Historically I am pretty sure that Green Taps were only for CO's, MUC's, DCC and Corps Commander. Right? It was to signify Key Leaders. Now it is a trophy that you hand out at a little league game.

Now with the new COC G. Ram, all classes will have green tabs.
Sophomores that are Assistant Squad Leaders, Juniors that are 1st SGTS, SGTMJR, Platoon SGTS, and Squad Leaders.
Seniors that are CO, XO, MUC, or Platoon or Flight Officers.




Source:
https://cadets.tamu.edu/Lists/Announcements/Attachments/2109/Corps%20Leadership%20Dev%20-%20Spring%202013.pdf

What are the gray tabs I see?

And I'm amazed at the proliferation of cords and ribbons since my day. Beginning to look like a convention of Mexican Generals.

I may be off here, but I think a ways back green tabs were used to distinguish between leadership/command and staff. My dad was in the TXNG in the 60s. He got out as an E-5 squad leader, and wore green tabs on his bravos.

The powerpoint seems to follow the same line of thinking. It distinguishes between a C/Cpl who is "responsible for another cadet's development and actions" and a C/Cpl who works in the athletics chain.

Greutzmachers -- Goin' commando!

Just bringing the Corps in line with the Army uniform. Personnel in troop leading positions wear green tabs., even though the Army doesn't really wear them anymore. Command issues are referred to as green tab issues.
I just hope that those wearing the green tabs are held to a higher standard.

FIFY:

cadets.tamu.edu/Lists/Announcements/Attachments/2109/Corps%20Leadership%20Dev%20-%20Spring%202013.pdf

Green tabs are for CO's whether that is at the outfit level, major unit level, corps commander, etc. Grey tabs are for CO's of special units, i.e.- RV's, FDT, etc.

[This message has been edited by rebel06 (edited 4/8/2013 8:53a).]

thanks

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And I'm amazed at the proliferation of cords and ribbons since my day. Beginning to look like a convention of Mexican Generals.

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This.

It's ridiculous how much crap cadets have on their uniform. When I look back at pictures of me as a PH, it makes me laugh. I had more medals and cords than I will earn probably during my career in the military.

All those cords you see everyone wearing will be limited next year. It got out of control. Next year only the only cords will be RV, Parsons, FDT, Outfits that earned flags for the unit awards and a few others I can't think of.

Also many of the medals you see cadets wearing are "pull outs". The only medals that are approved for one to wear are those that are "earned"/ given to you as an award. Now days cadets go over to wherever they buy uniform parts and they buy all these pointless medals.

Sounds like it's reverting to how it was "back in the day", as far as cords.

Most of the guys I know only wore their real ribbons/medals almost all of the time. But sometimes they would pull out stuff, create ribbons for things like "most formations missed" and other silliness. I know some of we BQs would occasionally stick on a hanging medal from high school band UIL competition, just to freak people out.

Was great for things like fish day.

I had one from the Enid Music Festival that was maroon/white/maroon with a triangle shaped hanging part. Got lots of strange looks, which was the whole point.

Also regarding cords, when I mentioned rolled vs. unrolled cords to my class of '09 son, he had no clue what I meant. It appears to me that no one rolls cords anymore.

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Now with the new COC G. Ram, all classes will have green tabs.
Sophomores that are Assistant Squad Leaders, Juniors that are 1st SGTS, SGTMJR, Platoon SGTS, and Squad Leaders.
Seniors that are CO, XO, MUC, or Platoon or Flight

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These don't line up with the PowerPoint you linked.

Where does it say that the XO gets green tabs?

Hint: the XO doesn't get green tabs

On the power point, I notice they will be trying to equalize unit strengths.

What's the deal with fish being Asst. Team Leaders (pg. 7 of the Power Point)? Sounds like Ramirez is trying to micromanage too much.

I think that is 2nd semester when they start transitioning into a leader. Having no rank and wearing AMUs did suck. ha. Then again fish year just sucked.

One day, my fish all fell out for inspection. I was inspecting them against the wall when I noticed one of them's brand new marksmanship medal all the fish had just earned. The device under the medal read, "Laser."

I immediately went looking for his old lady, who was always his partner in crime. Sure enough, "Bazooka." Of course we took their devices, gently and politely corrected them, and then went to the pisshead room to laugh our butts off.

