Human Resources

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In reply to Petrino1 • 12:44p, 10/23/22
AG
ea1060 said:
Ahh the HR thread bump lol. The problem I see is that literally everything gets blamed on HR these days, when its typically someone else's fault.

I got fired. I blame HR

There was a massive layoff at my company. Its HR's fault.

I didn't get the job I applied for. Stupid HR for not selecting me.

My company is promoting Diversity initiatives. Damn HR and their woke agenda.

I can't fire a lazy employee (who is a black female) a week after she started. Freakin HR and their stupid policies.

I want to hire someone with 15 years experience and my budget is $40k/year. Worthless HR cant find me any good candidates.

All of the above scenarios are things I hear on a regular basis at my company, or from other people. And none of these things are the fault of HR.


Beg to differ on bold. They owned it and drove it at my company even to the chagrin of the CEO and COO who didn't agree with it. But even they weren't willing to push back because all of the Gen Y and Z employees supported it, and the social mob and left wingers would come after them if they didn't support it.

HR at my old company is the shadow executive office. Nothing happens anymore without their say so and sometimes not at all if they didn't come up with the idea.

Rest of your scenarios I would agree with.
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Petrino1
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In reply to YouBet • 12:51p, 10/23/22
YouBet said:
ea1060 said:
Ahh the HR thread bump lol. The problem I see is that literally everything gets blamed on HR these days, when its typically someone else's fault.

I got fired. I blame HR

There was a massive layoff at my company. Its HR's fault.

I didn't get the job I applied for. Stupid HR for not selecting me.

My company is promoting Diversity initiatives. Damn HR and their woke agenda.

I can't fire a lazy employee (who is a black female) a week after she started. Freakin HR and their stupid policies.

I want to hire someone with 15 years experience and my budget is $40k/year. Worthless HR cant find me any good candidates.

All of the above scenarios are things I hear on a regular basis at my company, or from other people. And none of these things are the fault of HR.


Beg to differ on bold. They owned it and drove it at my company even to the chagrin of the CEO and COO who didn't agree with it. But even they weren't willing to push back because all of the Gen Y and Z employees supported it, and the social mob and left wingers would come after them if they didn't support it.

HR at my old company is the shadow executive office. Nothing happens anymore without their say so and sometimes not at all if they didn't come up with the idea.

Rest of your scenarios I would agree with.
A lot of CEO's and senior leaders want to promote diversity initiatives because it will make their company look better publicly, and then they rely on HR to implement these initiatives. Also, a lot of companies are considered a government contractor which requires them to meet certain diversity quotas.
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In reply to Petrino1 • 12:56p, 10/23/22
AG
ea1060 said:
YouBet said:
ea1060 said:
Ahh the HR thread bump lol. The problem I see is that literally everything gets blamed on HR these days, when its typically someone else's fault.

I got fired. I blame HR

There was a massive layoff at my company. Its HR's fault.

I didn't get the job I applied for. Stupid HR for not selecting me.

My company is promoting Diversity initiatives. Damn HR and their woke agenda.

I can't fire a lazy employee (who is a black female) a week after she started. Freakin HR and their stupid policies.

I want to hire someone with 15 years experience and my budget is $40k/year. Worthless HR cant find me any good candidates.

All of the above scenarios are things I hear on a regular basis at my company, or from other people. And none of these things are the fault of HR.


Beg to differ on bold. They owned it and drove it at my company even to the chagrin of the CEO and COO who didn't agree with it. But even they weren't willing to push back because all of the Gen Y and Z employees supported it, and the social mob and left wingers would come after them if they didn't support it.

HR at my old company is the shadow executive office. Nothing happens anymore without their say so and sometimes not at all if they didn't come up with the idea.

Rest of your scenarios I would agree with.
A lot of CEO's and senior leaders want to promote diversity initiatives because it will make their company look better publicly, and then they rely on HR to implement these initiatives. Also, a lot of companies are considered a government contractor which requires them to meet certain diversity quotas.


True which sucks because it adds no real value and is inherently racist.
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PDEMDHC
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In reply to Humorous Username • 12:35p, 10/24/22
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Humorous Username said:
Oh, man.

My son is on the spectrum, so now I just feel terrible.
No need to feel terrible. Tip of the cap to you and your family.
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KT_Ag08
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1:10a, 10/25/22
AG
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.
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cjo03
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2:26a, 10/25/22
AG
Life is easier when you acknowledge it is always HR's fault.

