I have two offers, what would you do?

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EclipseAg
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12:27p, 8/1/22
AG
Years ago, I turned down a much higher paying job that was five hours away from family. I knew the hiring manager very well and I knew it would be a high-stress, long-hours kind of job. You don't get a big paycheck without some trade-off.

After I turned it down, I recommended a very qualified coworker who got the job. He was single and eager to make more money. He lasted about six months before quitting, saying he couldn't take the stress anymore.

My point is ... trust your gut. I never regretted not taking that job and other opportunities followed soon after. Never looked back (except to tell the story). LOL
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tlh3842
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12:39p, 8/1/22
AG
Based on your wife making good money and not being willing to move, go option A. There could always be another option comes up down the road that's more pay in the same location. Once you're making that money (option A) and your wife is making good money, that 100% salary increase doesn't have the same return since you'd have either a long daily commute or be gone all week long.

To each their own, but the way you setup the two scenarios mean you agree and would prefer A but money is the only reason you're considering B.
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Petrino1
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In reply to tlh3842 • 1:27p, 8/1/22
tlh3842 said:
To each their own, but the way you setup the two scenarios mean you agree and would prefer A but money is the only reason you're considering B.
I dont think the money is the only good thing about option B, the VP title is another significant factor here. I assume the OP is currently around a manager or Senior IC level based on his age and original post. He will essentially skip 2-3 levels with this move to a VP title, which will open up even more opportunities and $$$ in the future even if this role doesnt work out.

I had a buddy who went through something similar. He was a Senior IC level and somehow got hired as a VP of a smaller company. He didnt get a huge pay raise on his base salary, but received significant company stock. The move worked out great for him and he now gets contacted regularly for other VP level jobs paying a lot more.
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Denver_Ag
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1:50p, 8/1/22
Not all VP levels are the same. My engineering company treats the VP level similar to a senior-level project manager. I think in banking VPs are basically project managers.
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Petrino1
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In reply to Denver_Ag • 1:53p, 8/1/22
Denver_Ag said:
Not all VP levels are the same. My engineering company treats the VP level similar to a senior-level project manager. I think in banking VPs are basically project managers.
Per the OP, its a VP of Manufacturing position paying $225k-250k+. It sounds like a normal VP level role to me. I dont think Project Managers in manufacturing get paid $250k+ lol.
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YouBet
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In reply to aggiepaintrain • 1:56p, 8/1/22
AG
aggiepaintrain said:
Never hired or fired anyone? And they want to make you a VP in charge of all that as well as a lot more ? I question this a lot.

Either move the family and take option 2 or take option 1, being a long distance dad would not be worth it
I was going to post this. That is bizarre to make VP with never having been in leadership.

Not questioning the OP's skills or aptitude but that is a recipe for failure on the leadership front. If you've never cut your teeth as a Supervisor or Manager and then your first leadership experience is as a VP?? Damn, that is a ballsy move by the company and OP.

That's the only thing that gives me pause.
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Big Baccala
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2:01p, 8/1/22
AG
Too many unknowns for me to give any advice. I would want to know a lot more about the manufacturing role.
- What do they manufacture?
-How many people in the manufacturing organization?
-How many direct reports would you have?
-Is it a 24/7 operation or 8/5 operation? Big difference in what is expected.
-What is the estimated COGs? $1million......$100 million.....?
-Why do they want someone with lean/6sigma background? Are they having cost/quality/productivity problems?

I recently retired after 42 years working in manufacturing, the last 20 at a VP and SVP levels. I've seen a lot of people take roles and find out quickly that it's not a fit for them and I've seen people step in to manufacturing leadership roles and do exceptionally well. So many variables with respect to ones technical, managerial, leadership abilities and behavior to forecast success or failure.
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AgShaun00
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3:19p, 8/1/22
AG
Don't be scared of failure and don't be scared to take risk. Make it a family decision. Money isn't everything, but the opportunity to be in control and put your signature could be exciting. If you fail, you will be even better in your other role as you know why you failed.
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Bob Kelso • 3:31p, 8/1/22
Congratulations!!!

Quote:
Company A) - Back to a normal corporate lean/six sigma role with stability - around $130K. Potential to get to 150K+ in 12 months after completing Lean/Six Sigma cert and added to the annual bonus pool. No big target on my back. Don't need to move my family and its openly hybrid.
In your shoes I choose this one.
You outlined too many familial negatives in the other offer.