The next day, they fall out again. This time, "Missile" and "Harpoon."

Hey zaggie,
Green tabs are worn by all troop leaders in the Army...from team leader on up. I know the Corps is not the Army, but we are trying to get away from the upper level leaders micromanaging down to the lowest levels. We want team leaders to take charge and TAKE OWNERSHIP of their fish. Putting green tabs on team leader's shoulders will be of great significance. It identifies that this person IS a leader. So, instead of using your very first TexAgs post to rant and make analogies of little league trophies being handed out to everyone, please come by my office and we can discuss the postives and negatives of this new rule. Hooah...1SG Cassle...3rd BDE CTO.

haha 1SG laying it out on you! 1SG is allsomeee! Goodbull!

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Hey zaggie,
Green tabs are worn by all troop leaders in the Army...from team leader on up. I know the Corps is not the Army, but we are trying to get away from the upper level leaders micromanaging down to the lowest levels. We want team leaders to take charge and TAKE OWNERSHIP of their fish. Putting green tabs on team leader's shoulders will be of great significance. It identifies that this person IS a leader. So, instead of using your very first TexAgs post to rant and make analogies of little league trophies being handed out to everyone, please come by my office and we can discuss the postives and negatives of this new rule. Hooah...1SG Cassle...3rd BDE CTO.

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Troops in the open, coax, fire and adjust!

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but we are trying to get away from the upper level leaders micromanaging down to the lowest levels. We want team leaders to take charge and TAKE OWNERSHIP of their fish. Putting green tabs on team leader's shoulders will be of great significance.

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Please don't try to tell us green tabs is a potential solution to stopping upper level leadership from micromanaging.

If that's the case, the Corps has big problems.

Hillcountry, if I am understanding right, the green tab is a way for a CTO to identify a person who is in a leadership position. Thus meaning a CTO or anyone at the top should be able to walk up to a soph. with a green tab and ask him where all his people are that he is directly accountable for. This takes all the weight off the C/Os trying to scramble and find out where all 60 of there men are. In the military you don't see the Commanding officer running around taking accountability. He ask for the report from those at a lower level, in this case green tabs, and it in turn makes them take ownership of their people.

Just a thought, I could be wrong.

"A man will fight long and hard for little bits of colored ribbon"

"Ability is of little account without opportunity"

Both said by Napoleon

The more junior leaders are engaged, the less need for senior leaders to micromanage, and the less those junior leaders will allow themselves to be micromanaged.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"

Changing the micromanaging culture from the top never worked while I was in the Corps, so why not try a different course of action?

Worth the try, and junior NCOs in the Army always seem to take pride in their green-tabs

I absolutely hated giving up my green tabs when I went from a platoon leader in the Army to a staff weenie!

All,
Some great input here. Hillcountry...micromanaging will always be prevalent in the Corps and we know it. It is the "taking ownership" piece that we are pushing hard. We also feel that this will have another desired effect and that is of better communication flow from the top down. We still have too many events/taskings that do not reach the lowest levels until the absolute last minute. One clear example...just yesterday at 1730 hours, I asked a soph if he knew the football team was eating with the Corps that evening. He said no...I was not surprised.

This is great for the Corps' leadership development program. So many times throughout the Corps it comes to the C/O and 1SG of the outfit to be solely responsible and keep accountability of all of the outfit. While it is their job to know what is going on, many times sophomores and juniors have no clue what is going on with their subordinates, and thus develop apathy. The movement of the Corps more to the platoon system is a win win for every person involved. It takes stress off the C/O 1SG, it gives more of a purpose to the sophomores who are TLs the Juniors that are SLs and the Seniors that are PLs, and it gives freshman a greater pool to ask questions and actually get lead by rather than just going to the C/O and 1SG. The platoon structure will also help in the leadership development. If information is not received by a fish or a pisshead you can trace it back to who dropped the ball on communication. If that person has an issue with communicating down to their team that can be identified and worked on. Even with all the ability for instant communication in the Corps (cell phones email facebook groups) it is still a barrier that needs to get solved. If fish Jones in 1st Team Alpha Squad 2nd Platoon does not know that their is a dinner with the football team you can trace to see where the breakdown was so it can be corrected in the future.