Over the past ~20 years I've participated in the inner workings of Fortune HR teams… and smaller company HR teams. 7 years as an senior HR leader at a little shoe company in Oregon and similar tenure at smaller more conservative companies in other states (TX, UT, GA)

The most consistent thing across all companies/states is "it is HR's fault".

People are complicated. People are always "right", even when they are wrong. Pride is rather powerful.
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Madagascar
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In reply to KT_Ag08 • 6:25a, 10/25/22
AG
KT_Ag08 said:
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.


This is where an HR team that is actually doing their job would inform the c-suite that DEI is actually terrible for personnel management and will only make things worse but they don't because they are basically just sucks ups to the big boss and don't care about employees.
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ATM9000
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In reply to KT_Ag08 • 6:43a, 10/25/22
AG
KT_Ag08 said:
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.


Tagging a Boogeyman is much easier to do than critically thinking through policies and problem statements you don't like.

This thread presumably of nobody who works at the same place blankety blaming 'HR' is the textbook proof of this.

HR is an extremely easy workplace boogeyman.
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In reply to ATM9000 • 7:06a, 10/25/22
AG
ATM9000 said:
KT_Ag08 said:
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.


Tagging a Boogeyman is much easier to do than critically thinking through policies and problem statements you don't like.

This thread presumably of nobody who works at the same place blankety blaming 'HR' is the textbook proof of this.

HR is an extremely easy workplace boogeyman.
It can be both shareholders and the market reacting to that AND HR making dumb calls and pushing a toxic agenda. This isn't a zero sum game.

I've dealt directly with HR for years at a very large corporate brand name as has my wife. They are every bit the incompetent boobs people make them out to be. On average, the least talented people we've both worked with in our careers work in HR.

And to think there aren't HR organizations out there that aren't using DEI and all of the other ridiculous leftist agenda to grab the reins is beyond naive. Wife and I both lived it; she's living it right now. We had/have first row seats to it.
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KT_Ag08
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8:17a, 10/25/22
AG
Good bit of ignorance on the power HR wields as it relates to Board initiatives.

ESG isn't something your HR team can push back on. Typically you have at most 2 people that meet with your Board from an HR team and the Head of HR isn't there to negotiate with the policies the Board feels necessary to maintain good corporate citizenry status . DEI initiatives are something ALL boards are pushing and it's up to your HR team to execute on those initiatives.

Typically, the only other person from HR who might be making a "recommendation" to the Board is your head of Exec Comp whose primary responsibility is to design compensation that aligns Exec pay with the interest of shareholders. This means adding DEI and other similar metrics into executive compensation plans to ensure that your C suite is incentivized to work towards targets pushed by the Board who represent shareholders.
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ATM9000
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In reply to KT_Ag08 • 8:26a, 10/25/22
AG
KT_Ag08 said:
Good bit of ignorance on the power HR wields as it relates to Board initiatives.

ESG isn't something your HR team can push back on. Typically you have at most 2 people that meet with your Board from an HR team and the Head of HR isn't there to negotiate with the policies the Board feels necessary to maintain good corporate citizenry status . DEI initiatives are something ALL boards are pushing and it's up to your HR team to execute on those initiatives.

Typically, the only other person from HR who might be making a "recommendation" to the Board is your head of Exec Comp whose primary responsibility is to design compensation that aligns Exec pay with the interest of shareholders. This means adding DEI and other similar metrics into executive compensation plans to ensure that your C suite is incentivized to work towards targets pushed by the Board who represent shareholders.


100% this which is my point on the HR boogeyman.

Big investors are the ones who drive most of these agendas through their governance requirements for capital. Put it another way: blaming all of this on the New World Order or George Soros or whoever is the boogeyman du jour of liberalism is far more reasonable than casting aspersions on HR over it all.

I say that though from a place of if you are casting aspersions on any one boogeyman ever, you are probably losing at life.
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KT_Ag08
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In reply to ATM9000 • 10:23a, 10/25/22
AG
Right. We are aligned on this. It's the equivalent of blaming SOC 1 and SOC 2 annual reviews on the Audit team.
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Petrino1
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In reply to KT_Ag08 • 11:11a, 10/25/22
KT_Ag08 said:
Good bit of ignorance on the power HR wields as it relates to Board initiatives.

