That's classic.

Burdizzo said:

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I think by the time it comes to fruition we will have one foot out the door, so I don't care too much either. My guess is in the area between Fox Tech and the new Frost building. That area doesn't have a lot of buildings, is right next to the new San Pedro Creek trail and probably where Graham Weston wants it, near his building.

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Sounds like this is the spot saved for the Missions' new baseball stadium

$160 Million for about 7500 seats. What a bargain.


https://sanantonioreport.org/new-downtown-missions-ballpark-would-cost-160m-but-officials-say-it-pays-for-itself/

Absolutely! But the Fred's Fish Fry logo needs to be bigger. Hopefully Murf's Better Burger can be the named sponsor on the court.

GCRanger said:

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They never should have moved to the current location. The old HemisFair Arena was a great location, and even them playing in half the Alamo Dome wasn't awful. It was nice to be able to go downtown, go out to eat, go to a game, and have some entertainment afterward.

I'm all for them moving back downtown but not at tax payer expense.

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Hemisfair had to be demolished. Rumor was major structural issues with the roof and supports. That was kept amazingly quiet.

Burdizzo said:

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Burdizzo said:

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I think by the time it comes to fruition we will have one foot out the door, so I don't care too much either. My guess is in the area between Fox Tech and the new Frost building. That area doesn't have a lot of buildings, is right next to the new San Pedro Creek trail and probably where Graham Weston wants it, near his building.

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Sounds like this is the spot saved for the Missions' new baseball stadium

$160 Million for about 7500 seats. What a bargain.


https://sanantonioreport.org/new-downtown-missions-ballpark-would-cost-160m-but-officials-say-it-pays-for-itself/

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Bye bye, Soap Factory Apartments. I am guessing that will be parking for the baseball stadium, or maybe a downtown Chilis.

https://sanantonioreport.org/san-antonio-approves-baseball-stadium-plan-and-500000-relocation-package/

I don't care if the spurs get another stadium as long as I don't have to pay a dime for it.

Lived here my entire life (class of '85) and been to maybe 2-3 games total and watched another dozen or two on tv during the playoffs.

newbie11 said:

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I don't care if the spurs get another stadium as long as I don't have to pay a dime for it.

Lived here my entire life (class of '85) and been to maybe 2-3 games total and watched another dozen or two on tv during the playoffs.

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SBC/ATT/Frost Center was funded/built from an increase in taxes on things like hotels and rental cars, things that typically only impact tourists, so you can put this argument to rest.

Obi Wan Ginobili said:

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newbie11 said:

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I don't care if the spurs get another stadium as long as I don't have to pay a dime for it.

Lived here my entire life (class of '85) and been to maybe 2-3 games total and watched another dozen or two on tv during the playoffs.

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SBC/ATT/Frost Center was funded/built from an increase in taxes on things like hotels and rental cars, things that typically only impact tourists, so you can put this argument to rest.

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The bulk of the car rental tax is paid by locals. Was your car in a wreck and in the body shop? You paid the tax. Car at the dealer, and got a rental? You paid the tax.

I have never seen statistics, but my gut feeling is that far more cars get rented at the airport than around town.

That said, I think using visitor taxes to pay for a sports venue is bad policy

Having a pro sports franchise is part of what defines a modern city. SA is the 7th largest city in the US, but in many ways it's still a one horse town. If a path for a new venue for the Spurs isn't done, I can guarantee you Austin would welcome them with open arms. They just completed the Moody, and it'd be glad to have them. Major employers like having pro teams where they are headquartered. Lose the Spurs, and your city isn't taken seriously as a relocation home for big companies. Not good for your economic future.

I know there's been past efforts to get NFL and MLB expansions here, but they all failed. We couldn't/didn't support hockey or the WNBA. I tend to think an NFL team would work here, but there's not much evidence it would, and Jerry Jones would stonewall it. California has 3 NFL teams, Florida has 3 NFL teams, No reason Texas couldn't make it work.

Federal spending in SA has been a huge part of it's economic base, but it's also limited the kind of city we have/can be. We don't have the same $$$ per capita as Houston, Dallas, or Austin.

Burdizzo said:

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I have never seen statistics, but my gut feeling is that far more cars get rented at the airport than around town.

