Every time the Fightin' Texas Aggies have gone to Omaha the Astros have won the World Series

2017
2022
2024?

agent-maroon said:

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jkag89 said:

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Every time the Fightin' Texas Aggies have gone to Omaha the Astros have won the World Series

2017
2022
2024?

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'64, '93, '99?

Baseball didn't just start this century

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Since we joined the SEC, sorry I forgot this detail.

DallasAg 94 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Not an Astros fan, but I'll chime in. I was already drafting an analysis...

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Both teams have had injuries. It is part of baseball. I think the Rangers have weathered the injuries better, so far and are about to get guys returning.

Quote:

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The big question for Astros fans is... Are Espada and Yanier the guys that can turn the team in the right direction?! If the fans are losing confidence, you can be assured those doubts will creep into the clubhouse. Was signing Hader to $19M a red flag to guys like Pressly, Tucker, and Bregman that it is time to move on?!

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Quote:

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If this team continues to struggle, you're likely going to see the trade deadline fire-sell.

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This is where Astros fans start to exit the bandwagon... but from a sports perspective... Aggie Baseball is their only option. So, about 2 weeks and then it is Texans and Aggie Football.

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Another check-in after another 2 weeks:

The 4 main issues I see:

• Espada doesn't have the experience and wisdom to put together the team.
• Lack of depth. Limited prospects and players to draw from in their minors.
• Team talent. I was rooting on the idea of Snell to the Astros and was elated Hader signed. I had said having Hader and Pressley would be meaningless if the Astros are behind in games.
• Yanier Diaz. He has to study the hitters of the day along with the SP and 7+/- RPs and how each should approach the hitter. AND... he needs the P to have the trust in him.

I tried to dumb it down so Astros fans can follow. We confirmed on all 4 points, yet? Or must you wait for the fire sale?!

I also simplified it so that South Platte can read it without short-circuiting.

Pork... you probably still have me on ignore.

agent-maroon said:

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jkag89 said:

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Every time the Fightin' Texas Aggies have gone to Omaha the Astros have won the World Series

2017
2022
2024?

---

'64, '93, '99?

Baseball didn't just start this century

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Further proof many Astros fans joined them on the bandwagon after 2017.

DallasAg 94 said:

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The 4 main issues I see:

• Espada doesn't have the experience and wisdom to put together the team.
• Lack of depth. Limited prospects and players to draw from in their minors.
• Team talent. I was rooting on the idea of Snell to the Astros and was elated Hader signed. I had said having Hader and Pressley would be meaningless if the Astros are behind in games.
• Yanier Diaz. He has to study the hitters of the day along with the SP and 7+/- RPs and how each should approach the hitter. AND... he needs the P to have the trust in him.

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I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with Houston. They are just playing bad baseball. The players don't suck all of a sudden. Espada is fine, yes the farm system is weak but their roster is strong.

Hader has been hit and miss and way overpaid, but he's going to deliver over the course of his contract. Just one of those years.

DallasAg 94 said:

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agent-maroon said:

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jkag89 said:

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Every time the Fightin' Texas Aggies have gone to Omaha the Astros have won the World Series

2017
2022
2024?

---

'64, '93, '99?

Baseball didn't just start this century

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Further proof many Astros fans joined them on the bandwagon after 2017.

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I'm anything but a bandwagon fan of either team and you know that because we've had this discussion before.

You doth protest...

j/k...

I know... I couldn't resist, doe, dawg.

Guess I'll ask here so I won't get a full year ban.

What are the deadline plans for the Rangers? Still a month or so away, but curious what the buzz is.

texasaggie2015 said:

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Guess I'll ask here so I won't get a full year ban.

What are the deadline plans for the Rangers? Still a month or so away, but curious what the buzz is.

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Just change "We ain't found ****" to "We don't know ****". This season has been so nuts with injuries and our offense sucking and losing streaks, I don't think the front office even knows what July 31st is gonna look like.

Personally, I don't think CY brought Bochy in to have a down year. Sure, we won a WS early, but I just don't see the mentality of giving up.

tl dr... most expectations from fans are we'll add a RHB and likely a reliever at the deadline.