ESG isn't something your HR team can push back on. Typically you have at most 2 people that meet with your Board from an HR team and the Head of HR isn't there to negotiate with the policies the Board feels necessary to maintain good corporate citizenry status . DEI initiatives are something ALL boards are pushing and it's up to your HR team to execute on those initiatives.

Typically, the only other person from HR who might be making a "recommendation" to the Board is your head of Exec Comp whose primary responsibility is to design compensation that aligns Exec pay with the interest of shareholders. This means adding DEI and other similar metrics into executive compensation plans to ensure that your C suite is incentivized to work towards targets pushed by the Board who represent shareholders.
This! What is HR supposed to do, tell the board sorry but we refuse to implement your initiatives. Lets see how long that HR person lasts after saying that lol.

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Petrino1
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In reply to Madagascar • 11:15a, 10/25/22
Madagascar said:
KT_Ag08 said:
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.


This is where an HR team that is actually doing their job would inform the c-suite that DEI is actually terrible for personnel management and will only make things worse but they don't because they are basically just sucks ups to the big boss and don't care about employees.
You do realize what a bad idea it would be for an HR person to tell the c-suite that? Would you tell the CEO that you refuse to implement an initiative they feel strongly about?

There's certain things HR can push back on and other things they can't, just like any other corporate employee.
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In reply to Petrino1 • 11:49a, 10/26/22
AG
ea1060 said:
Madagascar said:
KT_Ag08 said:
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.


This is where an HR team that is actually doing their job would inform the c-suite that DEI is actually terrible for personnel management and will only make things worse but they don't because they are basically just sucks ups to the big boss and don't care about employees.
You do realize what a bad idea it would be for an HR person to tell the c-suite that? Would you tell the CEO that you refuse to implement an initiative they feel strongly about?

There's certain things HR can push back on and other things they can't, just like any other corporate employee.


Again, both things can be true. Yes, the board dictates strategic direction and priorities but yall are acting like HR is this 100% benevolent entity that merely reacts to the BoD and is a pass through organization with no power. That is simply false and not reality in many companies in 2022.

HR is now the C Suite or in it at many companies. They are dictating policy and decisions because they now have more power afforded to them than they've ever had because of recent social and political movements that have swept through corporate America. They are no longer just a support arm.

As a result, the power dynamic is getting out of whack and HRs influence on corporate strategy is becoming highly imbalanced in favor of and in bias for leftist ideology at the expense of sound business practice.
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Petrino1
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In reply to YouBet • 3:18p, 10/26/22
YouBet said:
ea1060 said:
Madagascar said:
KT_Ag08 said:
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.


This is where an HR team that is actually doing their job would inform the c-suite that DEI is actually terrible for personnel management and will only make things worse but they don't because they are basically just sucks ups to the big boss and don't care about employees.
You do realize what a bad idea it would be for an HR person to tell the c-suite that? Would you tell the CEO that you refuse to implement an initiative they feel strongly about?

There's certain things HR can push back on and other things they can't, just like any other corporate employee.


Again, both things can be true. Yes, the board dictates strategic direction and priorities but yall are acting like HR is this 100% benevolent entity that merely reacts to the BoD and is a pass through organization with no power. That is simply false and not reality in many companies in 2022.

HR is now the C Suite or in it at many companies. They are dictating policy and decisions because they now have more power afforded to them than they've ever had because of recent social and political movements that have swept through corporate America. They are no longer just a support arm.

As a result, the power dynamic is getting out of whack and HRs influence on corporate strategy is becoming highly imbalanced in favor of and in bias for leftist ideology at the expense of sound business practice.
I think you overestimate the power HR has lol. I've worked in HR for large fortune100's, small startups, and everything in between. I've never seen HR have the kind of power you are talking about. Sure we can push back here and there, but we basically take orders from the business.
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Ezra Brooks
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4:06p, 10/26/22
AG
I'd also add that in a lot of the F500 companies - HR has always been pushing a lot of these initiatives, it's just was never given the weight that ESG has suddenly done.

D&I, Affirmative Action Reporting, etc. was always there - but they went from a report that was made to executives and some feel good initiatives around affinity groups, etc. suddenly became a "strategic advantage" and now the folks that have always been in charge of those programs have risen in stature as they get to push more from visible position than ever before.
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The Kraken
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6:11p, 10/26/22
AG
Man, glad my company doesn't have an overreaching HR. Just one person in our Houston division, Corporate HQ has maybe 4 or 5.
plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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In reply to Petrino1 • 9:43p, 10/26/22
AG
ea1060 said:
YouBet said:
ea1060 said:
Madagascar said:
KT_Ag08 said:
Kinda funny to see people complain about HR knowing nothing about the business and then ringing the "they took this woke diversity stuff too far" bell as if HR made this call.

