Cost of Education vs Income

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DavidPellot
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In reply to bmks270 • 2:43p, 12/7/23
bmks270 said:
Got my masters in mechanical engineering. It was well worth it since I had a full scholarship as a graduate research assistant, so cost me nothing. I had about 20k in undergraduate debt and parents and scholarships covered the rest.

I'd say in engineering a graduate degree is worth it these days for the more advanced jobs, at least in mechanical engineering. If you've got the chops for it, I highly recommend it.

On my current team, 10 out of 11 have a graduate degree, and the one who doesn't has 15 years work experience.

Most of the really competitive jobs hire engineers with a masters degree and show preference for it.

I think that a graduate degree gives you benefits not only in the engineering sphere.

I study finance but will certainly continue my education after getting my bachelor's degree. Sometimes I think that it's too hard for me and I want to drop everything, but it's worth it. Besides, nowadays there are a lot of different educational sites and resources, which helps me out a lot. I can find any info I need. Also, I use https://essays.edubirdie.com/assignment-writing-service when I need some help with writing tasks because sometimes they are very complicated and you need to dedicate a lot of time to it. And such professional help allows me to focus on other tasks, which I think are more useful for my future.

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one safe place
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4:07p, 12/7/23
BBA, in accounting. Think it cost me around $4,500 a year, room and board, fees and tuition, etc. Starting salary with a Big 8 CPA firm was $15,500 a year, a cut in pay from what I was used to. Quit after a few months, trapped for a season (around $1,000 a week, just not enough weeks in the season, lol), went back on a workover rig and drilling rig making more than in public accounting.

Then went to work for a local CPA firm and in about four years I went out on my own. It became a matter of being able to make pretty much anything I wanted if I was willing to put in the time to do so. And I did that for 10 years, then quit taking on clients, got rid of others, and kept my income pretty close to what I wanted it to be without having to work all those hours. Two decades later, I hung it up.
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380Ag
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4:38p, 12/10/23
AG
A better comparison would be total cost of education over the amount of time it took degree vs income over same amount of time.
4 yr degree at $80k total vs 4 yrs income at $400k total.
The metric of cost of education vs annual income has always been odd to me, bc, in theory the income lasts much longer than the education.
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HECUBUS
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5:12p, 12/10/23
AG
MSEE $35k 1st year income $40k '91.

Kid:
HS '19
Undergrad $250k '23
Med school $200k - $400k TBD '28
Residency '32 - '33
1st job 12-14 years after graduating HS

You don't go to med school to make a lot of money.


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Kool
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In reply to HECUBUS • 7:55a, 12/11/23
AG
HECUBUS said:
MSEE $35k 1st year income $40k '91.

Kid:
HS '19
Undergrad $250k '23
Med school $200k - $400k TBD '28
Residency '32 - '33
1st job 12-14 years after graduating HS

You don't go to med school to make a lot of money.


Very true words.
I think physicians will make less and less going forward. I would recommend going to med school for any one who:
1) REALLY has a passion for medicine and could see themselves doing it for a very long time
2) Has parents willing to foot the bill for it.
I finished TAMU in 3 years with only a couple thousand dollars of debt.
However, tack on 4 years of med school (with debt) then 6 years of residency then an extra year of fellowship.
You've missed out on a LOT of early earning years, to say nothing of the free time, social time, etc. that essentially being in school that long entails.
I didn't crack earning more than $30,000/year until age 32.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Diggity
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In reply to Kool • 11:42a, 12/11/23
AG
just looked up median MGMA numbers for all practice types in the US, and it's slightly over $400K.

Clearly PCP's don't tend to make this much, but still a well compensated profession.

you do have to account for the lost earnings and cost of education, but you can still make a good amount of money as a doctor.
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AgLA06
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In reply to Diggity • 2:15p, 12/11/23
AG
Diggity said:
just looked up median MGMA numbers for all practice types in the US, and it's slightly over $400K.

Clearly PCP's don't tend to make this much, but still a well compensated profession.

you do have to account for the lost earnings and cost of education, but you can still make a good amount of money as a doctor.


My personal doctor that has been very successful tried to talk his son out of it purely because of the mess our country has created with insurance and the unknown
of how things will work out in the future.

I think pharmacy and Physicians Assistants make a lot of sense when factoring cost of education and compensation. With the messed up medical situation, practices will be leaning more on PAs to cut costs and bridge the gap only increasing demand.
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Diggity
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In reply to AgLA06 • 2:25p, 12/11/23
AG
people are fleeing pharmacy in droves. CVS and Walgreens killed that business.

