Is anyone interested in having a dedicated thread discussing all things with new home building or remodeling? Questions of building science, materials, costs, methods, etc? Im a long time homebuilder and think it could be a really good thread.

If not, we can just let it die

I'm game! Wifey and I are planning to build a new home in the next couple of years and would like to read/hear comments on all kinds of subjects relating to a new home build. Count me in!

Sweet. Just start asking questions. Im just one of many builders that post here or you could get info from. But, im game to answer just about anything to my knowledge and experience

I'm about to sign a contract on a custom build. Looks like it's a standard TAB form. Anything I should look out for? Do I need to have an attorney review?

sellthefarm said:

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I'm about to sign a contract on a custom build. Looks like it's a standard TAB form. Anything I should look out for? Do I need to have an attorney review?

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Ianal. Just want to start with that

The TAB contract is written by builders, for builders. It definitely is more pro builder than pro client.

I always advise my clients to have their lawyer look it over before signing. I doubt all builders do that and I sometimes question our decision to be amicable to some alterations.

I dont know how other builders work, but we are open to some amendments to the tab contract. Things like "in the builders sole discretion" in some areas that should be decision shared by the clients in the building of their custom home.

Theres a social media clause that's new where you give permission for your project to be posted on social media. We've had a few clients wanting to alter that.

Contract price, intitial payment, draw request and # of days to pay, # of days to complete project, cure days for default, definition of substantially complete, contract outs, warranty, change orders are all things among others that you need to be really informed about and how the contract defines such things.

I can't recall a time when we didn't get a few request to change at least some of the language to even it out a bit.

I like the idea of a homebuilder thread.

The only thing I'm wary of, and I think most posters are wary of is asking questions and being solicited for services when just looking for information.

Otherwise, I look forward to the topic and learning from what this community can offer.

I hear ya. I will not solicit you. Can't speak for any other who might participate in this thread.

My thought was building is complicated and foreign to most people. I was speaking with a client yesterday about how much trouble they had before their project- selecting a builder, design, material selection, etc, and thought my fellow ags might like an "insider's" point of view.

I lurk here and thought it'd be fun

Aggiehomebuilder84 said:

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I hear ya. I will not solicit you. Can't speak for any other who might participate in this thread.

My thought was building is complicated and foreign to most people. I was speaking with a client yesterday about how much trouble they had before their project- selecting a builder, design, material selection, etc, and thought my fellow ags might like an "insider's" point of view.

I lurk here and thought it'd be fun

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I'm in.

As a career cabinetmaker, I'm mostly an interior guy (kitchens, baths, built-ins, bars, mantels) so would stay in my lane. I've done a handful of other types of remodeling projects but would love to offer what I can. No one young (at least around my area) wants to learn this stuff so I'd love to pass on any info.

Best retrofit soft-close slides? Not looking to break the bank, just tired of slamming drawers.

Awesome.

Its relatively easy to explain the difference in quality between custom cabinets and store bought. What ive found hard to explain is the difference in usability.

Custom cabinets use every bit of usebale space. We've deleted entire pantry rooms through just better cabinet design. There's less fillers, less dead space.

bkag9824 said:

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Best retrofit soft-close slides? Not looking to break the bank, just tired of slamming drawers.

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Have done this several times, but it is a pain, maybe a few solutions depending on what level of 'comfort' and performance you are looking for.

Major issue is that old school slides (enamel runners, side mount ball bearing type like K&V or Accuride) need one inch (1/2" on either side) clearance from drawer box to cabinet side. Blum, their Blumotion slides, are awesome. Great actions, return spring, quiet, smooth, and great micro adjustments. It is standard in my world, have been for years, and I build to accommodate them...flush sides (either frameless construction, easy peasy, or frame style, packed out side walls or cabinet walls built to be flush with inside of face frame). Primary issue is that Blum slides only require 3/8", 3/16" clearance on either side.

So to retrofit, you would have to get new drawer boxes...could be pricey. Or, you have to pack out the cabinet sides 5/16". If you get into a rhythm, and can cut down material to 5/16" this could work out fine. One issue though I will address later.

