Idea for league merger

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vwbug
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6:31a, 2/19/25
Plus/Minus for a new combined league idea. Throw out how you would edit if you wish

- Still called the PGA Tour
- Starts in January
- Always ends last week before College football starts
- Traditional PGA schedule , but every three weeks is a 54-hole Legends event that is essentially "liv style"
- To ease merger, LIV players are given pga status based on an agreed benchmark from the previous year For world golf rankings, same thing.
- For majors, special one year exemption adds top 25 finishers from LIV previous year to each of those events

Contracts in place for liv pay currently? Feel free to add those ideas of transition below
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The Milkman
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In reply to vwbug • 7:40a, 2/19/25
AG
Top 25 from LIV to the majors? Brendan Steele and Lucas Herbert and players of that ilk?
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leachfan
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In reply to vwbug • 7:52a, 2/19/25
vwbug said:
54-hole Legends event that is essentially "liv style"
Honest question, and I've never watched an LIV event, does anyone even like this among fans and players?
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class of 03
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In reply to leachfan • 8:52a, 2/19/25
No
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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In reply to vwbug • 9:49a, 2/19/25
vwbug said:
Plus/Minus for a new combined league idea. Throw out how you would edit if you wish

- Still called the PGA Tour
- Starts in January
- Always ends last week before College football starts
- Traditional PGA schedule , but every three weeks is a 54-hole Legends event that is essentially "liv style"
- To ease merger, LIV players are given pga status based on an agreed benchmark from the previous year For world golf rankings, same thing.
- For majors, special one year exemption adds top 25 finishers from LIV previous year to each of those events

Contracts in place for liv pay currently? Feel free to add those ideas of transition below

  • I doubt they change the name, that's just bad marketing
  • The real season starts in January and finishes end of August already. I personally REALLY like the Fall schedule they have now. Let the lessor known players and under-qualified players battle for spots in the regular season. There's no reason not to have golf every week of the year when you can move around the entire country.
  • I don't think the PGA needs to tweak the schedule much more. I really think they found a winner with the January-August regular season/playoffs and letting everyone else use the Fall to earn exemptions and status. I could see 1-2 LIV style, smaller field, shotgun start events, but every three weeks is not a business model. Too much lost Ad spend.
  • I'm guessing that when the inevitable merging of players happens, there will be a ton of specifically thought out "benchmarks" that will bring back the players the actually want. It sounds cold, but who cares about being fair? It's millionaires playing golf, and they all made a choice. Some of them are going to "pay the price" and not get free exemption, some of them are going to be welcomed back because they draw viewers and sponsors. That's how America rolls. The World Rankings are already kind of a joke, I don't really care much how they handle this.
  • Previous Major winners can get exemptions to PGA Majors, but that's about it. Isn't top 25 from LIV half of their roster? Seems like an absurd number of not-great golfers getting cheap invites.
  • As for the LIV contracts already in place? If LIV merges with PGA, I don't think those contracts are going to matter much. The PGA can't make them return the money. Either let them come back with their money in hand, or ban them forever and move on. You can't have it both ways. The sport seems to want Rahm and DJ and the likes to come back, so just let them back.


I personally dislike LIV, I dislike the format, and I dislike moving the goalposts so that their guys could get their money and come back to the tour with no consequences. It all sucks. But the divided tour is worse and I don't care about their stupid bank accounts, so just bring them back so we can watch them all play against each other and move on with our lives.
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vwbug
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9:53a, 2/19/25
I don't like LIV either, but I miss seeing a large number of the best players in the world not playing Pebble Beach, not playing on the tour regularly. I'm ready for them to merge, thought this would "throw LIV a bone" and settle it, but all good points. Maybe top 10 from LIV get in majors,

I could see mixing it up every few weeks with a different format being a good change up from time to time on tour.

Oh, and what is the big change with the tour championship this year? Did they change the format?
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Obi Wan Ginobili
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10:38a, 2/19/25
I'm with you, I want them all in the same field. Golf was better that way.

The optics of the situation don't match reality and it hasn't since LIV started. The ridiculous wealth that LIV can swing around has made the math impossible. Someone(s) or something(s) is going to get treated "unfairly" to merge these two back together. It seems inevitable that means the popular LIV guys will back and the less popular guys will have to earn their way back. Boo hoo for them, hope they cashed in while on the LIV tour.
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jonj101
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11:22a, 2/19/25
AG
It is so hard for me to watch professional golf anymore. Even when the reunification happens, I'm basically indifferent to it anymore. I went from keeping up-to-date and even watching rebroadcasts of Thursday rounds, to only occasionally tuning in to the majors.