The FO is pretty tight lipped about things. I wouldn't say they provide misdirection or false information, but we get lots of "oh just a day off" then they land on the 60. Or, "we think he is mostly dead" and he gets activated and throws a perfect game.

Trading for Grossman a few weeks ago was recognition that we're vulnerable against LHP. He hasn't helped much. Hopefully Jung will be an answer, but I think general fan consensus is we need a RHB even with Jung. I mentioned Pete Alonso a few days ago and see that the Astros may be interested. I assume like the JV/MaxS/NYM conversations the Rangers and Astros are both interested.

I think from a fans perspective, as evidence by our thread... many are frustrated with the lack of stringing Ws together and the fact our bats seem pretty limp too often.

I'd expect the FO to be in on conversations for lineup additions. I think Carter's health is a concern and much is expected that Langford will continue to improve.

From a SP perspective, I've posted some stuff recently on our thread. I think it is just too early.

We currently have:
Eovaldi, Gray, Heaney, Dunning, and Lorenzen
Scherzer is expected to rehab 70-75 PC on Friday and then "could" be activated.
Mahle is likely a month or so away.
deGrom and Bradford who knows.
Urena has moved to the BP.

I think the FO would listen to add SP, but IMO, getting Mahle was in lieu of a mid-season acquisition. Lorenzen was a gift. I hope we'll sell some P at the deadline, but I don't think CY would ever do that.

I could see a Post-Season rotation of: Eovaldi + Gray +2 (Scherzer & deGrom/Mahle?!)

Which means we'll have a ton of SPs available for the BP or trade .

Question for you... you guys obsess over Luhnow and I don't see it.

He was very controversial and.... sure he had success, but it wasn't like he was a baseball genius. IMO, he was very much like current SDP GM AJ Preller.

Both Ivy league dewsh bags. Both had a culture of corruption and win-at-all cost mentality.

Both went into the DR and exploited the opportunity and resources and not necessarily for the better of the country. Preller helped the Rangers establish an Academy there, similar to Luhnow for the Cards and Astros. The resulting impact was a tremendous amount of MLB intervention and community destruction in the DR.

I'm not a fan of the "tanking" in order to increase draft picks. And I think both leveraged signing players so they could offer QO and get draft pick compensation if they left. More MLB intervention to level the field.

Sign-stealing was a wash... most teams did it, but not to the extent or like Houston.

Ultimately, IMO, the reason Preller is still in MLB and Luhnow isn't... is because of something I think got washed under the table. Tell me if I'm wrong or if I got facts wrong. For me, this is more about validating what I remember and exposing Luhnow's culture of corruption... than it is about the Astros.

Back when he left St. Louis for Houston, there was a scandal where Christopher Correa, the Cardinals Dir of Player Dev was found to have "hacked" the Astros scouting database. MLB gave Houston the StL #56 (Corbin Martin, A&M, used in Greinke trade) and #75 (JJ Matijevic) overall picks.

Correa charged Luhnow with taking a copy of the Cardinals' database. In order to prove it, he was able to log into the database with the credentials he used from his existing Cardinals account. That's how it went down, as I recall the logistics.

The way it went down legally was the Astros/Luhnow fought back and accused Correa of illegally gaining access to the database and thus anything he did after that was a criminal offense. Correa couldn't use the fact the login worked because he had illegally gain access to the database in order to attempt the login.

MLB couldn't do anything to Houston because legally there was no proof. As a result, the whole thing got washed away with Correa pleading guilty... MLB awarded Houston 2 picks to make it all go away. However, MLB knew that Luhnow had stolen the database and as a result, the sign-stealing suspension was held to a higher standard against Luhnow because of the database theft and MLB feeling like they could get Luhnow.

What is it outside of the corruption and another team's scouting database... that Astros fans think Luhnow brought to the table.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Question for you... you guys obsess over Luhnow and I don't see it.

He was very controversial and.... sure he had success, but it wasn't like he was a baseball genius. IMO, he was very much like current SDP GM AJ Preller.

Both Ivy league dewsh bags. Both had a culture of corruption and win-at-all cost mentality.