Or, Blums, if ordered a certain way, will have a rear bracket that would mount to the rear of the cabinet that would eliminate, or limit, the amount of packing out you need to do. However, not sure how much of a contortionist you are, but I find it hard to crawl inside a cabinet, mount the bracket accurately, making a drilling jig would help... I usually just pack it out.

A few little issues can come up with the drawer box construction. Blums work/mount best when there is a 1/2" recess from the side of the drawer box to the bottom of the bottom. There are mounting clips that need to mount to the drawer box. And you need mounting holes for the slide's pins in the back. 5/8" thick box construction works best. But 1/2" or 3/4" thick can work too with some adjustments to your system. Plus, Blums work best with 15", 18", 21", 24". Old school boxes usually are 20" deep so you have to pack the back out 1".

I have found that the 'self closing' option of ball bearing slides are marginal, you have to close the drawer 95% to have it 'catch'. Push Blums 2/3 the way and they close soft and quiet. Self closing enamels also don't work well. I don't have a lot of experience with other brands as Blums have been my standard forever.

I know I went into a lot of specifics here. There are still a few nuances of doing this that I could go over with you. Seeing or describing your cabinet side walls, and then the drawer box construction would be a big help.

Any way you go, doing the first one is always a nightmare, it takes forever. But once you get the first one done; sizing, alterations, drilling, packing out....it will get far easier with each one after. Also be careful buying, some internet prices are ridiculous. I get Blums for around $23 per pair, then $8 for the locking devices for the drawer box.

Let me know what you think, hopefully I can save you a bunch of time and frustration.

1988PA-Aggie said:

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bkag9824 said:

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Best retrofit soft-close slides? Not looking to break the bank, just tired of slamming drawers.

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Have done this several times, but it is a pain, maybe a few solutions depending on what level of 'comfort' and performance you are looking for.

Major issue is that old school slides (enamel runners, side mount ball bearing type like K&V or Accuride) need one inch (1/2" on either side) clearance from drawer box to cabinet side. Blum, their Blumotion slides, are awesome. Great actions, return spring, quiet, smooth, and great micro adjustments. It is standard in my world, have been for years, and I build to accommodate them...flush sides (either frameless construction, easy peasy, or frame style, packed out side walls or cabinet walls built to be flush with inside of face frame). Primary issue is that Blum slides only require 3/8", 3/16" clearance on either side.

So to retrofit, you would have to get new drawer boxes...could be pricey. Or, you have to pack out the cabinet sides 5/16". If you get into a rhythm, and can cut down material to 5/16" this could work out fine. One issue though I will address later.

Or, Blums, if ordered a certain way, will have a rear bracket that would mount to the rear of the cabinet that would eliminate, or limit, the amount of packing out you need to do. However, not sure how much of a contortionist you are, but I find it hard to crawl inside a cabinet, mount the bracket accurately, making a drilling jig would help... I usually just pack it out.

A few little issues can come up with the drawer box construction. Blums work/mount best when there is a 1/2" recess from the side of the drawer box to the bottom of the bottom. There are mounting clips that need to mount to the drawer box. And you need mounting holes for the slide's pins in the back. 5/8" thick box construction works best. But 1/2" or 3/4" thick can work too with some adjustments to your system. Plus, Blums work best with 15", 18", 21", 24". Old school boxes usually are 20" deep so you have to pack the back out 1".

I have found that the 'self closing' option of ball bearing slides are marginal, you have to close the drawer 95% to have it 'catch'. Push Blums 2/3 the way and they close soft and quiet. Self closing enamels also don't work well. I don't have a lot of experience with other brands as Blums have been my standard forever.

I know I went into a lot of specifics here. There are still a few nuances of doing this that I could go over with you. Seeing or describing your cabinet side walls, and then the drawer box construction would be a big help.

Any way you go, doing the first one is always a nightmare, it takes forever. But once you get the first one done; sizing, alterations, drilling, packing out....it will get far easier with each one after. Also be careful buying, some internet prices are ridiculous. I get Blums for around $23 per pair, then $8 for the locking devices for the drawer box.

Let me know what you think, hopefully I can save you a bunch of time and frustration.

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Great info, thank you.

I would have thought swapping drawer slides would be fairly straightforward for a mass-produced cabinet like Kent Moore but seems my assumptions have done what they normally do. Would be more than happy to pay for some advice after reading your great detail if you're local to Houston area.

