If Rocker and Bradford can develop into solid 3-4 type guys I'll consider that a massive win. And maybe Leiter can be a guy you throw out there when guys need an extra days rest.

I think your list is flawed.

Tampa, Oakland, and Miami/Florida are not that.

They all get extra Comp picks, so statistically speaking, you have to consider they get an extra 1st Rounder. You will also find many of their Ps are traded for... when you trade a Top MLB player and get a great prospect (Ragans)... you didn't develop them.

Another consideration is HS vs College. Teams that draft HS SPs.... tend to have a higher ceiling... but more risk. If Oak and Tampa draft College SPs... they get more success, but often lower ceiling Ps.

Last point... drafting a HS SP gives you 4 years to be added to the 40. It is really hard to draft a HS player at 18... put him on the 40 at age 22... then wait for him to get about 600IP total in Minors... and store him until 24 (6 years).

Additionally, if teams were so good at it... why do they have down periods?!

I think if you look deeper, there really aren't that many teams. Even Houston benefitted with the few good pitchers they've had as a statistical insignificant.

Dodgers, Braves, and Cards are probably your best bets... and they tend to draft more Ps that are higher in the Rounds.

Rangers usually spent great picks on hitters.

Great hitters like Justin Foscue?

KT 90 said:

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cmiller00 said:

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Once the game starts it's still baseball.

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Yep. I grew up watching plenty of bad Ranger baseball. This ain't nothing compared to some of teams of the past

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At least those teams were expected to be terrible, had no history of playoff success, and we could blame the crappy ballpark heat for being the reason no free agents wanted to come here.

These guys have no excuse. It's literally won championship and rest on their laurels.

DallasAg 94 said:

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I think your list is flawed.

Tampa, Oakland, and Miami/Florida are not that.

They all get extra Comp picks, so statistically speaking, you have to consider they get an extra 1st Rounder. You will also find many of their Ps are traded for... when you trade a Top MLB player and get a great prospect (Ragans)... you didn't develop them.

Another consideration is HS vs College. Teams that draft HS SPs.... tend to have a higher ceiling... but more risk. If Oak and Tampa draft College SPs... they get more success, but often lower ceiling Ps.

Last point... drafting a HS SP gives you 4 years to be added to the 40. It is really hard to draft a HS player at 18... put him on the 40 at age 22... then wait for him to get about 600IP total in Minors... and store him until 24 (6 years).

Additionally, if teams were so good at it... why do they have down periods?!

I think if you look deeper, there really aren't that many teams. Even Houston benefitted with the few good pitchers they've had as a statistical insignificant.

Dodgers, Braves, and Cards are probably your best bets... and they tend to draft more Ps that are higher in the Rounds.

Rangers usually spent great picks on hitters.

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Tampa has churned out Snell, Matt Garza, Big Game James, Glasnow. That's better than flipping Darren Oliver.

Miami had Beckett, Burnett, Livan Hernandez. The Jose Fernandez kid was going to be a superstar.

Draft picks . . . whatever. Everybody gets a ton of picks. Some teams develop pitching talent, others don't.

Water Boy said:

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If Rocker and Bradford can develop into solid 3-4 type guys I'll consider that a massive win. And maybe Leiter can be a guy you throw out there when guys need an extra days rest.

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Massive. Those 3 will determine whether we have a long, consistent window open or if we have to hope the stars align like they did in 2023.

Mahle to the IL. Dunning might have to join him based on that earlier report

#Rangers planning to activate Jon Gray today, and it could be for Tyler Mahle. He’s dealing with some shoulder stiffness, Bruce Bochy said. Not unusual for Tommy John guys to have something flare up after returning.

— Jeff Wilson (@JeffWilsonTXR) August 20, 2024

I'm so unbelievably sick and tired of reading about a pitcher with an ailment. It's making the game 10 times worse.

South Platte said:

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Tampa has churned out Snell, Matt Garza, Big Game James, Glasnow. That's better than flipping Darren Oliver.

Miami had Beckett, Burnett, Livan Hernandez. The Jose Fernandez kid was going to be a superstar.

Draft picks . . . whatever. Everybody gets a ton of picks. Some teams develop pitching talent, others don't.

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Let's look...

Tampa's 2011 Draft:
1.24 RHP Taylor Guerrieri: 29G, 5.50 ERA
1.31 OF Mikie Mahtook: 291G, .235, 33 HRs
1.32 SS Jake Hager 3G, 7.71 ERA
1.38 SS Martin - DNP MLB
1.41 3B Tyler Goeddel: 92G, .193
1.42 RHP Jeff Ames: DNP MLB
1.52 LHP Blake Snell
1.56 OF Kes Carter: DNP MLB
1.59 LHP Grayson Garvin: DNP MLB
1.60 OF James Harris: DNP MLB
2.75 CF Granden Goetzman: DNP MLB
2.89 RHP Lenny Linsky: DNP MLB

Tampa had 12 Picks in the 1st two rounds. Snell was the only player of note. 3of5 SPs drafted in 1st two rounds never made it to MLB. Nobody gets 12 Picks. In this two rounds... they're at 20% on SPs. They drafted 28 Ps in 2011 and only 1 of any significance in MLB.

Matt Garza?

Quote:

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Drafted by the Colorado Rockies in the 40th round of the 2002 MLB June Amateur Draft from Washington Union HS (Fresno, CA) and the Minnesota Twins in the 1st round (25th) of the 2005 MLB June Amateur Draft from California State University, Fresno (Fresno, CA).

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He was a Minnesota pick.

Quote:

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June 7, 2005: Drafted by the Minnesota Twins in the 1st round (25th pick) of the 2005 amateur draft. Player signed June 13, 2005.