Both went into the DR and exploited the opportunity and resources and not necessarily for the better of the country. Preller helped the Rangers establish an Academy there, similar to Luhnow for the Cards and Astros. The resulting impact was a tremendous amount of MLB intervention and community destruction in the DR.

I'm not a fan of the "tanking" in order to increase draft picks. And I think both leveraged signing players so they could offer QO and get draft pick compensation if they left. More MLB intervention to level the field.

Sign-stealing was a wash... most teams did it, but not to the extent or like Houston.

Ultimately, IMO, the reason Preller is still in MLB and Luhnow isn't... is because of something I think got washed under the table. Tell me if I'm wrong or if I got facts wrong. For me, this is more about validating what I remember and exposing Luhnow's culture of corruption... than it is about the Astros.

Back when he left St. Louis for Houston, there was a scandal where Christopher Correa, the Cardinals Dir of Player Dev was found to have "hacked" the Astros scouting database. MLB gave Houston the StL #56 (Corbin Martin, A&M, used in Greinke trade) and #75 (JJ Matijevic) overall picks.

Correa charged Luhnow with taking a copy of the Cardinals' database. In order to prove it, he was able to log into the database with the credentials he used from his existing Cardinals account. That's how it went down, as I recall the logistics.

The way it went down legally was the Astros/Luhnow fought back and accused Correa of illegally gaining access to the database and thus anything he did after that was a criminal offense. Correa couldn't use the fact the login worked because he had illegally gain access to the database in order to attempt the login.

MLB couldn't do anything to Houston because legally there was no proof. As a result, the whole thing got washed away with Correa pleading guilty... MLB awarded Houston 2 picks to make it all go away. However, MLB knew that Luhnow had stolen the database and as a result, the sign-stealing suspension was held to a higher standard against Luhnow because of the database theft and MLB feeling like they could get Luhnow.

What is it outside of the corruption and another team's scouting database... that Astros fans think Luhnow brought to the table.

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2012
Drafted Carlos Correa
Drafted Lance McCullers

2014
Traded 3 scrubs for Jake Marisinick, Colin Moran, and Francis Martes. Jake was integral on the '17 title team, Moran was a key piece to trade for Gerrit Cole

2015
Drafted Alex Bregman
Drafted Kyle Tucker

2016
Traded Josh Fields for Yordan Alvarez

2017
Traded for Justin Verlander at the deadline

2018
Traded for Ryan Pressly
Traded for Gerritt Cole

2019
Traded for Zack Greinke

DallasAg 94 said:

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Question for you... you guys obsess over Luhnow and I don't see it.

He was very controversial and.... sure he had success, but it wasn't like he was a baseball genius. IMO, he was very much like current SDP GM AJ Preller.

Both Ivy league dewsh bags. Both had a culture of corruption and win-at-all cost mentality.

Both went into the DR and exploited the opportunity and resources and not necessarily for the better of the country. Preller helped the Rangers establish an Academy there, similar to Luhnow for the Cards and Astros. The resulting impact was a tremendous amount of MLB intervention and community destruction in the DR.

I'm not a fan of the "tanking" in order to increase draft picks. And I think both leveraged signing players so they could offer QO and get draft pick compensation if they left. More MLB intervention to level the field.

Sign-stealing was a wash... most teams did it, but not to the extent or like Houston.

Ultimately, IMO, the reason Preller is still in MLB and Luhnow isn't... is because of something I think got washed under the table. Tell me if I'm wrong or if I got facts wrong. For me, this is more about validating what I remember and exposing Luhnow's culture of corruption... than it is about the Astros.

Back when he left St. Louis for Houston, there was a scandal where Christopher Correa, the Cardinals Dir of Player Dev was found to have "hacked" the Astros scouting database. MLB gave Houston the StL #56 (Corbin Martin, A&M, used in Greinke trade) and #75 (JJ Matijevic) overall picks.

Correa charged Luhnow with taking a copy of the Cardinals' database. In order to prove it, he was able to log into the database with the credentials he used from his existing Cardinals account. That's how it went down, as I recall the logistics.

The way it went down legally was the Astros/Luhnow fought back and accused Correa of illegally gaining access to the database and thus anything he did after that was a criminal offense. Correa couldn't use the fact the login worked because he had illegally gain access to the database in order to attempt the login.

