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I have not made a focused, extended effort to understand bitcoin

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I remain ignorant on bitcoin as I have made no efforts to understanding it

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TxAG#2011 said:

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Fall? I believe it's the best performing major asset over the past two years

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Cyp0111 said:

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I'm still curious what the true value is. i know it has a relative opex to produce but outside of that. It seems like a rather speculative play which would explain all the pumpers adn excess surrounding it.

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AggieBaseball06 said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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Cyp0111 said:

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I'm still curious what the true value is. i know it has a relative opex to produce but outside of that. It seems like a rather speculative play which would explain all the pumpers adn excess surrounding it.

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Bitcoin cannot be seized by a government or regulatory entity. What is the value of that? Nothing to some and a lot to others.

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https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/04/irs-has-seized-1point2-billion-worth-of-cryptocurrency-this-year-.html

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The IRS has seized $1.2 billion worth of cryptocurrency this fiscal year here's what happens to it

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I'm admittedly a novice to all of this. Your statement and that headline seem to clash. Could you please explain what I'm missing?

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"There was a wallet with approximately 30,000 bitcoin in it, which we were able to identify and seize. At the time, it was probably the largest bitcoin seizure ever, and it sold for around $19 million," said Levin.

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During the seizure itself, multiple agents are involved to ensure proper oversight. That includes managers who establish the necessary hardware wallets to secure the seized crypto. "We maintain private keys only in headquarters so that it can't be tampered with," Koopman said.

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birdman said:

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@NFLPlayerProps said:

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Cyp0111 said:

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Has anyone had anyone explain a crypto currency to them in less than 2 sentences ?

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Can you explain how USD works in less than 2 sentences?

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It's a piece of paper that I can use to buy nearly anything I want from nearly any place in the world.

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AggiEE said:

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Crypto is highly speculative junk that's significantly fueled by stimmies and margin

Stimmies are now gone and margin is now expensive

To make matters worse, the margin calls are forcing liquidation of crypto further adding to the decline

There's only so many fools that Matt Damon can sell to before everyone rushes to get out first

As Warren Buffett eloquently put it, Crypto is rat poison and a lesson on the mass delusional greed of crowds

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TxAG#2011 said:

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It's funny watching the same people crawl out every time it crashes. And go completely silent when it inevitably heads back up

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htxag09 said:

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If the goal is to be a secure and dominant currency, wouldn't the value need to be more stable?

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htxag09 said:

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What confuses me about Bitcoin is the currency part. I see it more as an investment, yes, investments can be traded. But the volatility of it makes it pretty irrelevant to me as an actual currency. If the goal is to be a secure and dominant currency, wouldn't the value need to be more stable?

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Deluxe said:

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htxag09 said:

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What confuses me about Bitcoin is the currency part. I see it more as an investment, yes, investments can be traded. But the volatility of it makes it pretty irrelevant to me as an actual currency. If the goal is to be a secure and dominant currency, wouldn't the value need to be more stable?

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Here's one take on it by Parker Lewis:

https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoin-is-not-too-volatile/

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While central bankers all over the world point to bitcoin as a poor store of value and not functional as a currency because of volatility, they think in days, weeks, months and quarters while the rest of us plan for the long-term: years, decades and generations.

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DTP02 said:

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Can you expand on the layer 2-4 BTC applications?

Because of its size (along with other problems, but size seems to be the biggest inherent issue) which is only increasing as I understand it, each BTC is ponderously inefficient to use for the purchase of goods and services.

So I'm making an inferential leap from the mentions of layer 2-4 uses, as well as just common sense, that those layers would be the mechanisms which we need to have for a more efficient way to transfer some measure of the store of BTC's current value to purchase goods and services. But how do you transfer a satoshi or a fraction of a BTC without referencing the entirety of the BTC, which is the crux of the inefficiency?

Are we counting on computer processing outpacing the increasing BTC size, is the theoretical answer that simple?

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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DTP02 said:

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Can you expand on the layer 2-4 BTC applications?

Because of its size (along with other problems, but size seems to be the biggest inherent issue) which is only increasing as I understand it, each BTC is ponderously inefficient to use for the purchase of goods and services.

So I'm making an inferential leap from the mentions of layer 2-4 uses, as well as just common sense, that those layers would be the mechanisms which we need to have for a more efficient way to transfer some measure of the store of BTC's current value to purchase goods and services. But how do you transfer a satoshi or a fraction of a BTC without referencing the entirety of the BTC, which is the crux of the inefficiency?

Are we counting on computer processing outpacing the increasing BTC size, is the theoretical answer that simple?

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There are only so many transactions that can be reported in a certain time period with Most base layers of crypto. So one thing they do is create layers of micro transactions, and then roll them up into a larger lump sum for the base transaction. So a party sells 10 coins to 20 different people, but they only record the a single 10 coin transaction to the base layer.

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DTP02 said:

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Can you expand on the layer 2-4 BTC applications?

Because of its size (along with other problems, but size seems to be the biggest inherent issue) which is only increasing as I understand it, each BTC is ponderously inefficient to use for the purchase of goods and services.

So I'm making an inferential leap from the mentions of layer 2-4 uses, as well as just common sense, that those layers would be the mechanisms which we need to have for a more efficient way to transfer some measure of the store of BTC's current value to purchase goods and services. But how do you transfer a satoshi or a fraction of a BTC without referencing the entirety of the BTC, which is the crux of the inefficiency?

Are we counting on computer processing outpacing the increasing BTC size, is the theoretical answer that simple?

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AggieAL1 said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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DTP02 said:

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Can you expand on the layer 2-4 BTC applications?