November 28, 2007: Traded by the Minnesota Twins with Eddie Morlan (minors) and Jason Bartlett to the Tampa Bay Devil Rays for Brendan Harris, Jason Pridie and Delmon Young.

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Glasnow:

Quote:

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June 7, 2011: Drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 5th round of the 2011 amateur draft. Player signed August 3, 2011.

July 31, 2018: Traded by the Pittsburgh Pirates with a player to be named later and Austin Meadows to the Tampa Bay Rays for Chris Archer. The Pittsburgh Pirates sent Shane Baz (August 14, 2018) to the Tampa Bay Rays to complete the trade.

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Beckett - 4.20 Career ERA
Burnett - Mets

Quote:

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June 1, 1995: Drafted by the New York Mets in the 8th round of the 1995 amateur draft. Player signed June 13, 1995.

February 6, 1998: Traded by the New York Mets with Rob Stratton (minors) and Jess Snchez to the Florida Marlins for Al Leiter and Ralph Milliard.

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Hernandez - 4.44 Career ERA

Jos Fernndez... sad ending. He was off to a great start, but that isn't what we're talking about.


Rangers 2011:

***TBR: Snell: 205GS, 3.23 ERA*** For comparison
8.264 RHP Kyle Hendricks: 263 GS, 3.66 ERA 96-69
Drafted 2011, traded in 2012 for Dumpster, began MLB Career in 2014.
18.564 RHP Nick Martinez: 232 G, 4.17 ERA
48.1464 RHP Carl Edwards Jr: 296G, 3.54 ERA
Drafted 2011, traded in 2013 for Matt Garza, began MLB Career in 2015.

In both cases, Hendricks and Edwards, they were high enough prospects that they were the centerpiece in trades. Players like them were developed enough by the Rangers that they were highly sought after and went on to do well.

If you isolated the idea that a player was drafted, developed, and spent his entire career with one org... there just aren't enough of those players to support your position.

Take the '97 Braves:
Maddux drafted by Cubs, Smoltz drafted by Detroit, Neagle by the Twins.
Glavin and Millwood were both drafted by the Braves.

Even the Dodgers with all their great pitching traded for tons of them.

Sick burn…

Shutout at home for the fifth time. Yikes!

Matsui said:

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Headed to game tomorrow. $1 hotdog day!

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They would need to pay me to watch this team.

Tampa still developed those guys from minors to majors. They saw talent, traded for it, developed it, enjoyed the benefits of that with wins. Still counts.

David Price
McClanahan looked like a stud early in his career pre injury

Matsui said:

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Headed to game tomorrow. $1 hotdog day!

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Well originally some dude named Skenes was the scheduled pitcher for the Pirates. Now my app is showing D. German for Pittsburgh.

Early game today 1:35pm, for those that can watch during the day.

sburg2007 said:

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This offense. Sucks. What a let down of a season. Bradford and gray have been solid.

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Disappointing that Bradford couldn't get healthy faster. Very encouraging that he's come back looking exactly like he did at the end of last season, if not better. 0 walks.

Getting shut down by a pitcher with his A game happens in baseball, maybe once a week. We seem to get shut down 3 games a week. Semien and Garcia 0-7 with 7 K's. My lord.

This team sucks!

South Platte said:

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Tampa still developed those guys from minors to majors. They saw talent, traded for it, developed it, enjoyed the benefits of that with wins. Still counts.

David Price
McClanahan looked like a stud early in his career pre injury

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Good lord. You complain that I am verbose in my posts, but it is because people like you just make stuff us and then change your argument.

Now, we're giving credit for players traded for?! Do we have like... a time period?! You're giving KCR credit for Ragans, I suppose?!

DallasAg 94 said:

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South Platte said:

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Tampa still developed those guys from minors to majors. They saw talent, traded for it, developed it, enjoyed the benefits of that with wins. Still counts.

David Price
McClanahan looked like a stud early in his career pre injury

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Good lord. You complain that I am verbose in my posts, but it is because people like you just make stuff us and then change your argument.

Now, we're giving credit for players traded for?! Do we have like... a time period?! You're giving KCR credit for Ragans, I suppose?!

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Sorry, I'm in a foul mood.

I've posted a few times on here that I'm not sold on Ragans and his numbers are a little hollow when you see who he's beaten. But yeah. If a team isn't able to develop a pitcher and trades him, and the next team does, that team obviously did something the other team didn't. Tampa has done that, along with drafting and developing. That's been their MO for nearly 20 years on a tiny payroll.

Edit: I don't complain about your verbosity. I think it's humorous and like to give you crap about it.

17 innings in a row without a run vs. Pittsburgh pitching.

Rangers have to do better in the minor league development, but it's not easy. I went and looked at every SP that got a Cy Young vote last year (18 guys). Only 5 of the 18 were drafted (or signed) and developed by the team were on last season. I may go look at a few more years, but I bet his % is pretty common.

Ready to move on from Taveras

Mr Gigem said:

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Ready to move on from Taveras

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How many years left on his contract? Really hoping Carter can get healthy and take over in CF next year.

He's not a UFA until 2028

Another solid Heaney outing where we can't freaking score.

Didn't we do this to him last year too?

WestTexasAg said:

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Another solid Heaney outing where we can't freaking score.

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I've got the sound down, but he had a lot of traffic on the bases today. Looked to be fortunate to escape a couple of times. But regardless, he got 5 scoreless innings today.

What a play. Now get out of this inning and score some runs

21 innings with no runs. I doubt UTA would go 21 scoreless innings vs. Pittsburgh.