MLB couldn't do anything to Houston because legally there was no proof. As a result, the whole thing got washed away with Correa pleading guilty... MLB awarded Houston 2 picks to make it all go away. However, MLB knew that Luhnow had stolen the database and as a result, the sign-stealing suspension was held to a higher standard against Luhnow because of the database theft and MLB feeling like they could get Luhnow.

What is it outside of the corruption and another team's scouting database... that Astros fans think Luhnow brought to the table.

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Most postseason wins among the remaining teams in the last 10 years:

59 — Astros
29 — Phillies
7 — Rangers
6 — Diamondbacks pic.twitter.com/68rBXhmKTN

— StatMuse MLB (@statmusemlb) October 14, 2023

Most postseason wins since...

2010: Astros
2011: Astros
2012: Astros
2013: Astros
2014: Astros
2015: Astros
2016: Astros
2017: Astros
2018: Astros
2019: Astros
2020: Astros
2021: Astros
2022: Astros

— MLB Metrics (@MLBMetrics) January 15, 2023

The most Postseason wins in MLB since 2013:

62- Astros
53- Dodgers
29- Red Sox
25- Braves
22- Royals
21- Yankees
19- Philliespic.twitter.com/oOwHuMlGlF

— Phillies Tailgate (@PhilsTailgate) January 29, 2024

The Porkchop Express said:

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2012
Drafted Carlos Correa
Drafted Lance McCullers

2014
Traded 3 scrubs for Jake Marisinick, Colin Moran, and Francis Martes. Jake was integral on the '17 title team, Moran was a key piece to trade for Gerrit Cole

2015
Drafted Alex Bregman
Drafted Kyle Tucker

2016
Traded Josh Fields for Yordan Alvarez

2017
Traded for Justin Verlander at the deadline

2018
Traded for Ryan Pressly
Traded for Gerritt Cole

2019
Traded for Zack Greinke

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Wasn't Carlos Correa the consensus 1.1 pick. The beauty of getting Correa was less about Luhnow and more about the Tanking done in '11 that resulted in the 1.1 pick. His only season over .300 was the *2017 season. Arguably his best season. LAD drafted Corey Seager with the 17th pick that same year.

McCullers?! LOL.

I see you skipped Mark Appel 1.1 in 2013 and Brady Aiken 1.1 in 2014. Astros had 3 straight 1.1 picks under Luhnow and kinda hit with 1.

And then a bunch of trades?! Ok.

If my math is correct the Astros were 602-694 from '12-'19 under Luhnow.

I think I actually made better arguments for Luhnow - Tanking, exploited the QO Comp, and pillaged the DR.

DallasAg 94 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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2012
Drafted Carlos Correa
Drafted Lance McCullers

2014
Traded 3 scrubs for Jake Marisinick, Colin Moran, and Francis Martes. Jake was integral on the '17 title team, Moran was a key piece to trade for Gerrit Cole

2015
Drafted Alex Bregman
Drafted Kyle Tucker

2016
Traded Josh Fields for Yordan Alvarez

2017
Traded for Justin Verlander at the deadline

2018
Traded for Ryan Pressly
Traded for Gerritt Cole

2019
Traded for Zack Greinke

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Wasn't Carlos Correa the consensus 1.1 pick. The beauty of getting Correa was less about Luhnow and more about the Tanking done in '11 that resulted in the 1.1 pick. His only season over .300 was the *2017 season. Arguably his best season. LAD drafted Corey Seager with the 17th pick that same year.

McCullers?! LOL.

I see you skipped Mark Appel 1.1 in 2013 and Brady Aiken 1.1 in 2014. Astros had 3 straight 1.1 picks under Luhnow and kinda hit with 1.

And then a bunch of trades?! Ok.

If my math is correct the Astros were 602-694 from '12-'19 under Luhnow.

I think I actually made better arguments for Luhnow - Tanking, exploited the QO Comp, and pillaged the DR.