That said, I think using visitor taxes to pay for a sports venue is bad policy

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Your gut would be wrong in this instance. Enterprise alone has 32 locations in just the local San Antonio area. The replacement rental business is about 60% of all rental days, and it's bigger when the economy slows down. The suits n shorts airport market for rentals is fickle. Every single day people wreck their cars, and their cars break down/need maintenance. This is how Enterprise Rent-a Car became the largest rental car company in the world. They passed Hertz in 1995. I used to work for them. In 2002, Enterprise bought 6% of ALL domestic auto production. I'm sure it's more now. They are the single biggest customer of General Motors. Bigger than the federal government, and it's not close.

I managed a branch on San Pedro near North Park Lincoln that had 300 cars. There was another at 281/Brook Hollow with about 200. The one by Culebra and 410 had over 300. There are other big ones too. When I left there in 2003, they had close to 7,000 cars in South Texas. They're probably over 10,000 now.

BTW, most people think the airport market is much bigger, so you're not alone. Everything changed in 1974 when Congress passed a law that said if you have an accident, your insurance company MUST provide reasonable transportation while repairs are being made. Back then, Hertz said "$20/day rentals? Screw that! We can't make money like that!" Jack Taylor, the guy who started Enterprise said "Oh yeah? Hold my beer", and the rest is history. Hertz has been trying to catch up because they realized too late they made a mistake.

Thanks for the short course on rental cars. That was informative.

Back to the stadium. I am one of those grumpy old taxpayers that thinks stadiums shouldn't require taxpayer involvement, but if a pro sports team is the status symbol we want, then I guess that is our our goal

You hit on something that might be my biggest complaint about San Antonio. My problem with that is the poor economic foundation that this town is built on. Our two biggest economies are tourism and dependence on government spending. We don't make anything here. We don't generate technology (unless it is something at SWRI and probably government funded) . We just pamper tourists, depend government entitlement payments, and milk the endless rotation of military families.

We think we need a pro sports team?

rwtxag83 said:

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Burdizzo said:

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I have never seen statistics, but my gut feeling is that far more cars get rented at the airport than around town.

That said, I think using visitor taxes to pay for a sports venue is bad policy

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Your gut would be wrong in this instance. Enterprise alone has 32 locations in just the local San Antonio area. The replacement rental business is about 60% of all rental days, and it's bigger when the economy slows down. The suits n shorts airport market for rentals is fickle. Every single day people wreck their cars, and their cars break down/need maintenance. This is how Enterprise Rent-a Car became the largest rental car company in the world. They passed Hertz in 1995. I used to work for them. In 2002, Enterprise bought 6% of ALL domestic auto production. I'm sure it's more now. They are the single biggest customer of General Motors. Bigger than the federal government, and it's not close.

I managed a branch on San Pedro near North Park Lincoln that had 300 cars. There was another at 281/Brook Hollow with about 200. The one by Culebra and 410 had over 300. There are other big ones too. When I left there in 2003, they had close to 7,000 cars in South Texas. They're probably over 10,000 now.

BTW, most people think the airport market is much bigger, so you're not alone. Everything changed in 1974 when Congress passed a law that said if you have an accident, your insurance company MUST provide reasonable transportation while repairs are being made. Back then, Hertz said "$20/day rentals? Screw that! We can't make money like that!" Jack Taylor, the guy who started Enterprise said "Oh yeah? Hold my beer", and the rest is history. Hertz has been trying to catch up because they realized too late they made a mistake.

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Alright, so assuming this is accurate, we have something to go off of now.

The "60%" of all renal days are replacement rentals" is the relevant piece. So nearly half of the rental cars are being rented by tourists? Is that what I can imply the other 40 is?

So anyone who thinks we shouldn't pay for a stadium with tax money is annoyed about an increase in taxes on rental cars and hotel rooms, which we have now established those increased taxes are almost half funded by people who don't even live here. The other tax is mostly funded by people who don't live here.


I swear I'm not trying to argue, I want to understand the other side of this discussion, why are people against taxing tourists to pay for luxury, non-essential type things that we have proven provide value to the city??

Burdizzo said:

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Thanks for the short course on rental cars. That was informative.

Back to the stadium. I am one of those grumpy old taxpayers that thinks stadiums shouldn't require taxpayer involvement, but if a pro sports team is the status symbol we want, then I guess that is our our goal

You hit on something that might be my biggest complaint about San Antonio. My problem with that is the poor economic foundation that this town is built on. Our two biggest economies are tourism and dependence on government spending. We don't make anything here. We don't generate technology (unless it is something at SWRI and probably government funded) . We just pamper tourists, depend government entitlement payments, and milk the endless rotation of military families.

We think we need a pro sports team?

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What?