Because of its size (along with other problems, but size seems to be the biggest inherent issue) which is only increasing as I understand it, each BTC is ponderously inefficient to use for the purchase of goods and services.

So I'm making an inferential leap from the mentions of layer 2-4 uses, as well as just common sense, that those layers would be the mechanisms which we need to have for a more efficient way to transfer some measure of the store of BTC's current value to purchase goods and services. But how do you transfer a satoshi or a fraction of a BTC without referencing the entirety of the BTC, which is the crux of the inefficiency?

Are we counting on computer processing outpacing the increasing BTC size, is the theoretical answer that simple?

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There are only so many transactions that can be reported in a certain time period with Most base layers of crypto. So one thing they do is create layers of micro transactions, and then roll them up into a larger lump sum for the base transaction. So a party sells 10 coins to 20 different people, but they only record the a single 10 coin transaction to the base layer.

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Really? Just how does that work? Say in bitcoin, where transactions must be verified and added to the blockchain to be final, what address is used to roll the coins up, and what address allows for a single blockchain entry to get those coins to 20 different people?

I fear the touted levels solutions are mere gossamer.

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Say Alice opens a channel with her favorite coffee shop and deposits $100 worth of bitcoin in it. Her transactions with the coffee shop are instant because she has a direct channel with it.

Bob, who has another channel open with the grocery store he visits most frequently, also buys coffee from Alice's shop. The connection between Alice, the coffee shop, and Bob ensures that Alice can use funds from her balance with the coffee shop to buy groceries from Bob's store. Similarly, Bob can use his grocery store balance to conduct transactions with businesses in Alice's network.

If Bob closes his channel with the grocery store (and there are no other customers in common between the coffee shop and grocery store), then Alice will have to open another channel with the grocery store to make purchases there. In this way, a web of transactions is created and routed between multiple lightning nodes in a decentralized fashion.

On a more technical level, the lightning network uses smart contracts and multi-signature scripts to implement its vision. An initial transaction, called the funding transaction, is created when one or both parties fund a channel. In a typical multi-signature environment, two master keys (one public and another private) are initially exchanged. The exchange facilitates access and spending of funds.

In the case of a lightning node, however, the signatures are not exchanged. This is done to prevent the funding transactions' spend from being recognized by the main blockchain. Instead, the two parties exchange a single key that is used to validate spending transactions (also called commitment transactions) between themselves.

The two parties can conduct endless commitment transactions between themselves and other nodes on a lightning network. They exchange their master keys only when the channel between them is closed.

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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AggieAL1 said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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DTP02 said:

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Can you expand on the layer 2-4 BTC applications?

Because of its size (along with other problems, but size seems to be the biggest inherent issue) which is only increasing as I understand it, each BTC is ponderously inefficient to use for the purchase of goods and services.

So I'm making an inferential leap from the mentions of layer 2-4 uses, as well as just common sense, that those layers would be the mechanisms which we need to have for a more efficient way to transfer some measure of the store of BTC's current value to purchase goods and services. But how do you transfer a satoshi or a fraction of a BTC without referencing the entirety of the BTC, which is the crux of the inefficiency?

Are we counting on computer processing outpacing the increasing BTC size, is the theoretical answer that simple?

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There are only so many transactions that can be reported in a certain time period with Most base layers of crypto. So one thing they do is create layers of micro transactions, and then roll them up into a larger lump sum for the base transaction. So a party sells 10 coins to 20 different people, but they only record the a single 10 coin transaction to the base layer.

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Really? Just how does that work? Say in bitcoin, where transactions must be verified and added to the blockchain to be final, what address is used to roll the coins up, and what address allows for a single blockchain entry to get those coins to 20 different people?

I fear the touted levels solutions are mere gossamer.

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https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lightning-network.asp

Here's a good basic summary.

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Say Alice opens a channel with her favorite coffee shop and deposits $100 worth of bitcoin in it. Her transactions with the coffee shop are instant because she has a direct channel with it.

Bob, who has another channel open with the grocery store he visits most frequently, also buys coffee from Alice's shop. The connection between Alice, the coffee shop, and Bob ensures that Alice can use funds from her balance with the coffee shop to buy groceries from Bob's store. Similarly, Bob can use his grocery store balance to conduct transactions with businesses in Alice's network.

If Bob closes his channel with the grocery store (and there are no other customers in common between the coffee shop and grocery store), then Alice will have to open another channel with the grocery store to make purchases there. In this way, a web of transactions is created and routed between multiple lightning nodes in a decentralized fashion.

On a more technical level, the lightning network uses smart contracts and multi-signature scripts to implement its vision. An initial transaction, called the funding transaction, is created when one or both parties fund a channel. In a typical multi-signature environment, two master keys (one public and another private) are initially exchanged. The exchange facilitates access and spending of funds.

In the case of a lightning node, however, the signatures are not exchanged. This is done to prevent the funding transactions' spend from being recognized by the main blockchain. Instead, the two parties exchange a single key that is used to validate spending transactions (also called commitment transactions) between themselves.

The two parties can conduct endless commitment transactions between themselves and other nodes on a lightning network. They exchange their master keys only when the channel between them is closed.

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Deluxe said:

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Did you actually watch it or are you just posting it here because someone on Twitter said it was a "scathing takedown"?

I just skimmed through it myself. The irony is that I agree with alot of what he's saying. I can get into some specific rebuttals of things I don't agree with/think are misleading, but I'd like for you to demonstrate that you at least watched it before engaging in a discussion. Be specific and technical.

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