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Here's one to stew on: family land/inheritance

136,098 Views | 393 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by schwack schwack
Fighting Texas Aggie
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$100 says your BIL cheats on your sister and ends up with all the land in the end.

I don't know the guy, but the situation sounds unfortunately familiar.
schwack schwack
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AG
Your scenario would not surprise me one bit, FTA. The whole situation is one big giant UGH. Really appreciate the feedback from everybody.
schwack schwack
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quote:
It pisses me off to no end, but not because of it impacting my inheritance.

I hear ya, Bassmaster.
Quinn
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AG
Talk to a professional. Make sure that however things are divided that your parents end up being financially compensated at market value. That is clearly your number 1 concern (with good reason).
Garrelli 5000
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Sorry to add nothing, but your BIL sounds like a first class a-hole.
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PottsDW
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A lot of the responses are tldr, but I can tell you now that you don't want your parents to leave you something 50/50 or any sort of partial between you and your sister.

My dad and his sister had the same set up, she ended up with health issues and died, and we had to fight it out with her estate to keep the property in the family. All agreements, thoughts, plans, and desires were out the window once she was diagnosed terminal.

Either split it legally now, or get some other inheritance from your parents. Unfortunately, It really ruined my dad and his sister relationship at the end of her life.
schwack schwack
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AG
Hello boys & girls - today's word is OSTRICH.

Thanks for all of the thoughtful responses. To update a bit, after talking to my Mom briefly about it over a week ago to see what is really going on, I never got a call back. I called yesterday and it was awkward. I didn't press her for info, just talked about the normal stuff (she was going to stay here a night at the end of the month on her way to some conference, but she's changed her mind...not going now....) and then asked if she'd talk to Sis anymore about it. I told her they were expecting a call back from me at some point & I wanted to know where she & Dad stand before calling. She pretty much shut me down, said Dad didn't say it was a great idea to Sis and that it was too early to talk about this anyway (I agree) and she's going to let it lay low so that it might not come up again. My Dad ALWAYS gets on the phone, but not this time. And that was that.

So, when Sis calls to discuss & asks what they said, I guess I will just tell her that she should proceed with setting up the "family meeting" if that's what she wants. I don't feel like it's my place to tell her they are not ready. Or maybe it is?




Fighting Texas Aggie
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Why not tell her?
schwack schwack
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AG
Why don't my parents tell her is the real question. I don't feel like forcing their hand.

We are both in our late 40's - why is everybody being so weird about having this discussion? Sheesh.
txaggie_08
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AG
I think your parents need to sack up and tell her how they really feel and quit pushing it on you. If your sister calls, maybe just tell her you didn't get the same response from your parents, and if she wants to proceed she should get everyone together to talk it over.
Aggie_3
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How old are your parents? Why not look into a long term care insurance plan since your so adamnet on them needing to pay for care in the future? This will take care of that portion and take the health care side out of it.
schwack schwack
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Early 70's. I'll bring that up with them as as possibility. They are on a very fixed income - not sure how much extra they have per month to cover that, but maybe it's a good option for them.
Aggie_3
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well at that age it would be pretty pricey to get a good one. I completely understand the situation just thought myself being in insurance might have a partial solution to the issue.
schwack schwack
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Thanks Aggie_3!
Aggie_3
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No problem.
GoneGirl
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quote:
The other good thing, especially in a situation like this, is getting an unbiased third party involved takes the emotion out of the decision. A professional in estate planning will be able to see through anyone's anterior motives and ensure that everyone is treated fairly according to your parents' wishes. It will cost some money, but it will save everyone a lot of grief and angst when the time comes to split up the assets.
Best of luck to you that your situation is resolved amicably.
This. And remember, if your sister and her husband are putting the hard sell on your parents, it might be hard for them to say no. It's not that they're lying to you, just having a hard time dealing with the pressure and looking to you to help provide them an out.

Take a quiet weekend and sit down with them - just them - and calmly talk through the issues. Let them know how you feel and that it disturbs you to see the property that is supposed to take care of them first being squabbled over. Let them know that you support them - and want what is best for them first. Your sister and her husband aren't the priority.

Let them know you understand that they've always wanted what is best for their kids, but they have to think of their future first. They aren't being selfish - they've worked for this.

THEN suggest getting an estate planner to help make a plan that will work for everyone. A plan that will see them and both of you, using the property to the best advantage for everyone's needs.

Right now they probably feel they're being hit from both sides and it's human nature (especially old humans) to give in to the side putting the most pressure. Especially if your sister has always been the kid who was more needy.

And make it parents and kids only - no spouses. Neither of you can be expected to make financial decisions without your spouse, but get the initial ground rules settled first before adding them to the mix.
schwack schwack
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Thank you, TxElsie. I am going to suggest a sit-down.
cottonpicker
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On the mineral rights side of it, they can be split evenly across all the property or according to how the land is split up. Think very carefully about how that's done. I can see different scenarios where you may want them to drill and sis does not because she lives there. Or if they get the rights then that could eventually become the place they drill and you get left out. I've seen these things happen and life changing money only goes to one sibling. Lots of hard feelings. Just water sales off the land while drilling and fracing can be substantial.
schwack schwack
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I think it's gonna be a mess no matter what we do. In a perfect world, I would like for this to happen: My parents live out their lives there. We get it 50/50. Sis buys me out & I retain half of the mineral rights.