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Nope, Correa was the opposite of a consensus 1.1. Very few had him going #1. He signed for 1.2 M less than Buxton and 2.4 M under slot. By doing that we were able to offer LMJ more than slot. Very savvy move by Luhnow.

Brady Aiken was damaged goods. We found out afterward. He got us 1.2 the next year where we took Bregman. Again, Jeff comes out smelling like roses.

McCullers? Lol you say. He's better than any pitcher the Rangers have developed in the last 10? 15? 20? years.

I'm not about to get in a big debate on here because I don't want to get flagged and banned for a year. I don't really trust people not to just flag my posts like crazy for no reason like it's been done in the past.

I do think you're off base and that Luhnow was a fantastic GM. He wasn't perfect- but his blueprint worked. He had a knack for finding guys who underachieved or who were underdeveloped and his regime was able to work magic most of the time. Charlie Morton comes to mind.

Most of my connections came along after the Luhnow era so I can't speak much to who he was as a person.

I overlooked this line

Quote:

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Astros had 3 straight 1.1 picks under Luhnow and kinda hit with 1.

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Correa "kind of hit"? LOL

128 wRC+
27.4 WAR
ROY
2x AS
1x GG
Recieved MVP Votes 3x
.849 OPS in the postseason
18 HR & 59 RPI in the postseason

I get having different opinions, but you sound like a total clown who has no idea what he's talking about on this subject.

'12: 55-107
'13: 51-111
'14: 70-92
'15: 86-76 Lost ALDS (3-2)
'16: 84-78
Up to here, really nothing

'17: 101-61 <- Won WS
'18: 103-59 <- Lost ALCS
'19: 107-55 <- Won AL Pennant, lost WS

You're not really attributing the 2022 WS to Luhnow who had been 3 years removed?!

I mean tanking wasn't a new strategy. The A's, Rays, and Marlins had all used that as a way to accumulate talent and the Astros had already implemented it in '11 before he got there.

I can assure you that Rangers fans don't credit the 2024 World Series to Jon Daniels. Sure, thanks for some of the moves he made, but we'd have never gotten there with him as the GM.

You keep saying "tanking". You really do not understand what happened do you?

They literally had no ML or MiL system. Drayton sold everything and everyone that wasn't tied down and then minimally funded the MiL systems because he was pulling all his cash out before he sold it. He left a shell when he sold. Ed Wade was all but playing GM in Philly raiding the Houston franchise while he was GM in Houston.

The club didn't intentionally lose to get draft picks. It couldn't do anything but lose.

Did they manipulate service time once the MiL system was rebuilt? No doubt. But they did it to time as many ML ready players coming up all at once as they could.

Really odd to attribute Ws to a GM that had been removed 5 years prior.

A drafted player is only controlled by a team for 6 years... 3 Arbs and 3 Serfs...

How long does he get credit?

DallasAg 94 said:

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Really odd to attribute Ws to a GM that had been removed 5 years prior.

A drafted player is only controlled by a team for 6 years... 3 Arbs and 3 Serfs...

How long does he get credit?

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5 years? Try 2 years (3 seasons).

Look at the core of the team. How many were drafted, signed, or traded for by Luhnow?

DallasAg 94 said:

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'12: 55-107
'13: 51-111
'14: 70-92
'15: 86-76 Lost ALDS (3-2)
'16: 84-78
Up to here, really nothing

'17: 101-61 <- Won WS
'18: 103-59 <- Lost ALCS
'19: 107-55 <- Won AL Pennant, lost WS

You're not really attributing the 2022 WS to Luhnow who had been 3 years removed?!

I mean tanking wasn't a new strategy. The A's, Rays, and Marlins had all used that as a way to accumulate talent and the Astros had already implemented it in '11 before he got there.

I can assure you that Rangers fans don't credit the 2024 World Series to Jon Daniels. Sure, thanks for some of the moves he made, but we'd have never gotten there with him as the GM.

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Congrats on winning the 2024 World Series

Farmer1906 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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Wasn't Carlos Correa the consensus 1.1 pick. The beauty of getting Correa was less about Luhnow and more about the Tanking done in '11 that resulted in the 1.1 pick. His only season over .300 was the *2017 season. Arguably his best season. LAD drafted Corey Seager with the 17th pick that same year.

