tjack16 said:

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So the hitting coaches have little impact if we are playing poorly… but have a lot of impact if we are playing well?

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Don't you dare bring logic to this discussion!

Mathguy64 said:

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tjack16 said:

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So the hitting coaches have little impact if we are playing poorly… but have a lot of impact if we are playing well?

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Don't you dare bring logic to this discussion!

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Sir, this is TexAgs… even if you passed logic in college, you check that information back in upon getting a diploma.

Don't think anyone is saying that

Texaggie7nine said:

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Flying out to ST louis tonight for the 3 games this week. Any tips for Busch Stadium?

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Doesn't matter, just as long as you get across the river.

Ags #1 said:

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I think people like farmer etc are saying the hitting coaches don't really have a major impact on how guys are hitting. basically hitting coaches are useless. It's on the players to hit the ball. The coaches don't really have a hand in that. Which would lead to the question of what their purpose is then? And if they don't have a major impact then hopefully they don't get paid much because what is the point of them?

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I have never said that hitting coaches are useless. I saw a post a couple days ago as well saying I said this. I have no idea where that came from.

I've said they don't have nearly the impact some people think. Which is true. It's not like an OC or DC in football. They spend a lot of time working on mechanics and going over tape and scouting reports with the players. Those things are absolutely crucial to the club. But once the player steps in the box, there's not much they can do especially if that player is in a funk mentally - which is really what's been going on the last year with Houston (which honestly hasn't been nearly as bad as it seems). I don't think it has much, if anything, to do with poor scouting reports or mechanics.

But like what was said the other day, I don't know anything and anyone in baseball would laugh at that take. Which is funny.. because I'm repeating what I've learned from guys who have played and coached at the highest level

Are the Astros hitting coaches doing a good job? I have no idea honestly. Maybe they stopped doing what they were doing during those WS and deep playoff runs for whatever reason.

But from my observations and based on what I've had mentioned to me recently - these guys are in one hell of a funk and I'm confident we'll see them break out. I obviously wouldn't expect an elite offense, but certainly an above average one.

Again - just my two cents from what I've learned.

great hitters don't need much from a hitting coach

it's the average-to-below average hitters that need the help -- that's where the hitting coach makes his money (or fails to make his money)

So which Blanco will we see today?

if you're familiar with what happened with the Astros and Rudy Jaramillo back in the 1990's...

the hitting coach has some importance. Otherwise...

Hitting coaches are a notch above the batter's eye in terms of impact.

Ags #1 said:

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I think people like farmer etc are saying the hitting coaches don't really have a major impact on how guys are hitting. basically hitting coaches are useless. It's on the players to hit the ball. The coaches don't really have a hand in that. Which would lead to the question of what their purpose is then? And if they don't have a major impact then hopefully they don't get paid much because what is the point of them?

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Then why do we employ not only one, but two of 'em? Put that money on the field or, better yet, in the clearly depleted data and analytics department, instead (since, you know, we are paying hefty sums to "basically...useless" positions).

Again, I never said they're useless. I have no idea where that's coming from.

At this point in their careers hitters are who they are and a ML hitting coach while useful in tape review, mechanic tweaks, etc isn't going to change a hitter's approach (ie Dubon is a free swinger and Cintron ain't changing that) or their overall ability to hit ML pitching.

Yes they have input and impact in various aspects of hitting but not near the impact fans think.

https://t.co/9rPOzYRzKu. MLB Insider: Alcantara, Framber, Castillo, Gray and several more fine starters who could draw trade interest at the deadline

— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) April 11, 2025

Sorry, Useless may not have been the right word but how about minimal impact?

I wonder what Dana sees in this guy.

Astros vs. Angels RHP Kochanowicz:

LF Altuve, 3B Paredes, DH Alvarez, 1B Walker, SS Peña, C Diaz, CF Meyers, RF Smith, 2B Dubón. P Blanco

— Matt Kawahara (@matthewkawahara) April 11, 2025

Ags #1 said:

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I think people like farmer etc are saying the hitting coaches don't really have a major impact on how guys are hitting. basically hitting coaches are useless. It's on the players to hit the ball. The coaches don't really have a hand in that. Which would lead to the question of what their purpose is then? And if they don't have a major impact then hopefully they don't get paid much because what is the point of them?

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I would guess they scout opposing pitchers, give you insights on any obvious mechanical issues, and maybe help with the hitting strategy (i.e. how aggressive to be)

I'm sure a good hitting coach could get someone like Yordan to be Yordan again, but he won't make Dubon into Yordan.

The Astros are 28th out of 30th in OPS so you can certainly claim the current hitting coach is not producing much value. However I think Crane/Brown/Bagwell are more responsible for that.

I will be one of the first ones to admit that I am harder on our hitters than their record shows, but I also believe our hitting stats got greatly inflated in blowout games and we were not nearly as good in situational hitting where 1-2 runs were needed to make or break a game. My main beef with the hitting coaches is when guys keep making easy and stupid errors in the little parts of the game.