PA's/APP's make sense in states where you don't need direct physician supervision and they can bill at 100% of MCR. Otherwise, you're just doing all the crap work and making a lot less money.

Conversely, they make a lot of sense for practices from an efficiency standpoint.
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AgLA06
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In reply to Diggity • 2:43p, 12/11/23
AG
They're starting over $100k around here and not paying for medical school or doing a residency. So They're earning 6 figures much quicker than a MD at a fraction of the cost.

It's a bachelors plus 30 month MPA that costs around $45k in Texas.



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Diggity
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In reply to AgLA06 • 2:47p, 12/11/23
AG
median starting salary is closer to $90K. Good money but you cap quickly.

It's not a bad career track for a talented nurse, but I wouldn't be taking the angle that prospective med students would be better off as NPs/PAs
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AgLA06
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In reply to Diggity • 2:56p, 12/11/23
AG
Interesting. I researched this a little for someone else and came to a very different conclusion. Many are getting compensated more like physicians with base plus profit sharing and patient count commissions.

I think you're a little off here. Hell, the median salary in 2014 in Texas was $105K a decade ago.
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Diggity
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In reply to AgLA06 • 3:02p, 12/11/23
AG
might depend on the market/speciality, but that isn't the case in my line of work. They make good money (and a lot more than RN's), but aren't getting rich.

In Texas, you have to have direct supervision from a physician, which limits upside. Not the case in every state.

Also, in most states MCR only reimburses APP's at 85% of fee schedule (if they bill directly), which is pretty poor.
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QBCade
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6:09p, 12/11/23
AG
TAMU '94-'99. BS Electrical Eng

Total was prob $25K including living expenses, maybe less.

Made $45K first job, started summer of '99
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Medaggie
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1:10a, 12/12/23
From a financial/stability standpoint, medicine will always be worth it. But when you factor in loss time esp during the best years of your life, I don't think it is.

You are better off doing NP/PA and make 150K+/yr.

I will say if you have connections, there is alot of money to be made in finances esp the funding side.
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Lavender Gooms
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11:09p, 12/12/23
AG
Likely few have a story/background like mine on here.

Bachelors in Civil Engineering: cost was probably close to $40k-$50k. Loans of around $30,000 - $35,000. Parents covered the rest. Went to A&M right after the legislature deregulated tuition and watched tuition rise 10+% almost every year I was there. Plus all the ridiculous fees too. Still loved my time at A&M, just sucked about the cost of attendance.

MS in Civil Engineering out of state - paid for by the school, couldn't tell you the exact cost. Maybe another $10k in loans to cover excess living costs above the pittance of a stipend I made for those 12 months.

First job made $52k. 4 years later was making $60k and not much better off due to inflation and insurance costs. Plus I hated my job and was ready to get out of that career.

Told my wife I wanted to go into medicine when she was 4 months pregnant and preparing to become a stay at home mom. Working full time, night classes, and renovating a house with a newborn is not something I would recommend.

Spoke with both MDs and PAs and decided on the PA route.

Texas schools weren't really an option as I would have been out of state and they don't take many out of state students. Too bad because they definitely are the most affordable ones. Not worth spending an extra year just to gain residency in Texas though.

PA school loans ended up being around $150k (including some from pre-requisites). The school I went to was unfortunately on the higher end of tuition costs. Thankfully it was in a very affordable city. Initial salary out of school was $90k. Just hit the 5 year mark at my clinic and project $150-$160k next year. Work in rural family practice (still only 30 minutes from a major city). Got $50k in loan repayment for a 2 year contract through the NHSC late in my 3rd year at the clinic. Plan on extending one more year for $20k and loans will be gone.

No regrets on the switch. Love what I do and the good far outweighs the bad. Couldn't say exactly if the move was the smartest financially, but my quality of life is so much better now. If I'd gone the MD/DO route, I'd likely just now be finishing residency at the earliest, with the possibility of 2-3 more years depending on specialty.

PA/NP pay is definitely regional. Western PA, NYC, and most of Florida are definitely some of the worst places in terms of pay vs cost of living. From what I've read, the major cities in Texas are starting to become more saturated with PAs and NPs (could be just anecdotal though).

Just thought I'd share my experience given the most recent posts here about careers in medicine.
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double aught
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10:35a, 12/13/23
AG
I haven't bothered to crunch the numbers, but my time at A&M is priceless to me.
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