McCullers?! LOL.

I see you skipped Mark Appel 1.1 in 2013 and Brady Aiken 1.1 in 2014. Astros had 3 straight 1.1 picks under Luhnow and kinda hit with 1.

And then a bunch of trades?! Ok.

If my math is correct the Astros were 602-694 from '12-'19 under Luhnow.

I think I actually made better arguments for Luhnow - Tanking, exploited the QO Comp, and pillaged the DR.

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Nope, Correa was the opposite of a consensus 1.1. Very few had him going #1. He signed for 1.2 M less than Buxton and 2.4 M under slot. By doing that we were able to offer LMJ more than slot. Very savvy move by Luhnow.

Brady Aiken was damaged goods. We found out afterward. He got us 1.2 the next year where we took Bregman. Again, Jeff comes out smelling like roses.

McCullers? Lol you say. He's better than any pitcher the Rangers have developed in the last 10? 15? 20? years.

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By opposite... you mean 1.2?! The opposite means he was in nobodies top slot. Sure Buxton was up there... but let's not pretend Correa was a nobody. IIRC, there were 2 or 3 in the top group and yes... Houston offered less money to Correa to be the #1 pick and Houston used that money to sign LMJ.

Would you feel better if I said he was the consensus Top2... Top3? Drafting either Correa or Buxton... it was the 1.1 pick.

I was around... I watched the Aiken ordeal. Astros looked really bad in that ... until Aiken had TJ the following year. That was a risky move and paid off. I'll credit Luhnow for that.

Comparing Luhnow to Jon Daniels isn't really saying much.

Jon Daniels, another Ivy Leaguer who knew little about baseball wanted "out-of-the-box" thinking. So, he did really stupid stuff. Like deciding to draft HS Ps and not let them pitch after being drafted until they built up their core. And like, drafting broken SPs Dillon Tate with the 1.4 pick so you could get him cheap (like Correa or Aiken) so you could sign equally broken Matuella in hopes that once healthy, you could end up with two ToTR guys. Instead, he got two broken SPs.

I'm not saying Luhnow missed on everything he did... I'm just trying to see what Astros fans think he did that was so great. This isn't about trashing the Astros.

So did you just pretend that you didn't now all of Luhnow's big moves to get some of us to respond so you could have someone to talk to today?

Farmer1906 said:

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I overlooked this line

Quote:

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Astros had 3 straight 1.1 picks under Luhnow and kinda hit with 1.

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Correa "kind of hit"? LOL

128 wRC+
27.4 WAR
ROY
2x AS
1x GG
Recieved MVP Votes 3x
.849 OPS in the postseason
18 HR & 59 RPI in the postseason

I get having different opinions, but you sound like a total clown who has no idea what he's talking about on this subject.

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My "kinda hit on 1" was about the 1.1 pick... not about drafting a MLB player.

Do you think 2 AS and 1 GG and getting MVP votes 3x in 7 years is impressive for a 1.1 drafted player? FAR better than David Clyde, for sure.

We're splitting hairs. Maybe I should have said it was the greatest pick ever.

Look... I get it... as a fan of the Astros... you probably believe that.

The Rangers did the same thing. The team messaging was that spending money on players was pointless because we didn't have enough talent to compete. I get it. But, lets just be honest among fans.

Crane bought the team after the 2011 season.

'09: $102M
'10: $ 92M
'11: $ 77M
-----------------
'12: $ 60M
'13: $ 26M
'14: $ 50M

I don't know much about the Wade ordeal. I see he traded Lidge, Oswalt, and Pence to Philly, but only Pence played there in 2012 when Wade joined Philly.

You got Singleton... that's good.

The Astros made no attempt to field a competitive team. They signed guys in FA that wouldn't make the squad for another team. I don't blame them. I hated that the Rangers did it to get guys like Jack Leiter and Kumar Rocker... I don't like it when the Rays do it.

The Porkchop Express said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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I can assure you that Rangers fans don't credit the 2024 World Series to Jon Daniels. Sure, thanks for some of the moves he made, but we'd have never gotten there with him as the GM.

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Congrats on winning the 2024 World Series

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