The green tab identifier just helps identify the leader. This helps at all levels freshman-senior all the way up to the Commandant, his staff, and even the University staff. Again as Aggie 509th mentioned earlier this is no different than what is being done in the Army.

[This message has been edited by VaAg12 (edited 4/9/2013 2:25p).]

I knew who all the platoon commanders/squad leaders/etc in my outfit were. I didn't a dumb tab to tell me

Basic leadership doctrine for the Army teaches that a single person can only manage 3 to 5 people. This generally presents itself through out our military structure. A team leader has three troops in his team. A squad leader has 3 teams in his squad. A platoon leader has 3 to 4 squads in his platoon. A company commander has 3 to 4 platoons in his company. And on and on up the chain of command. There are a few exceptions but for the most part it hold true.

I like the idea of getting lower level leaders involved heavily in leadership and day to day management. Put the green tabs on them and hold them to a higher standard.

texrex, it is for people like CTO's outside the outfit to identify those people.

If it takes green tabs to help the cadets recognize that there will be a newly enforced system of accountability at all levels (as it already exists in the military), then why not? I'm sold.

If this works as envisioned - creat more accountability and develop lower leadership - then that's great. But I don't see how this is going to do that. If the idea is that outsiders can identify outfit leaders, how often are outfits training in B's or midnights when this would be relevant? If it's to make underclassmen in leadership positions take on more of a leadership role and be more accountable for their people, how does it change anything? What would be the difference between green tabs and just telling them they've got a greater role to play in leadership? Internally, surely fish know who their sophomore squad leader is, or their platoon sergeant. If not, how does adding green tabs make them more recognizable?

I know when I was in the Corps no one read the oporders that corps staff put out. Pretty sure most commanders didn't even read it. That's how you ended up having entire outfits show up to march-ins wearing the wrong cover with their midnights. So if this works, that'd be awesome. Maybe it can be incorporated into GM, be asked varioius questions about the upcoming week's march-in oporder, see who actually read it.

Just saw the presentation. Depending on how it's implemented, I don't like the idea of "standardizing outfit size." How does it take into account attrition among all classes? If an outfit retains all its fish, will they be transplanted to other units? And I remember outfits who didn't do crap for recruiting all year long, but on FOW sunday they would walk around, meet incoming fish in Duncan field and before entering Duncan for checkin and poach them from other outfits. Now these outfits are just going to be given 20 fish from the start?

I like this new idea of leadership, especially how everyone is going to need a leadership position in the Corps. I remember before these changes where if you weren't the CO, XO, 1SGT, or gunny then you pretty much didn't do any real leading and were pushed aside. I saw this and went out into the Corps to find my own leadership position and got one where I actually do work for it. The Corps has hasn't been focusing on the leadership aspect and it's good to see it finally being addressed. Gone are the days were cadets just lived in the outfits and didn't have any true leadership positions.

I was amazed when I saw midnights on fish and piss heads. Let's just give white belts to all etc. make everyone a WINNER.

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I was amazed when I saw midnights on fish and piss heads. Let's just give white belts to all etc. make everyone a WINNER.

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That was a cost cutting measure from a previous COC who didn't want to spend the money to replace all of the Class A uniform blouses, something our current COC changed as soon as he took over. Now whether or not midnights revert back to a white belt privelege is another matter all together.

[This message has been edited by DevilD77 (edited 4/10/2013 11:55a).]

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But I don't see how this is going to do that. If the idea is that outsiders can identify outfit leaders, how often are outfits training in B's or midnights when this would be relevant? If it's to make underclassmen in leadership positions take on more of a leadership role and be more accountable for their people, how does it change anything? What would be the difference between green tabs and just telling them they've got a greater role to play in leadership? Internally, surely fish know who their sophomore squad leader is, or their platoon sergeant. If not, how does adding green tabs make them more recognizable?

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From what I hear there is a big problem with cadets not showing up to formation/ different required events.. It is always the CO & 1st Sgt. trying to track down where everyone is. Now there is a green tab to let outsiders know who has a role so they can walk up to them on the quad and say hey where are your guys. Why is XXXXX not a formation, instead of the CO & 1st Sgt. always trying to find everyone. The outfits have always had platoon systems, however not very many outfits have actually followed it.