Maybe I'm an outlier, and hopefully for the sake of the sport there are a number of folks like yall that are eager to see it thrive again. And maybe I'll come around again. But as for now I'm disconnected.
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DannyDuberstein
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11:59a, 2/19/25
AG
I don't expect any miracles here. I think we get 4-6 combined events (namely PGA events that the top X LIV players are allowed to play in) and that's about it. Nothing is really going to combine until the Saudis get tired of paying crazy bonuses for guys to switch, and I don't know when or if that will happen. Not expecting any time soon
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98Ag99Grad
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12:41p, 2/19/25
AG
The $5B the PIF has sunk in to LIV could have been going to the PGAT had they answered the phone a few years ago. How TF does Monahan still have a job?
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MW03
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2:25p, 2/19/25
AG
They need a Ryder Cup style event, only every year. The Super Bowl of Golf, only how it was in the old days before the AFL merged. Your Top 12 versus mine. Alternate years with one tour hosting on one of their courses. IYou hate what LIV has done to professional golf? Good. Go buy some merch and taunt the LIV guys live and in person while you root on Rory, et al. know they won't because the PGAT doesn't want to legitimize LIV, but they could all make a ton of money.
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AgLA06
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In reply to class of 03 • 2:44p, 2/19/25
AG
class of 03 said:
No
People that actually attend the tournaments say otherwise.
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AgLA06
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In reply to MW03 • 2:46p, 2/19/25
AG
MW03 said:
They need a Ryder Cup style event, only every year. The Super Bowl of Golf, only how it was in the old days before the AFL merged. Your Top 12 versus mine. Alternate years with one tour hosting on one of their courses. IYou hate what LIV has done to professional golf? Good. Go buy some merch and taunt the LIV guys live and in person while you root on Rory, et al. know they won't because the PGAT doesn't want to legitimize LIV, but they could all make a ton of money.
I like this.

Unfortunately, you are most likely correct. PGA would rather not play this than potentially lose.
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class of 03
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 3:25p, 2/19/25
I don't think the PIF wanted to just give PGAT $5Bill, let's not underthink that for a minute. Surely they had a list of wants in exchange for large buckets of money, which may or may not have even been considered by the PGAT brass.
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98Ag99Grad
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In reply to class of 03 • 3:34p, 2/19/25
AG
well yeah, I'm guessing they wouldn't have just handed it over but it probably wouldn't have meant golf being split in two for multiple years either. The Tour was dumb to at least not listen.
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MW03
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3:40p, 2/19/25
AG
I suspect this is all going to end with LIV siphoning off enough that it hurts the PGAT enough that the Saudis buy PGAT outright. It just depends on whether the Saudis are obstinate enough to wait the PGAT out.
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jja79
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In reply to jonj101 • 4:39p, 2/19/25
AG
I'm with you. I was a serious golf watcher who now watches infrequently. I don't really care what they do.
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JCA1
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In reply to 98Ag99Grad • 6:11p, 2/19/25
AG
98Ag99Grad said:
The $5B the PIF has sunk in to LIV could have been going to the PGAT had they answered the phone a few years ago. How TF does Monahan still have a job?


Monahan needs to lose his job but it's not for not taking that call. That was right on the heels of the Saudis murdering and dismembering Khashoggi. They were international pariahs. No one, much less a sports league with non connection to them whatsoever, was taking that call then. And rightly so.

Just because they spent an ungodly sum to force their way into golf doesn't change that.
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AgLA06
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In reply to JCA1 • 9:12p, 2/19/25
AG
JCA1 said:
98Ag99Grad said:
The $5B the PIF has sunk in to LIV could have been going to the PGAT had they answered the phone a few years ago. How TF does Monahan still have a job?


Monahan needs to lose his job but it's not for not taking that call. That was right on the heels of the Saudis murdering and dismembering Khashoggi. They were international pariahs. No one, much less a sports league with non connection to them whatsoever, was taking that call then. And rightly so.

Just because they spent an ungodly sum to force their way into golf doesn't change that.


You don't get to have PGAT China and pretend to be a saint.
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JCA1
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9:16p, 2/19/25
AG
I didn't claim anyone was a saint. I was just pointing out that, when you run a successful and non-controversial sports league (which the tour was back then), deciding against partnering with a foreign government immediately after they murder a journalist isn't exactly a fireable offense. It's what literally everyone would have done.
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98Ag99Grad
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9:34p, 2/19/25
AG
Listening to what they have to say doesn't mean you make a deal that night. Let the smoke die down then invite them back to the table. PGAT would've been negotiating from a position of strength then.
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Txroper
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5:28a, 2/20/25
AG
I personally know one of the LIV players and he has said that there are players on the LIV tour that do not want to be part of the PGA tour. They would rather not play than go back to the PGA tour.
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Sooper Jeenyus
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In reply to Txroper • 7:00a, 2/20/25
AG
Txroper said:
I personally know one of the LIV players and he has said that there are players on the LIV tour that do not want to be part of the PGA tour. They would rather not play than go back to the PGA tour.
Tell him to let Sergio know we don't want him back either.
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class of 03
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In reply to Txroper • 7:19a, 2/20/25
I'd imagine most of the folks that left the tour don't want to come back. Many many reasons to justify that position.
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vwbug
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7:26a, 2/20/25
What are the three top reasons you think they wouldn't want to come back?
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class of 03
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7:53a, 2/20/25
1) don't need the money
2) pride
3) tour keeps getting younger, competition
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Txroper
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In reply to vwbug • 8:04a, 2/20/25
AG
The biggest reason my friend doesn't want to come back is because of the way the PGA treats the superstar versus everyone else. Two different set of rules. And this guy has wins on tour.
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Sooper Jeenyus
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In reply to Txroper • 8:42a, 2/20/25
AG
Txroper said:
The biggest reason my friend doesn't want to come back is because of the way the PGA treats the superstar versus everyone else. Two different set of rules. And this guy has wins on tour.
Such is life…
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JCA1
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In reply to Txroper • 8:55a, 2/20/25
AG
Txroper said:
The biggest reason my friend doesn't want to come back is because of the way the PGA treats the superstar versus everyone else. Two different set of rules. And this guy has wins on tour.