OP can i get your email address? i had an off the board question for you

That's my experience too. Often times the cost of upgrading doors and hardware vs just building new is negligible.

It's not all that easy to upgrade cabinets beyond a fresh coat of paint and new pulls.

Really cool thread here. I am an aspiring home builder. I have done multifamily, mixed use, light industrial, and hotels but have also done some residential on the side. The dream for me would be custom home building.

Unfortunately I am in northeast PA. I may still be able to help? Let me ask a few questions...

How many drawers are you looking to do?
How long do you expect to stay in the house, or keep this kitchen?
How handy/patient are you?
What level of 'perfection' are you looking for?
Significant other's expectations?
Do you have more time or money?

I'm prying because knowing more info will let me devise a better strategy. Doing all the packing out and retrofitting of the existing drawer boxes is a LOT of work. I have done this and I know the nuances. For a newcomer, this may turn out to be a frustrating and time consuming affair.

Side note: like you responded, you thought it would be an easy swap, just exchange the slides with a better one. I am very partial to Blums, have used them since the late 90's. But there may be a slide out there that I am unaware of? Besides Blum, Salice, Grass, Hafele, and Sugatsune are all cabinet hardware manufacturers. There may be a drawer slide out there that may fit your application in terms of side clearance, drawer box depth, and drawer box construction?

Like AggieHM84 said, sometimes upgrading new is advantageous...no, not a whole new kitchen. Maybe? But perhaps new drawer boxes is an option? Don't know what condition your drawer boxes are in? But a new drawer box that is new and fresh, sized for your cabinet (depth and width) may be a better idea? You would still have to possibly pack out the cabinet side walls or attach a rear bracket. Then you would have to reattach the drawer front (hopefully it is separate from the old drawer box and is not integrated?) A new drawer box can cost any where from $30 to $100+ depending on size, material, finished, etc.

Let me know some more info when you can. Dave

Aggiehomebuilder84 said:

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Awesome.

Its relatively easy to explain the difference in quality between custom cabinets and store bought. What ive found hard to explain is the difference in usability.

Custom cabinets use every bit of usebale space. We've deleted entire pantry rooms through just better cabinet design. There's less fillers, less dead space.

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Stock cabinets have their place. I have installed numerous kitchens where stock cabinets were a better choice. I started my cabinet career in 100+ year old homes in NJ where no stock cabinet was going to fit the window placement, ceiling heights, people's choices, etc.

Stock cabinets have come a long way in terms of sizes available, finishes available, hardware quality. But there are still some drawbacks.
1. Cabinets coming from China, just because they are 'plywood construction', are generally awful. The formaldehyde in their glues and finishes is horrible.
2. There are some limitations with sizes, especially heights and depths. I usually customize cabinet heights to their ceiling, whatever it may be. I frequently lower uppers so shorter people can reach better. And make cabinets deeper so we can maybe fit 24" deep drawers or deeper uppers for more storage.
3. Unless someone well-versed in cabinetry lays out and orders the stock kitchen cabinets, it can turn into a nightmare as far as timing goes. Getting replacement parts can turn a 6-8 week job into a 6-8 month job. A carpenter friend took on a Lowe's kitchen to install. It took 6 months from the first cabinet set, to completion. None of it his fault.
4. Upgrades...sometimes buying stock cabinets, but getting conveniences and organizers, by the time you're done, all the upcharges can make custom cabinets pretty darn competitive.
5. Local business....I live in the area I am doing the work, you are supporting the local economy, and if there is a problem, I am there in a few days at most.

All very good points. I dont have too much experience with anything other than custom cabinetry. The homes/remodels we build dont really work with prefabbed stuff.

Sometimes we get clients wanting to do an ikea kitchen for a adu or something and the detla between those and a basic painted custom job is worth the quality difference.

I did see a new product that a shop here in town that offered a pre fabbed, flat packed, self assemble product called easy click.

Something similar to this: https://easyclick.com/

We've got a potential project that we might use them on. If I do, I'll report back.

mrmill3218 said:

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Really cool thread here. I am an aspiring home builder. I have done multifamily, mixed use, light industrial, and hotels but have also done some residential on the side. The dream for me would be custom home building.

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Go for it. You know the old joke- how do you become a millionaire homebuilder?