Things have gone into silent mode. Parents avoiding all discussion on this & kinda short with me on every call. Dad has not gotten on the phone since & that's unusual. Not a call from Sis since the day she brought it up.
AgAE
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This situation is exactly why discounts are appropriate and applicble in the valuation of undivided interests.
1939
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There is a really easy solution here. Carve out a small piece for the sister to build on near the entrance and then put the rest of the land in a revocable trust with you and your sister owning 50%. That way if the property needs to be sold by your parents it still sell it and the sister can still keep her house and a few acres. Once your parents die then you spit the land equally and you sell your half.

I don't really understand what you are talking about with the "shared driveway". Is there no frontage along any roadway with the property bordering a railroad track and only one crossing onto the property? If so it would not be difficult at all to draw the property line so that the entrance to each of the two tracts are right next to each other. That will not affect the value of the property or scare off any potential buyers.
1939
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quote:
This situation is exactly why discounts are appropriate and applicble in the valuation of undivided interests.
except that in this case the person being hurt by the discount would be the poster. That's why it would be better to just split the property instead of them owning an undivided interest.
schwack schwack
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There is a single RR crossing & it's the only access to the property. It can't be changed or widened. I guess once you crossed it on the single "lane" that crosses it, their drainage culverts & right of way, you could fork into 2 driveways. Never thought about that. Right now my parents are in a no-discussion mood.
schwack schwack
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AgAE & 1939 - I am not well versed in divided/undivided interest in property. I need to start googling & try to come up to speed.
dudeabides
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AG

There's a lot of great advice above. However, most of it is centered around preserving everyone's financial interest. The part of the discussion that is lacking is emotional side of things and the relationships.

More than twenty years ago, I was placed into a similar situation (parents owned a 200+ acre farm/ranch with one lane of egress, my brother and his wife wanted to live there, etc), however, my parents never asked my opinion and just gave them an acre and the small old house/garage that was on it. I got nothing. At the time, it really didn't bother me, as that was my parent's decision and I wasn't concerned about fairness. As long as everyone was happy, that was good enough for me.

For many years, life was great for all involved. They all lived on the farm, they grew closer together, and a mutual beneficial relationship developed (as both parties need assistance from the other). Then everything changed overnight. There were accusations of my bother/his wife not respecting my parent's portion of the property (inviting guests to go hunting on it without notification), allegations of spying with telescopes, hiding behind bushes, and showing up at each other's houses unannounced, etc. The tension got unbearable and both parties tried to draw me into their side of the fight. I tried to remain neutral (as best I could) but everyone got mad anyway. The situation got so bad that my brother/his wife would not speak to my father for many years. The night before he pasted, I pleaded with them to come visit my father (literally right next door) as my father knew his time was up and he wanted to reconcile. Fortunately, that happened, but just barely.

However, before he passed, at a time when he was still upset/untrusting of my brother, my father changed his will and my mother's will so that I was the sole executor the estate. I was also granted durable power of attorney too. I think that devastated my brother and caused an irreparable fissure in our relationship. Although I refused to go along with any changes that would alter the 50/50 distribution of the estate and I promised to seek my brother's concurrence for any POA actions that I may take, it didn't make any difference. It's now been nearly 7 years since that happened and my brother still doesn't communicate much with me, this despite my constant attempts to keep him fully informed on my end. Very sad...

The point of all this rambling is that while you can't predict what is going to happen, there is a chance that the relationships could go sour. With both stuck on the same property, there's no room for a retreat by either party. The old saying "fences make good neighbors" applies here too. We all need boundaries in our lives. When you tear them down, bad things can happen.

I highly recommend the book "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud. It speaks volumes about this kind of stuff.


schwack schwack
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Thank you tnelle for sharing your story. I fear that something similar might happen here. I will look into the book you suggest.
TXAGFAN
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quote:
"it's ok, we've accounted for everything in the wills." She just doesn't get it.
i doubt very much they've considered all this borrowing of money in the will.
AgAE
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quote:
quote:
This situation is exactly why discounts are appropriate and applicble in the valuation of undivided interests.
except that in this case the person being hurt by the discount would be the poster. That's why it would be better to just split the property instead of them owning an undivided interest.
Absolutely. But can it be partitioned in kind is the question.
Bassmaster
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I agree. However, that's really not my concern right now. Even if it were addressed in the wills, it's still going to be my problem because he'll still feel entitled to something at that point.
hammerhead
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This is how family land seems to no longer be in the family....

While I wish that my wife had brothers or sisters, deep down i know her being an only child prevents any of this ever being an issue with the land/house/etc..not to mention not having to ask/discuss with anyone on new fences, which cows to sell..

Best of luck in getting it sorted out
schwack schwack
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I wish our family stuff was going to so simple.
harrierdoc
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Status?
SoTheySay
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S
This post actually sparked some conversations at our house. I'm afraid we're going to be equally screwed. Parents and a family member live in the same house. They all own the homestead - but the homestead sits in the prime location of the rest of the land that is in a trust.

Found out recently that there is no plan as to what happens.
Aggie Rick
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