Funky said:

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Can you vote at Tesla shareholder meeting?

No?

You don't own Tesla

No one ever said because they own the index that they own the stock. The index funds own prospectus says shareholders of the index fund or mutual fund don't own the stock.

Do you get to participate in the price movement of Tesla. Yes.

Do you own the stock. No

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Quote:

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Plain Talk About Vanguard's Unique Corporate Structure The Vanguard Group is owned jointly by the funds it oversees and thus indirectly by the shareholders in those funds. Most other mutual funds are operated by management companies that are owned by third partieseither public or private stockholdersand not by the funds they serve.

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Quote:

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An index fund seeks to hold all, or a representative sample, of the securities that make up its target index.

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FunkyKO said:

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I do vote so yes.

Voting by proxy is a right that Actual owners of the stock have, and as a shareholder you get to choose. Ownership of shares also allow for the attendance of annual meetings. if in a fund, one gives up that right. When is the last time a fund asked its shareholders what they thought? Never

Companies phasing out what shareholders rights? Stop.

Why would one choose vfinx and when voo is cheaper?

You don't own stocks held in the fund and any professional would never say that.

Etfs don't hold the stocks by the way.

You do know vfinx is closed to new investors? They are steering folks to the etf or admiral shares.

Back to the Tesla is tanking thread.

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AggiEE said:

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FunkyKO said:

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I do vote so yes.

Voting by proxy is a right that Actual owners of the stock have, and as a shareholder you get to choose. Ownership of shares also allow for the attendance of annual meetings. if in a fund, one gives up that right. When is the last time a fund asked its shareholders what they thought? Never

Companies phasing out what shareholders rights? Stop.

Why would one choose vfinx and when voo is cheaper?

You don't own stocks held in the fund and any professional would never say that.

Etfs don't hold the stocks by the way.

You do know vfinx is closed to new investors? They are steering folks to the etf or admiral shares.

Back to the Tesla is tanking thread.

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Blah blah blah

https://amp.ft.com/content/27eddb59-1770-4ad8-a07f-6a940e20e00c

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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FunkyKO said:

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I do vote so yes.

Voting by proxy is a right that Actual owners of the stock have, and as a shareholder you get to choose. Ownership of shares also allow for the attendance of annual meetings. if in a fund, one gives up that right. When is the last time a fund asked its shareholders what they thought? Never

Companies phasing out what shareholders rights? Stop.

Why would one choose vfinx and when voo is cheaper?

You don't own stocks held in the fund and any professional would never say that.

Etfs don't hold the stocks by the way.

You do know vfinx is closed to new investors? They are steering folks to the etf or admiral shares.

Back to the Tesla is tanking thread.

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Blah blah blah

https://amp.ft.com/content/27eddb59-1770-4ad8-a07f-6a940e20e00c

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Your link isn't viewable w/o a sub...

So... blah, blah, blah elaborate

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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FunkyKO said:

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I do vote so yes.

Voting by proxy is a right that Actual owners of the stock have, and as a shareholder you get to choose. Ownership of shares also allow for the attendance of annual meetings. if in a fund, one gives up that right. When is the last time a fund asked its shareholders what they thought? Never

Companies phasing out what shareholders rights? Stop.

Why would one choose vfinx and when voo is cheaper?

You don't own stocks held in the fund and any professional would never say that.

Etfs don't hold the stocks by the way.

You do know vfinx is closed to new investors? They are steering folks to the etf or admiral shares.

Back to the Tesla is tanking thread.

---

Blah blah blah

https://amp.ft.com/content/27eddb59-1770-4ad8-a07f-6a940e20e00c

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Your link isn't viewable w/o a sub...

So... blah, blah, blah elaborate

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Blah blah blah you don't own the stocks, blah blah blah, vfinx is closed blah blah blah. ETFs don't own the shares (I don't own ETFs). Obnoxious poster

Let's argue over literally nothing

Google: share ownership structure for Facebook or palantir. How much SAY do you really have at many of these companies of which you own shares. Hint: not a lot.

You can still own shares and not really be entitled to much say in the direction of the company, and as an individual retail investor it's laughable already.

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It is pretty simple. You do not own TSLA shares. You own an index that has TSLA shares in the index. I am well aware of how non-voting shares work in the market. You said you do not own individual stocks. TSLA is an individual stock. It is that simple.

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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FunkyKO said:

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I do vote so yes.

Voting by proxy is a right that Actual owners of the stock have, and as a shareholder you get to choose. Ownership of shares also allow for the attendance of annual meetings. if in a fund, one gives up that right. When is the last time a fund asked its shareholders what they thought? Never

Companies phasing out what shareholders rights? Stop.

Why would one choose vfinx and when voo is cheaper?

You don't own stocks held in the fund and any professional would never say that.

Etfs don't hold the stocks by the way.

You do know vfinx is closed to new investors? They are steering folks to the etf or admiral shares.

Back to the Tesla is tanking thread.