You start with multiple millions!


Not gonna lie- the market, at least from my seat, is looking pretty grim. It will rebound, it always has, but, the combo of covid inflation, higher interest rates, fiscal policy and exploding labor cost have definitely dampened the market and I think we're starting to see the effects.

But theres still jobs to go get. You'll have to get used to working with clients and all that entails. You dont have to say yes to all of them

Excellent idea for a thread, and timely for me with a new build (major expansion, actually) coming up next year. Interested in opinions on custom vs higher-end RTA cabinets. When we built our smaller lake house ~10 years ago, I went with Barker and got nice shaker-style cabinets in walnut that we've been very happy with. Blum hardware, all hardwood/maple plywood and no particle board at a substantial savings over comparable options from the builder at the time. Received flat packed and me and a buddy were able to install over a weekend. I did recently check the Barker website and prices have gone up substantially since I last bought so not sure if the value is still there. The scale of cabinets will be much greater on the expansion so DIY may not be a reasonable option but planning to do the trade.

I'm in!

Perhaps 2 separate threads. One for remodel and one for new build.

I have nothing to add now being retired but I financed a lot of custom builds and major remodeling projects over the years. Good stuff here.

LimestoneAg said:

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Excellent idea for a thread, and timely for me with a new build (major expansion, actually) coming up next year. Interested in opinions on custom vs higher-end RTA cabinets. When we built our smaller lake house ~10 years ago, I went with Barker and got nice shaker-style cabinets in walnut that we've been very happy with. Blum hardware, all hardwood/maple plywood and no particle board at a substantial savings over comparable options from the builder at the time. Received flat packed and me and a buddy were able to install over a weekend. I did recently check the Barker website and prices have gone up substantially since I last bought so not sure if the value is still there. The scale of cabinets will be much greater on the expansion so DIY may not be a reasonable option but planning to do the trade.

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While I only have a bit of experience assembling/installing RTA cabinets, have been in custom cabinetry since 1990. Are there any specific questions about the custom side that I can help you with?

1988PA-Aggie said:

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LimestoneAg said:

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Excellent idea for a thread, and timely for me with a new build (major expansion, actually) coming up next year. Interested in opinions on custom vs higher-end RTA cabinets. When we built our smaller lake house ~10 years ago, I went with Barker and got nice shaker-style cabinets in walnut that we've been very happy with. Blum hardware, all hardwood/maple plywood and no particle board at a substantial savings over comparable options from the builder at the time. Received flat packed and me and a buddy were able to install over a weekend. I did recently check the Barker website and prices have gone up substantially since I last bought so not sure if the value is still there. The scale of cabinets will be much greater on the expansion so DIY may not be a reasonable option but planning to do the trade.

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While I only have a bit of experience assembling/installing RTA cabinets, have been in custom cabinetry since 1990. Are there any specific questions about the custom side that I can help you with?

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Are you still in business? I have a big remodel job I am bidding on.

I'm living the nightmare of not having an attorney review our contract. It's absolutely worth it to engage an attorney. Even if you don't change anything, you'll understand the implications and consequences of things.

I'll try to generalize my question - is there an accessible network I can use to find high performance home builders in my area? Perhaps through contacting an OEM or supply house? Googling and NextDoor have not been helpful.

We are researching feasibility of a teardown/rebuild project in NE Dallas area for reference.

gratitudeandacceptance said:

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I'm living the nightmare of not having an attorney review our contract. It's absolutely worth it to engage an attorney. Even if you don't change anything, you'll understand the implications and consequences of things.

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If your working with a reputable architect, they usually have a group they work with more often. Start there.

You can peruse the hba website which will give you a long list of builders, but, it will be a lot of them.

You cam see who is in the leadership positions of the hba, or custom builders/remodelers council (cbrc), or other groups like cbusa and start there.