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MemphisAg1
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5:01p, 8/1/22
AG
Put your personal priorities ahead of pure money and title. Also think about these things:
  • location of work
  • nature of work
  • culture of company

Trust your instinct. Don't be afraid to swing for the fence if that's where you're leaning, or embrace the "safer" job if it aligns better with your priorities.

You can't go wrong... unless you ignore your priorities.
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12thAngryMan
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10:49p, 8/1/22
AG
To me, question #1 is whether the wife/family are on fully on board with the time commitment being a VP would require. After that, question #2 is what your career or financial goals are. Sure it's 100% extra pay, but if you're the kind of person who is absolutely content with an upper middle class lifestyle (which you already have btw) and don't need to be in the top 1% to feel satisfied, then screw the money.

IMO, you need to keep some perspective here -- if you're making $150k at option A, and your wife is a pharmacist that presumably makes at least low six figures, that easily puts you in the top 10% of household income nationally. Another thought is whether your wife would feel pressured to quit her job to tend to family duties if yours becomes a huge time sink? In that scenario, you could end up with less total income plus your life is now dominated by work rather than sharing the load.

There's no wrong answer as long as you've carefully considered your long-term goals. Good luck!
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Done7
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3:05a, 8/2/22
Option B. Option A will always be available. Take a risk, move the family. Good luck!
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CaptnCarl
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7:07a, 8/2/22
AG
Priority 1: Your marriage
Priority 2: Everything else

If the wife would move, it's a no brainer to take Option 2.

I'd have a conversation with your wife about long term goals and how an extra $100k/year would fit in. Option A may best fit your goals, which is most important.
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12thMan9
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9:41a, 8/2/22
AG
The title of VP today is equal to the title of XYZ Dept director from years past. It is not the same as it used to be.

I'd ask option B for a 2 yr guarantee, maybe see if they would help w/housing for you.
Ronnie '88
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aggie_wes
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In reply to 12thMan9 • 9:42a, 8/2/22
AG
12thMan9 said:
The title of VP today is equal to the title of XYZ Dept director from years past. It is not the same as it used to be.

I'd ask option B for a 2 yr guarantee, maybe see if they would help w/housing for you.


I don't think this blanket statement is accurate. It is very much company and industry specific.
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FarmerJohn
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10:00a, 8/2/22
AG
Quote:
Never had to fire or hire anyone
If you go with Option A, I would want some final decision authority on my personnel. Finding the right people and developing them is really a difficult thing and I really don't know of anyway of getting better except through experience. At about your age I didn't have any experience and was just moving into the role. 10 years later and I'm still learning. At one point I could make up for a bad team by just working harder, but that isn't possible anymore. In a VP role, your team will determine your success or failure, you can't do it all yourself.
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Deputy Travis Junior
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10:16a, 8/2/22
If your wife refuses to move, you should choose option A (and probably find a marriage counselor since she's fine with you quasi-moving without her).
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Petrino1
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In reply to aggie_wes • 11:07a, 8/2/22
aggie_wes said:
12thMan9 said:
The title of VP today is equal to the title of XYZ Dept director from years past. It is not the same as it used to be.

I'd ask option B for a 2 yr guarantee, maybe see if they would help w/housing for you.


I don't think this blanket statement is accurate. It is very much company and industry specific.
Agreed, its a bs statement.
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GenericAggie
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In reply to Bob Kelso • 1:56p, 8/2/22
AG
Bob Kelso said:
Wanted to get your opinions as I am going to need to choose fairly soon.


Company A) - Back to a normal corporate lean/six sigma role with stability - around $130K. Potential to get to 150K+ in 12 months after completing Lean/Six Sigma cert and added to the annual bonus pool. No big target on my back. Don't need to move my family and its openly hybrid.

Company B) - Never done before VP of Manufacturing role, $225-250K + bunch of other goodies. Except, move an hour and a half away from family and have a significant higher chance of failure. Might time phase this to mitigate risk or buy a condo (possible option). Might eventually need to move the kid, move the wife, and have them endure this risky journey with me. All new daycare, school district, relearn the area. Lot of hassle depression fuel.

Other details, I'm 34 years old - managed small projects over my time in the work force. Never had to fire or hire anyone, but happy to train and mentor the next gen.