---

Blah blah blah

https://amp.ft.com/content/27eddb59-1770-4ad8-a07f-6a940e20e00c

---

Your link isn't viewable w/o a sub...

So... blah, blah, blah elaborate

---

Blah blah blah you don't own the stocks, blah blah blah, vfinx is closed blah blah blah. ETFs don't own the shares (I don't own ETFs). Obnoxious poster

Let's argue over literally nothing

Google: share ownership structure for Facebook or palantir. How much SAY do you really have at many of these companies of which you own shares. Hint: not a lot.

You can still own shares and not really be entitled to much say in the direction of the company, and as an individual retail investor it's laughable already.

---

It is pretty simple. You do not own TSLA shares. You own an index that has TSLA shares in the index. I am well aware of how non-voting shares work in the market. You said you do not own individual stocks. TSLA is an individual stock. It is that simple.

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I own a basket of stocks, of which Tesla is contained in them. True, I don't own it INDIVIDUALLY. I still own it through the fund. I am exposed to its price volatility.

What are we arguing about again?

I thought it was that Tesla is going to 3x based on Cathie Wood's magic predictions of fairy dust. They are going to be larger than all the autos and oil companies combined.

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The argument is that the screamers shouting overvalued since Tesla's inception have been beat worse than a redheaded stepchild. You and many many others have been saying it for years and Tesla has made them all look like fools. Keep valuing TSLA as an auto company. That is the problem. TSLA isn't an auto company. It is a tech company that produces automotives.

That's cute how you try to take a swipe at Cathie Woods. She made everyone look like fools too.

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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FunkyKO said:

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I do vote so yes.

Voting by proxy is a right that Actual owners of the stock have, and as a shareholder you get to choose. Ownership of shares also allow for the attendance of annual meetings. if in a fund, one gives up that right. When is the last time a fund asked its shareholders what they thought? Never

Companies phasing out what shareholders rights? Stop.

Why would one choose vfinx and when voo is cheaper?

You don't own stocks held in the fund and any professional would never say that.

Etfs don't hold the stocks by the way.

You do know vfinx is closed to new investors? They are steering folks to the etf or admiral shares.

Back to the Tesla is tanking thread.

---

Blah blah blah

https://amp.ft.com/content/27eddb59-1770-4ad8-a07f-6a940e20e00c

---

Your link isn't viewable w/o a sub...

So... blah, blah, blah elaborate

---

Blah blah blah you don't own the stocks, blah blah blah, vfinx is closed blah blah blah. ETFs don't own the shares (I don't own ETFs). Obnoxious poster

Let's argue over literally nothing

Google: share ownership structure for Facebook or palantir. How much SAY do you really have at many of these companies of which you own shares. Hint: not a lot.

You can still own shares and not really be entitled to much say in the direction of the company, and as an individual retail investor it's laughable already.

---

It is pretty simple. You do not own TSLA shares. You own an index that has TSLA shares in the index. I am well aware of how non-voting shares work in the market. You said you do not own individual stocks. TSLA is an individual stock. It is that simple.

---

I own a basket of stocks, of which Tesla is contained in them. True, I don't own it INDIVIDUALLY. I still own it through the fund. I am exposed to its price volatility.

What are we arguing about again?

I thought it was that Tesla is going to 3x based on Cathie Wood's magic predictions of fairy dust. They are going to be larger than all the autos and oil companies combined.

---

The argument is that the screamers shouting overvalued since Tesla's inception have been beat worse than a redheaded stepchild. You and many many others have been saying it for years and Tesla has made them all look like fools. Keep valuing TSLA as an auto company. That is the problem. TSLA isn't an auto company. It is a tech company that produces automotives.

That's cute how you try to take a swipe at Cathie Woods. She made everyone look like fools too.

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Irish 2.0 said:

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Then short it

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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Irish 2.0 said:

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AggiEE said:

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FunkyKO said:

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I do vote so yes.

Voting by proxy is a right that Actual owners of the stock have, and as a shareholder you get to choose. Ownership of shares also allow for the attendance of annual meetings. if in a fund, one gives up that right. When is the last time a fund asked its shareholders what they thought? Never

Companies phasing out what shareholders rights? Stop.

Why would one choose vfinx and when voo is cheaper?

You don't own stocks held in the fund and any professional would never say that.

Etfs don't hold the stocks by the way.

You do know vfinx is closed to new investors? They are steering folks to the etf or admiral shares.

Back to the Tesla is tanking thread.

---

Blah blah blah

https://amp.ft.com/content/27eddb59-1770-4ad8-a07f-6a940e20e00c

---

Your link isn't viewable w/o a sub...

So... blah, blah, blah elaborate

---

Blah blah blah you don't own the stocks, blah blah blah, vfinx is closed blah blah blah. ETFs don't own the shares (I don't own ETFs). Obnoxious poster

Let's argue over literally nothing

Google: share ownership structure for Facebook or palantir. How much SAY do you really have at many of these companies of which you own shares. Hint: not a lot.

