I was discussing a boy/girl sharing...of course two boys or two girls can share a room.

"worked 40 years to get" is ridiculous. This would put people at age 60 before they bought more than a "modest 3/2 bedroom" home?

Edit

I think most people would love to buy the house they grew up in (where your parents are likely age 25-45), but again, that 3/2 1200 sqft home for $120,000 just isn't a thing. You'd be hardpressed to find that house for under $250,000 in a desirable (metro) area.

_lefraud_ said:

---

I was discussing a boy/girl sharing...of course two boys or two girls can share a room.

"worked 40 years to get" is ridiculous. This would put people at age 60 before they bought more than a "modest 3/2 bedroom" home?

Edit

I think most people would love to buy the house they grew up in (where your parents are likely age 25-45), but again, that 3/2 1200 sqft home for $120,000 just isn't a thing. You'd be hardpressed to find that house for under $250,000 in a desirable (metro) area.

---

Good point. The answer to this debate is somewhere in the middle.

_lefraud_ said:

---

woodiewood1 said:

---

Buyer of modest incomes can afford homes. The main issue is that they want most of what their parents worked 40 years to get. First time home buyers don't need a separate bedroom for every boy and girl child. The don't need workout rooms and offices. Don't need an kitchen with a large island and separate dining room. Don't even need a dedicated laundry room, nor an outdoor kitchen.

Get a modest 3/2 with a two car garage.

---

WFH is way more common now and isn't going anywhere. So a dedicated office space is certainly a must for a lot of families. Unless the boy/girl are less than say 10, they'll each need their own room.

Buying a "modest home" in a desirable or even decent metro area in TX just isn't a thing right now.

---

Thanks for proving my point.

3/2 are still pretty common for anything 2500 sq/ft or lower. One thing I have noticed is with the addition of an extra bedroom or office, the square footage hasn't really changed, but the room sizes have all declined to accommodate the extra room or office. To me, that makes an older 3/2 more attractive to me.

Quote:

---

Recession, unemployment, and all the paperwork you had to do to get your loans. No mention of the long term quantitative easing that more or less spurred free money for a decade creating a low risk environment for you personally to flip homes multiple times and not be that worried about the potential for job loss, etc. Thats wtf heroes of your own story means.

---

LOL...wut? Recession in '08 and another mini one in '11. I'm not even 20 years into my career, and I've faced 2 recessions and a pandemic that literally had the government telling people to shut their businesses and dictated what industries were "essential," resulting in double digit unemployment (2nd time since I entered the work force) Others have faced this as well, and somehow, we've all been able to find ways to buy a house or two. Again, we just don't go to the internet to cry about how hard life is and ask for the government to give us stuff.

Quote:

---

I'm big enough to admit we've had it pretty good since leaving school. Yeah there was the credit crisis on 2008 but really… the near term economy that sets lending environments and housing markets recovered really quickly from that mostly due to the QE and such that we all benefited from… including me.

I'm proud that I was opportunistic about it like you were and have made the most of it. Doesn't change the fact that the opportunity window has closed significantly now though on those exactly where we were 10-15 years ago.

---

There are opportunities out there today, but again, people's expectations about what they deserve or need are skewed. The funny part is you and I are both arguing each side for a very small minority of Millennials and Gen Z. Most will find a way to get what they want, while we continue to chat about the vocal minority who can't handle leaving the nest.

Quote:

---

Encourage you to do the math on it as a thought exercise but do it objectively. I've done it on what my starting salary probably would be today, likely expenses, likely student debt vs. earnings I'd make today in school vs. what I made then and interest rate environment today. It's not a pretty picture. There's a reason a lot of kids today are choosing to live at home for a few years vs. getting their own place out of school. The economic starting point they are dealing with is nearly night and day to what it was 20 years ago.

---

My starting salary in January 2005 was $12/hr. For reference, I was making $9/hr driving a bus at A&M. Would my student loan debt be higher? Probably, but I also didn't keep anything left over after I paid for tuition and fees, which kept my outstanding down quite a bit. There were some semesters I'd have almost as much as my tuition left over that I could have taken. I'm so happy I thought better and told them I didn't need it and gave it back. I worked during the summers and while at A&M to pay for books and other things I'd need. I'll agree the interest rates are much higher than when I went.