Construction lenders are able to vet the financial responsibility of builders. They cannot recommend builders for quality, design, etc. If you get recommendations for those find a lender they've worked with and get their feedback. That's a big part of the equation.

mrmill3218 said:

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1988PA-Aggie said:

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LimestoneAg said:

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Excellent idea for a thread, and timely for me with a new build (major expansion, actually) coming up next year. Interested in opinions on custom vs higher-end RTA cabinets. When we built our smaller lake house ~10 years ago, I went with Barker and got nice shaker-style cabinets in walnut that we've been very happy with. Blum hardware, all hardwood/maple plywood and no particle board at a substantial savings over comparable options from the builder at the time. Received flat packed and me and a buddy were able to install over a weekend. I did recently check the Barker website and prices have gone up substantially since I last bought so not sure if the value is still there. The scale of cabinets will be much greater on the expansion so DIY may not be a reasonable option but planning to do the trade.

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While I only have a bit of experience assembling/installing RTA cabinets, have been in custom cabinetry since 1990. Are there any specific questions about the custom side that I can help you with?

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Are you still in business? I have a big remodel job I am bidding on.

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I am on hold, currently working on an addition to my house, doing a lot of the work myself due to a fairly remote location. Still need another 3-4 months to finish. But my sister runs our family cabinet shop in north NJ. I am in PA, I worked there for 20 years getting it started in the 90's. You can check them out, parsonscabinetry.com. Where are you?

Things I would try to get in writing:
Max number of homes your Project Manager is managing in the construction and warranty phase
Knowledge transfer process if the PM has to change
Number of days or hours/week the PM will spend onsite in your home supervising subs

We (now I) had many long stretches of time when work was being done by subs and no one was there to oversee their work or call them out on their half-*ss bullsh*t.

I wish I'd been more diligent about references. And I'd want to talk to several customers who are at different phases of the build and warranty process.

The warranty - ours sucks. ProHome sucks. Have an attorney who knows the business review your warranty language.

Inspections - get independent inspections. We had inspections included in the contract but in hindsight I realize they weren't really independent and we never saw the results in writing. Your contract by default may say that third-party inspections' findings do not obligate the builder to address them. Don't put yourself in that situation.

Understand the interior finishes and selections process. Will they just let you run free in a design place or will they put together a plan?

Most of my problems stem from a builder who has no integrity. They do not care about quality or safety. Everything cascades from there.

I'm not anti-builder. I know there are good ones. There's a house being built around the corner from me. The builder is T.A. French. It has been the most efficient custom build process I've seen since I've moved out here (north side of Canyon Lake).

ETA: If you own a lot/land, join the Facebook group for the HOA and ask about builder feedback. Offer to have folks privately contact you (most contracts have a non-disparagement clause). You'll find who has good and bad track records in the area very quickly!

ETA#2: If you are not local to your build site, make a plan to have you or a trusted friend visit the site weekly. Sometimes we'd have a month go by before we could visit (we were in Houston and the build was in Comal County). Since we had horrible PM turnover and long stretches with no PM on site, we'd find so many mistakes every time we visited.

Aggiehomebuilder84 said:

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mrmill3218 said:

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Really cool thread here. I am an aspiring home builder. I have done multifamily, mixed use, light industrial, and hotels but have also done some residential on the side. The dream for me would be custom home building.

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Go for it. You know the old joke- how do you become a millionaire homebuilder?

You start with multiple millions!


Not gonna lie- the market, at least from my seat, is looking pretty grim. It will rebound, it always has, but, the combo of covid inflation, higher interest rates, fiscal policy and exploding labor cost have definitely dampened the market and I think we're starting to see the effects.

But theres still jobs to go get. You'll have to get used to working with clients and all that entails. You dont have to say yes to all of them

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Yeah it definitely seems like a rough time to be entering the space. Thankfully I have been able to do a few small remodel jobs and am currently bidding on one that will probably be around $400k. Just tough to get started and get your name out there.

I got a topic for us- ERVs. Im seeing more and more of this system called out for our projects.

An ERV, or Energy Recovery Ventilator, is a mechanical ventilation system designed to improve indoor air quality by constantly exchanging stale indoor air with fresh outdoor air.

They also have a heat exchanger which transfers heat and moisture between the incoming and outgoing air streams, allowing the exchange of air while conserving energy. This means the fresh air brought into the home is pre-conditioned, close to indoor temperature and humidity levels, which increases comfort and reduces the HVAC system's energy use.

In a new house, especially a custom one with spray foam, zip system, other advanced wrbs, properly sealed windows, etc- and erv is a really good tool to help regulate and mechanically replace air

I think ERVs are so cool. Would love one in my house one day.