You can still own shares and not really be entitled to much say in the direction of the company, and as an individual retail investor it's laughable already.

---

It is pretty simple. You do not own TSLA shares. You own an index that has TSLA shares in the index. I am well aware of how non-voting shares work in the market. You said you do not own individual stocks. TSLA is an individual stock. It is that simple.

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Irish 2.0 said:

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Then short it

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Quote:

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Le, the founder of Sino Auto Insights, a newsletter that tracks China's electric-vehicle market, had been following the growing public dissatisfaction with the company for weeks. In an interview with TechNode earlier this month, he dismissed concerns that complaints about the company's customer service and safety bubbling up on social media would slow its sales growth. He reasoned, for all the unhappy customers there are "a ton more" who love Tesla.

But things in China can change fast especially when the central government decides it's time to shake things up. And in the past few weeks, Beijing through state-controlled media has joined the chorus of Tesla critics, and it has the most important and loudest voice of all.

"Xinhua and People's Daily have been publishing opinion pieces regularly saying that Tesla ignores the rights of consumers," Anne Stevenson-Yang, the founder of the investment firm J Capital Research in China, said in an email to Insider. The violations are said to include a right to transparent pricing and to data about accidents

"Commentators say that Tesla has abrogated its investment commitment (14 billion yuan) and its commitment to pay taxes (2.23 billion yuan annually). The company is not meeting its sales targets," Stevenson-Yang said. She added, "Several commentators have recommended kicking Tesla out, like Google. These are not just your local op-ed writers it's a campaign."

Le agreed with that assessment and said we should think of this like the Wizard of Oz. Beijing has the power to "dial things up or dial things down" when it comes to public outcry. There are real people upset at Tesla, he said. And the government is choosing to emphasize them even as Tesla sells 30,000 units in the country a month.

"Having social media blow up is one thing," Le said. "When state media gets involved is another thing. This is a clear warning to them."

Tesla needs China. On Monday, Tesla reported a Q1 earnings beat with record profits, but the stock fell down to 4% the following day. That's because those profits were made by selling Bitcoin and a record amount of energy credits to combustion-engine carmakers. As more competition comes online in the US and China in the second half of the year, the market for those credits sales may begin to dry up. Wall Street wants to know how the company will continue to make a profit after that. For the company, winning China has to be part of that equation.

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Quote:

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Right now, China's electric-vehicle market is dominated by Tesla, SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co. one of GM's local joint ventures and BYD. In March, three companies captured 55% of the market, the China Passenger Car Association said. That's only 5% of the total passenger-vehicle market, which gives you a sense of how nascent all of this is.

For now, Beijing needs Tesla to bring attention to the EV market, but Tesla needs to be careful. Le said, "If a domestic EV player steps up, then I think the calculus changes for certain parties."


Last year, Tesla led the EV market in sales. But this year it's getting beaten out for the top spot by the Hongguang Mini, which is made by the SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile joint venture and costs between $4,000 and $4,500.

That means Tesla may have to learn to be more responsive to Chinese consumers and fast. The company is known for its Silicon Valley "growth at all costs" culture. In the US, that has led to complaints of rushed sales and unresponsive service centers, and concerns that build-quality issues go unresolved. In 2020, J.D. Power found that Tesla owners have more issues with their cars than any other brand it studied. Tesla has to figure out how to fix those problems in China.

"Unfortunately," Le said, "you see some of the limitations of the tech mentality in the manufacturing space."

And if Beijing's media campaign works, those limitations could hang around Tesla's neck like an albatross, slowing it's Q2 sales growth so that domestic competitors can catch up.


Bigger than Tesla, bigger than cars


After the incident at the Shanghai Auto Show, Tesla issued an apology to Chinese consumers, but state media has not let up on its critical coverage of the company. The Global Times headline after Tesla's earnings beat was "Tesla 'brakes' in China over image crisis, despite record Q1 earnings."

And then there's this snippet from the report: "Tesla is still betting big on the Chinese market. But its sales in China are doomed to experience a sharp fall in the second quarter and its global sales could also be affected, analysts warned."

If that seems hyperaggressive, that's because it is. Hovering in the background of all of this is the relationship between the West and China, which has soured over the past few years. Recently, Beijing has learned to exercise its anger at foreign governments through their companies, especially over issues such as Xinjiang and Taiwan.

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Malachi Constant said:

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LOL hey y'all remember this thread?

TSLA pushing $900 today....

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Malachi Constant said:

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LOL hey y'all remember this thread?

TSLA pushing $900 today....

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Malachi Constant said:

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Truly amazing that Tesla has captured the market share they've got without spending a dime on any sort of advertising.

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Malachi Constant said:

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-25/hertz-said-to-order-100-000-teslas-in-car-rental-market-shake-up

Hertz Orders 100,000 Teslas in Rental-Market Shake-Up

TSLA!

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