Shareholders are the ones who ultimately decide how the company is run. Shareholders are also the ones demanding the diversity initiatives for the sake of ESG. This isn't HR making **** up to grab power. It's your Board and Executive team reacting to what the market is demanding and placing the task of ensuring people diversity with the… People/HR team.


This is where an HR team that is actually doing their job would inform the c-suite that DEI is actually terrible for personnel management and will only make things worse but they don't because they are basically just sucks ups to the big boss and don't care about employees.
You do realize what a bad idea it would be for an HR person to tell the c-suite that? Would you tell the CEO that you refuse to implement an initiative they feel strongly about?

There's certain things HR can push back on and other things they can't, just like any other corporate employee.


Again, both things can be true. Yes, the board dictates strategic direction and priorities but yall are acting like HR is this 100% benevolent entity that merely reacts to the BoD and is a pass through organization with no power. That is simply false and not reality in many companies in 2022.

HR is now the C Suite or in it at many companies. They are dictating policy and decisions because they now have more power afforded to them than they've ever had because of recent social and political movements that have swept through corporate America. They are no longer just a support arm.

As a result, the power dynamic is getting out of whack and HRs influence on corporate strategy is becoming highly imbalanced in favor of and in bias for leftist ideology at the expense of sound business practice.
I think you overestimate the power HR has lol. I've worked in HR for large fortune100's, small startups, and everything in between. I've never seen HR have the kind of power you are talking about. Sure we can push back here and there, but we basically take orders from the business.
I'm sure I am for some organizations, but I'm not for my former company and my wife's company. HR has that kind of power there. They very well could be an outlier (and I hope they are) but that's been our personal experience in F500.

Thankfully, in my current company....we have no HR. It's glorious!
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TheMasterplan
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4:06a, 10/27/22
My HR coordinator has been pretty good - we outsource most of our HR **** since we are a small company and they've been helpful. I live in a country with stricter regulations around labour and as a manager I take that **** serious so take most recommendations from HR serious.

HR is absolutely only there to protect the business. They aren't there to be a counselor. If you need a counselor, use friends and family and mentors outside the business.

We had a management cancelled but our HR coordinator made a big "women in industry" slide that made no sense. Women don't want to work in the field in oil and gas. Just facts. In a super tight labor market, we have no room to be picky.
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Skillet Shot
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4:09a, 10/27/22
The most competent HR managers I've dealt with have been men. Competency in terms of knowing the business, understanding employee needs and not being overly power hungry.

95% of HR is women. Not saying women can't be good HR managers, but in my experience, they tend to be more cutthroat and less knowledgeable about the business. The diversity and covid angle has made them even more openly hostile and authoritarian.

How many of y'all have ERG's - employee resource groups? Basically little racial clubs that meet up and talk about their skin color.
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Petrino1
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In reply to Skillet Shot • 5:19a, 10/27/22
Skillet Shot said:
The most competent HR managers I've dealt with have been men. Competency in terms of knowing the business, understanding employee needs and not being overly power hungry.
.


As a man in HR, I 100% agree with this. All of the best HR folks I've worked with have been men. The majority of HR women want to sit around, gossip, and typically have no idea what the business does. Also, they tend to play favorites with employees.
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YouBet
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In reply to Skillet Shot • 11:13a, 10/27/22
AG
Skillet Shot said:
The most competent HR managers I've dealt with have been men. Competency in terms of knowing the business, understanding employee needs and not being overly power hungry.

95% of HR is women. Not saying women can't be good HR managers, but in my experience, they tend to be more cutthroat and less knowledgeable about the business. The diversity and covid angle has made them even more openly hostile and authoritarian.

How many of y'all have ERG's - employee resource groups? Basically little racial clubs that meet up and talk about their skin color.
My brother's company does. And what's funny about this is that he is a conservative white male and is slowly infiltrating each ERG and percolating conservative thought.

He's currently in the ERG for women and is being recruited to be in the ERG for blacks. They see him as their token white male that they can use to legitimize their ERG because they have straight, while male buy-in by having him in it.

But he's only there to keep tabs on what they are planning and to try and sway their thinking however little he can. He has some funny stories about the ERG Women. They basically sit around and cry about emotional crap.
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