A LIV guy complaining that the rank and file aren't treated well enough is rich. LIV's goal was to drastically reduce pro golf from 120 each week (with opportunities to play your way in and out of that 120) to 48 (with opportunities to join still murky). To the extent LIV has rank and file guys, it's only because they were unable to attract bigger names.

Unless your buddy is well within the top 40 guys in the world (which it doesn't sound like based on your comment), if LIV had done what they hoped to do, it's quite likely he wouldn't be playing golf for a living at all.
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Txroper
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In reply to JCA1 • 9:03a, 2/20/25
AG
He was consistently in the top 50. He was making a good living on the PGA. He was consistently winning over 2 million every year.
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DannyDuberstein
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9:04a, 2/20/25
AG
Well, LIV kind of gets rid of the rank and file. Hard to deny that
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JCA1
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In reply to Txroper • 9:14a, 2/20/25
AG
Txroper said:
He was consistently in the top 50. He was making a good living on the PGA. He was consistently winning over 2 million every year.


That's awesome. I mean that sincerely.

But my point still stands. The only use LIV has for the rank and file is to fill spots until they can get someone better. If LIV had succeeded, pro golf would be drastically reduced and about 2/3 of current pro golfers would have to go sell insurance. Maybe your buddy could have stayed in that top echelon and kept his spot. Who knows? But there's literally no argument that LIV is a better set up for the average tour player than the PGA. I would argue your buddy caught lightning in a bottle and what he's experienced the last couple years isn't sustainable.
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jonj101
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9:18a, 2/20/25
AG
I know in the original thread some of us sparred about this quite a bit, but I agree that Monahan is lousy and should have been shown the door long ago. Imo:

1) He should have taken the call. Just because so many hate Greg Norman and you currently had all the top talent didn't make it wise to not at least understand where your opposition was coming from/what options you had, etc. Then later on when they mobilized against you, you wanted to whine about not having the resources to compete with a sovereign nation. You knew that when the situation first arose.

2) Using the 9/11 families as fodder and pawns to attack Phil and the rest of the players that departed was cowardly and despicable. Then when the merger happened they discarded those folks like yesterdays garbage. I did not agree with athletes being held responsible and accountable for working with a Saudi backed org when the global government community didn't hold SA responsible. But to take it to the level of parading the families out for press conferences and then drop them was pathetic and demonstrated zero integrity. Absolutely shameful leadership. (Or lack of).

I'll pause there for now.
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JCA1
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9:25a, 2/20/25
AG
To me, Monahan's biggest fireable offense is he, quite frankly, didn't do his job when he was needed to most and outsourced it to his players. He's paid the big bucks to take the arrows and the dude went MIA for the better part of several years. I'm surprised the players aren't more pissed about this. He must be real charming behind closed doors.
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Bunk Moreland
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9:38a, 2/20/25
The biggest problem with PGAT leadership, and this has been an issue long before LIV came along, is that they are just stiff. Monahan is the definition of a stiff.

They like what they like. They like their position. They like the smell of their own farts. They only listen to certain entities on the Tour and blow smoke up the asses of others. They never change until things are so dire that they're forced to. Not forward thinking in any way. Monahan does not evoke a single quality in a leader that you'd want, yet he continues to be well rewarded for being stiff.

LIV has absolutely exposed all of that, and it continues even with the innovations LIV forced on the PGAT like TGL and others. On the positive...they're trying to be progressive and innovative, but they end up doing it in the same old fashioned way. Secure corporate sponsors and PE money, only include your top handful of guys to have their voices heard, let them secure a massive bag, do it all behind closed doors and not transparently. When it's done, you toss a small bone to the Tour rank and file (20% equity in TGL) and expect them to thank you for being so generous and not including you in the process. You had Tour players in public arguments with guys like Rory about it just up to a week or 2 ago.

The other thing that I think a lot of golf fans in the US still do is view the PGAT/LIV issue through such a US-dominated lens when LIV still very much sees their league as worldwide and ultimately where they want to take whatever the end result of the top league in golf ends up being. Which is why for now I tend to agree with Duberstein...in the short term it'll be some deal where x amount of LIV guys play in a select amount of Tour events and LIV allows a PGAT team or 2 to enter LIV events when they're here in the US, or maybe overseas ahead of the Open, etc.

The philosophies of both tours still are very different on where they want golf to go.
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