1. Which company is more innovative?
2. Which company has the culture that fits your personality and style?
3. Which leadership team did you meet and felt like you meshed with better? Who you work around and for matters maybe more than ANYTHING.
4. which leadership team were you more impressed with in terms of their strategic approach?
5. Which leader did you meet with described the longer term opportunity at their company vs. the job at hand? Which leader described those things in terms that excited you about the long term?
6. You wife and family will be resilient and will adjust as you progress through your career. Kids go with the flow. Young kids in daycare don't care. What are you REALLY worried about?
7. Do you want a hard job, one that you know little about but would stretch you, create stress, but ultimately build unique, different skill sets, and long term value, or do you want a job that you can coast in? Honest question - not meant to sound passive aggressive.

Leadership isn't only about mentoring in regards to company B. It's about setting the strategic vision, getting others to rally to the vision through buy-in. Hiring capable people who want to learn and be developed (I could go on an on).

You will want to ensure that you have the right support system around you (roles that do work to scale your role) - like an ops person, an EA, several others... Does company B support that you will need a team around you and are willing to hire the right roles if not there today?

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YouBet
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In reply to FarmerJohn • 4:26p, 8/2/22
AG
FarmerJohn said:
Quote:
Never had to fire or hire anyone
If you go with Option A, I would want some final decision authority on my personnel. Finding the right people and developing them is really a difficult thing and I really don't know of anyway of getting better except through experience. At about your age I didn't have any experience and was just moving into the role. 10 years later and I'm still learning. At one point I could make up for a bad team by just working harder, but that isn't possible anymore. In a VP role, your team will determine your success or failure, you can't do it all yourself.
For clarify, you moved into a VP role without any leadership experience? The challenge here is you didn't get to cut your teeth at lower levels in identifying, hiring, and cultivating talent. Doing that for the first time as a VP knowing your last sentence is absolutely the truth is a challenge to say the least. Most VP's don't have time for the level of talent stewardship this will require as a first time leader.
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Ghost of Bisbee
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5:19p, 8/2/22
AG
I'd take the VP job. Without knowing much detail, it doesn't seem as risky to me as you're thinking it is.
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EliteZags
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In reply to Ghost of Bisbee • 8:04p, 8/2/22
AG
I would as well, my wife's boyfriend is a VP.. of Sigma Chi at SDSU, and he still has plenty of time for her
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BenTheGoodAg
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In reply to EliteZags • 8:11p, 8/2/22
AG
EliteZags said:
I would as well, my wife's boyfriend is a VP.. of Sigma Chi at SDSU, and he still has plenty of time for her


So much here to unpack
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BenTheGoodAg
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8:38p, 8/2/22
AG
I think several points good probably made, but to add:

VP can mean a lot of different things. My current VP has over 1500 engineering reports (and manufacturing has 3,000). In my old companies, there were VPs with few reports and more 'programmatic' scope. I think it really depends on what you're doing/making/workforce size is to understand if the salary is really worth it.

And VP of manufacturing is typically an 'always on' job. Downtime is lost money - It is your job to get widgets out the door. Manufacturing cultures are often very reactive and fighting fires at all hours. I'd want to know what I was stepping into from that standpoint. However, some people thrive in that environment, and it could be an epic opportunity.

Not to dog on Lean Six Sigma, but in my experience, there's a ceiling for these professionals if they don't go do something else. Whether perceived or real, in our company they are earmarked as those who couldn't cut it in the "real" areas of the company, eg manufacturing, engineering, etc. If they really want to move up, typically, they've got to prove themselves elsewhere. At a minimum, I only offer this so you'll evaluate what the culture is like in relation to LSS, and what your longer term goals are.

Personally, I wouldn't give up the family life for the extra income. And pound for pound, you're spending more in time and expenses to take option B. It's not $130k vs $225k. It's $130k vs $225k + travel time + gas and vehicle costs + extra living expenses + extra work hours + higher taxes. That equation will still heavily favor option B monetarily, but it won't be double, and it would be good to really evaluate the costs to do a better comparison.
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evan_aggie
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In reply to Denver_Ag • 10:09p, 8/2/22
AG
Denver_Ag said:
Not all VP levels are the same. My engineering company treats the VP level similar to a senior-level project manager. I think in banking VPs are basically project managers.


This is a game companies play to target the side of people that like the title.

At Qualcomm they make the title public and you'll see way more "Directors", Principle, Sr Staff, Staff.

At Intel you are "Principle Engineer"

At my current company they don't give a **** about that. It's all super flat and you have very few VPs.