For instance, our pitcher will have a long inning and throw a lot of pitches. Conventional logic is to go out there and stretch out your at bats to give them to time to rest and recover. The pitch clock has changed the ability to do that to some degree, but you can also do it by watching more pitches, fouling off pitches, etc. Our guys instead of will go out and swing at the 1st or 2nd pitch for 3 quick outs and send our pitcher right back out there. I have seen it at least a dozen times in the last few seasons and it is stupid baseball. Somebody needs to talk to these guys and teach them how to do their pitcher a favor.

Same thing with guys like Pena swinging at sliders that are way outside the strike zone, where he couldn't do anything with it even if he were to make contact. Our hitting coaches need to be sitting him down with a loop of footage showing him flailing away trying to pull pitches that he couldn't hit swinging a broom and convince him to either go the other way on those pitches or just stop swinging out there. For as long as that has been the goto way to get him to swing at bad pitches, it is shameful that he and the hitting coaches haven't figured out a counter to it yet. He just keeps swinging away at pitches he will never hit and trying to pull them into the crawford boxes.

Bagwell?

texasaggie2015 said:

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txags92 said:

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Same thing with guys like Pena swinging at sliders that are way outside the strike zone, where he couldn't do anything with it even if he were to make contact. Our hitting coaches need to be sitting him down with a loop of footage showing him flailing away trying to pull pitches that he couldn't hit swinging a broom and convince him to either go the other way on those pitches or just stop swinging out there. For as long as that has been the goto way to get him to swing at bad pitches, it is shameful that he and the hitting coaches haven't figured out a counter to it yet. He just keeps swinging away at pitches he will never hit and trying to pull them into the crawford boxes.

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See.. it's not that easy. They can tell him over and over and over again but some guys just aren't as skilled at picking up spin as others.

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As many as he sees these days, he is probably safer to just assume they are all going to be sliders outside since it is so easy to get him out swinging at them.

The Altuve Dubon thing that doesn't happen much is happening again…

Regarding hitting coaches, I recall hearing (or perhaps it was reading it here) that Cintron was one of the best on the staff (along with Maldy at the time) at identifying pitchers who were tipping. That in and of itself may be why he is still on the staff. That's not to say he isn't involved in many other ways with batters, but a guy who can find those tips can be invaluable to a team.

Coaches or players MAY be catching pitchers tipping live but IMHO that's mostly done via computer video analysis looking for differences in motions. It's no different than looking for an asteroid. You compare pics over and over and look for differences. It can be automated.

Sounds like we need 2 new hitting coaches
Bagwell and Maldonado
You're welcome

Cynic said:

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Ags #1 said:

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I think people like farmer etc are saying the hitting coaches don't really have a major impact on how guys are hitting. basically hitting coaches are useless. It's on the players to hit the ball. The coaches don't really have a hand in that. Which would lead to the question of what their purpose is then? And if they don't have a major impact then hopefully they don't get paid much because what is the point of them?

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I would guess they scout opposing pitchers, give you insights on any obvious mechanical issues, and maybe help with the hitting strategy (i.e. how aggressive to be)

I'm sure a good hitting coach could get someone like Yordan to be Yordan again, but he won't make Dubon into Yordan.

The Astros are 28th out of 30th in OPS so you can certainly claim the current hitting coach is not producing much value. However I think Crane/Brown/Bagwell are more responsible for that.

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But how can you really say they aren't producing much value just because the Astros are 28th out of 30th in OPS? We've literally had the same 2 guys since 2019 and we're ONLY two weeks in to a season.

Yordan and Walker are both in slumps to start the season. Let's see if they are both in a slump at the end of next week - they both showed signs of coming out of it the last couple of games. If they go, the Astors offense WILL score about 5 runs a game.

txags92 said:

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texasaggie2015 said:

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txags92 said:

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Same thing with guys like Pena swinging at sliders that are way outside the strike zone, where he couldn't do anything with it even if he were to make contact. Our hitting coaches need to be sitting him down with a loop of footage showing him flailing away trying to pull pitches that he couldn't hit swinging a broom and convince him to either go the other way on those pitches or just stop swinging out there. For as long as that has been the goto way to get him to swing at bad pitches, it is shameful that he and the hitting coaches haven't figured out a counter to it yet. He just keeps swinging away at pitches he will never hit and trying to pull them into the crawford boxes.

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See.. it's not that easy. They can tell him over and over and over again but some guys just aren't as skilled at picking up spin as others.

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As many as he sees these days, he is probably safer to just assume they are all going to be sliders outside since it is so easy to get him out swinging at them.

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But that doesn't mean he can just sit on it. He's got to worry about 97+ in the same location or inside. If he can't pick up spin as quickly as someone else and someone throws a 100MPH fastball followed by a 88mph slider in the same spot - that's really difficult to put on the hitting coaches.

Quote:

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But how can you really say they aren't producing much value just because the Astros are 28th out of 30th in OPS? We've literally had the same 2 guys since 2019.

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If you get a good rating at your job one year, does that mean you are considered a good employee for the rest of your tenure?

Cynic said:

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Quote:

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But how can you really say they aren't producing much value just because the Astros are 28th out of 30th in OPS? We've literally had the same 2 guys since 2019.

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If you get a good rating at your job one year, does that mean you are considered a good employee for the rest of your tenure?

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If you work for the federal government, absolutely.