You bring up a good point about kids choosing to live at home for a few years now vs then, but I wonder how much of that are the parents, and if that is why this current generation is so soft? They know their parents would let them come back with open arms, where for many of us 20 years ago, our parents changed the locks and turned our rooms into craft rooms and such the moment we graduated college. "Oh, you want to come back? Rent will be $700/mo plus 1/3 of bills. You do your own laundry and don't drink my beer. Keep your hoars away. Your mother and I don't need to see that. You're parking your car on the street. I suggest you buy a good lawn mower, because it's a weekly lease requirement."

Quote:

---

I think most people would love to buy the house they grew up in (where your parents are likely age 25-45), but again, that 3/2 1200 sqft home for $120,000 just isn't a thing. You'd be hardpressed to find that house for under $250,000 in a desirable (metro) area.

---

Once again, thank you for proving my point.

aTm2004 said:

---

3/2 are still pretty common for anything 2500 sq/ft or lower. One thing I have noticed is with the addition of an extra bedroom or office, the square footage hasn't really changed, but the room sizes have all declined to accommodate the extra room or office.

---

But what proportion of overall home builds is that? Has that percentage changed over time? I am guessing that it's gotten lower, but some hard stats would be nice.

As for the modest 3/2 discussion and need nowadays for a home work space, I am living that scenario right now! We are in a very modest 3/2 in a desirable town and due to family constraints my "office" is a desk in the master bedroom with a monitor.

I am in a high COL area so I did a fun check just now on what the same amount of house would be in Katy, TX (randomly chose this). Found a 3/2 in Katy that is >25% larger in sqf and the cost is less than half of what our home would get right now. Could get a 4/4 + that is >125% larger than our home in Katy for the same price as ours. I guess my point in that data is, I don't feel too sorry for Texas homebuyers.

That being said, there are 2 things that seem to be going on. Looks like all the new builds for sale are 4/3 +...but I did see a few 3/2s for sale. I think the newer constructions getting larger over time has been discussed on here.

Additionally the cost/sqf is still low, so the market of potential homebuyers is that much larger for everything.

Quote:

---

But what proportion of overall home builds is that? Has that percentage changed over time? I am guessing that it's gotten lower, but some hard stats would be nice.

---

I'm not sure, but that would be interesting to see.

Quote:

---

As for the modest 3/2 discussion and need nowadays for a home work space, I am living that scenario right now! We are in a very modest 3/2 in a desirable town and due to family constraints my "office" is a desk in the master bedroom with a monitor.

---

When COVID hit, my wife took our office since she was teaching and I sat in that random chair in everyone's master that never gets used and worked off my laptop. When they finally let us back into the office in 2022, I swiped an extra docking station and now work in our actual office, something my first house didn't have, but our 2nd did. Our garage is detached and extra deep, and the previous owners finished out some of it and put a window unit in. I guess they used it as an extra bedroom or something. We turned it into a home gym, but I've honestly thought about moving out there because when they kids are home, it gets pretty rowdy here. But this is also not my starter home. This is the house my kids will know as "my parents worked years to get."

Quote:

---

I am in a high COL area so I did a fun check just now on what the same amount of house would be in Katy, TX (randomly chose this). Found a 3/2 in Katy that is >25% larger in sqf and the cost is less than half of what our home would get right now. Could get a 4/4 + that is >125% larger than our home in Katy for the same price as ours. I guess my point in that data is, I don't feel too sorry for Texas homebuyers.

---

Yeah, the differences in what is available if you're OK with a commute vs living in town or close to the office is quite different. With remote work becoming more mainstream, I wonder if this will soon change.

I just looked on HAR to see what's available in a 3/2 for $250k and below, and there are quite a few around me. In the area I bought my first place, there are tons, but that's not what many would call a "desirable" area of Houston, But for a first place, it would be fine, especially if you don't have kids (Aldine ISD). Looked at a 4/3 for the same price, and there are about the same number of houses in each area. I'm on the NE side of Houston, so looking at Porter, Kingwood, Atascocita area, there are ~90 places for sale for $250k or less, ranging from a 3100 sq/ft fixer upper to a 1000 sq/ft trailer on some acreage.