It's amazing what some people will do for the title. At least in OPs case the pay was higher.
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BudFox7
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8:55a, 8/3/22
If there is hesitation between those two options, you prob aren't ready for B
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theeyetest
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11:17p, 8/3/22
If you have to ask, you're not ready for the move. I just turned 34 today and went through something similar about 4 years ago. I made the jump without hesitation and moved to Houston from Dallas by myself while the wife stayed home with the kid (and another on the way). I worked mon-fri and stayed with a coworker and drove home Friday-Sunday for about a year.

It sucked something awful, I missed my kid way too much, and I was ****ing miserable. Stick with option A unless your wife will move with you 100%. If she won't budge, you really have no choice.

Having said all that, that short year really added so much value other than just a paycheck. I learned so much about the business I was in and it looked really good on my resume. I got a matching offer with my old job back home and quit that same day. But I wouldn't have ever moved if I knew how much I was going to miss my family and how much strain was put on my marriage.
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AgsMyDude
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In reply to BudFox7 • 7:57a, 8/4/22
AG
BudFox7 said:
If there is hesitation between those two options, you prob aren't ready for B

The hesitation seems more about his family than the job itself.
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OasisMan
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9:00a, 8/4/22
AG
Out of those 2, I would pick B without hesitation

But with the wifey wearing the pants and refusing to move, I would have to roll with A
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Fightin_Aggie
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1:19p, 8/4/22
AG
Have you talked to your wife and kids about it?

They will be more impacted by the change than any of us.
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Ogre09
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1:42p, 8/4/22
AG
Choose 1 if you want to stay married.

Choose 2 if you care more about money than your family.
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Cyp0111
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3:26p, 8/4/22
Since your wife is likely making decent money I would probably say take the 1st job. The second job is likely going to stress and push you which will show up in ways at home which considering what I read as her apprehension is difficult.

I have the big job that makes great money, everyone at home and around sacrifices for the cash. I hope to pivot in 2-3 years but given the money is a lot better but not life changing given your wife is bringing in a decent number.
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htxag09
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4:20p, 8/4/22
AG
Not sure how to word this, but the acceptance of the wife's position to not want to move are interesting to me. Relationships involve some give and take and, sure, there could be legit reasons why she doesn't want to move. Could also just be that she's comfortable and doesn't want anything to change.

In one of my classes at A&M our professor was telling us about some industry panels and the biggest knock against A&M grads (and Texans in general) is the unwillingness to move.

This isn't anything against the OP or his wife, specifically. I don't know their situation and, as I said above, there may be legit reasons. But, in most cases, moving shouldn't be as non negotiable as a lot of people make it....
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Ornithopter
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In reply to YouBet • 7:42p, 8/4/22
AG
YouBet said:
aggiepaintrain said:
Never hired or fired anyone? And they want to make you a VP in charge of all that as well as a lot more ? I question this a lot.

Either move the family and take option 2 or take option 1, being a long distance dad would not be worth it
I was going to post this. That is bizarre to make VP with never having been in leadership.

Not questioning the OP's skills or aptitude but that is a recipe for failure on the leadership front. If you've never cut your teeth as a Supervisor or Manager and then your first leadership experience is as a VP?? Damn, that is a ballsy move by the company and OP.

That's the only thing that gives me pause.


Yeah, you might wonder if they are going after you because that's all they can get.

In my experience, going to places where people are willing to take chance on you can be pretty risky - it might mean it's a toxic workplace and a terrible location to be that forces them to bypass normal career progression.
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Viper16
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In reply to Bob Kelso • 8:50p, 8/4/22
AG
Bob Kelso said:
Wanted to get your opinions as I am going to need to choose fairly soon.


Company A) - Back to a normal corporate lean/six sigma role with stability - around $130K. Potential to get to 150K+ in 12 months after completing Lean/Six Sigma cert and added to the annual bonus pool. No big target on my back. Don't need to move my family and its openly hybrid.

Company B) - Never done before VP of Manufacturing role, $225-250K + bunch of other goodies. Except, move an hour and a half away from family and have a significant higher chance of failure. Might time phase this to mitigate risk or buy a condo (possible option). Might eventually need to move the kid, move the wife, and have them endure this risky journey with me. All new daycare, school district, relearn the area. Lot of hassle depression fuel.

Other details, I'm 34 years old - managed small projects over my time in the work force. Never had to fire or hire anyone, but happy to train and mentor the next gen.


Be smart.........ask your wife and kids how they feel........they will help you decide.
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