
Black Ink: 3 (avg HOF 27)
Gray Ink: 40 (avg HOF 144)
HOF Monitor: 66 (avg HOF 100)

Thurman Munson (11 seasons):
H: 1558
BA: .292
RBI: 701
HR: 113
WAR: 46.1
MVP: 1
ROY: 1
Black Ink: 0 (avg HOF 27)
Gray Ink: 46 (avg HOF 144)
HOF Monitor: 90 (avg HOF 100)

Obviously, any cumulative stats are owned by Baines given that he played 22 seasons compared to Munson's 11. Also, Baines played DH primarily vs Munson playing the most physically demanding position in the game. Even then, he beats Baines in BA, WAR, Gray Ink, HOF Monitor and was also an MVP and ROY. Munson was also an elite defensive player.

Honestly, I'm at a loss as to how Munson isn't in the Hall, especially given that his career was cut short due to a plane crash.

How about Al Oliver?

PacifistAg said:

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I think the real question is, if Baines, why isn't Dale Murphy in?

Harold Baines (22 seasons):
H: 2866
BA: .289
RBI: 1628
HR: 384
WAR: 38.7
MVP: 0 (only 2 times in top 10)
ROY: 0
Black Ink: 3 (avg HOF 27)
Gray Ink: 40 (avg HOF 144)
HOF Monitor: 66 (avg HOF 100)

Dale Murphy (18 seasons):
H: 2111
BA: .265
RBI: 1266
HR: 398
WAR: 46.5
MVP: 2
ROY: 0
Black Ink: 31 (avg HOF 27)
Gray Ink: 147 (avg HOF 144)
HOF Monitor: 116 (avg HOF 100)

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And that is with Dale falling off a cliff offensively after his age 32 season

add Will Clark to the list of guys much more deserving than Harold Baines.

And Don Mattingly

And Bernie Williams

And certainly Vada Pinson

The list of more deserving players is insanely long.

Pirates gettin no respect

Larry Walker, Mark Grace, Todd Helton, Steve Finley, Luis Gonzlez, Johnny Damon, Kenny Lofton, Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey, Miguel Tejada, Torii Hunter, Jimmy Rollins, Jeff Kent...

And the list goes on and on of guys potentially more deserving that Harold Baines.

Scott Rolen, Fred McGriff, Omar Visquel, Andruw Jones, Gary Sheffield, and Hell, might as well throw in Juan Pierre too!

mathguy86 said:

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At one time, JuanGone was the answer to a trivia question: "What is the only 2 time MVP winner not elected to the Baseball HoF?" Now of course he is no longer alone. I guess you could change "not" to "never" and it would still work.

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Dale Murphy and Roger Maris both won back to back, and neither really sniffed Cooperstown.

Jim Edmonds too

and Lance Berkman

more on Munson...

he was a .357 postseason hitter in 129 at-bats. That's very impressive.

also impressive...he had 701 career RBI on just 113 career HR's. He was a lifetime .302 hitter w/RISP

It was early, I was barely awake. There was a bit of hyperbole. Dialing it back.

It's a totally subjective method, and a bit tongue in cheek, but maybe it has some merit... if you weren't excited about getting a guy's baseball card when you opened a pack, then he probably isn't HOF material.

I was at a Christmas party last night with a former teammate of Baines. He said he couldn't believe it when he heard it and in no way does Baines belong in the HOF. He pointed out the veteran's committee shouldn't be able to consider players who never received 10% of the vote.

And then we get these types of voters:

With 7 spots remaining on his ballot, he decided to drop 3 guys he voted for last year off of this year's ballot.

I'm actually okay with a 3-person ballot, if that voter is a 'small Hall' guy and only believes 3 of those candidates are legitimate HOFers. I can see the argument for those 3 he voted for. That said, given that he voted for Edgar, Mussina, and Schilling last year, I doubt that he's a 'small Hall' voter so this doesn't make sense.

I don't disagree with his ballot either, especially if he argues, "I'm voting this way until Bonds & Clemens finally get in". But then he adds Rivera...so yea, it is a bit strange.

To vote for someone one year and not the next, when not maxing our the ballot, makes no sense. Why were they worthy last year and not this?

Now, one could say the same in reverse, but there is more to that. People can gather more info to change their opinion. Many seem to think getting in first ballot or early means something, so hold off voting. Or, people are more likely as one gets near leaving the ballot. I'm not saying I agree with any of those, but they all make more sense than voting for someone then not without anyone taking the spot.

Another reason the HOF is a joke with Baines getting in ahead of guys like Steve Garvey and Dave Parker

Dave Parker was about the most feared hitter in the NL in his prime years before he became a coked up fatty. Very intimidating. I'd love to see him get in.

jja79 said:

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I was at a Christmas party last night with a former teammate of Baines. He said he couldn't believe it when he heard it and in no way does Baines belong in the HOF. He pointed out the veteran's committee shouldn't be able to consider players who never received 10% of the vote.

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Unless it's a cheater who dropped off early because of public sentiment.