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Any of you guys know that A&M has a large Air Force contingent ?

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Yep, and half the AF pilot slots each year go to USAFA. All the ROTCs, guard units, etc. get to fight over the other half.

You have mentioned that before...not sure why. The selling point A&M AF used to have was that a higher percentage of folks in the program got pilot slots than at the AF Academy.

Same with Army Aviation...the distribution of slots were amongst the country's ROTCs. Given our higher propensity to perform better at Advanced Camp and being a Senior Service College gave us an upper leg come as accessions time.


I'm sure I'm missing something, but just what I saw from the cheap seats working at the Trigon.

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The selling point A&M AF used to have was that a higher percentage of folks in the program got pilot slots than at the AF Academy.

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It's about 50% at USAFA. If Aggieland does better than that, good for them.

[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 6/14/2013 8:05a).]

Slight topic hijack...would any of you support sending the top 10% of ARMY graduate pilots (per flight class) to USAF or USN flight schools to develop a high performance airframe expertise for the Land Force? Just curious.

Isn't that the whole point of the air force?

The Air Force is interested in "Strategic Thinking", I meant more HP CAS for grunts.

AC-130
A-10

problem solved.

Not too bad gator, I'd hoped for another platform in addition to the A-10. Suggestions.

A-29 Super Tucano

You can pull the wings off and transport via C-17. Requires 2x crew and 2x MX. Already proven in S America. IF we add our technology and expertise it'll be an expeditionary game changer.

Project cancelled, restarted, cancelled, etc...

The A-29 has potential in the current conflicts abroad. As you say with US technology the A-29 could be developed into something to be proud of.

The A-29 made sense if we had started production a decade ago. We didn't, and the war it was made for is coming to an end, at least for us.

"could be developed..." but you're right GAC, it won't be.

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The A-29 Super Tucano stands alone as the only combat-proven, mission ready and operational contender in the U.S. Air Force Light Air Support competition.

What differentiates the Super T from the competition:

A clean sheet design – built from the ground up for the counterinsurgency and light air support mission

A production aircraft – more than 170 have been built and delivered

Operational today performing ISR and security missions around the globe

In use with military in nine nations

More than 180,000 flight hours logged, including 28,000 combat hours; no combat losses

Highest weapons load in its class

Certified for more than 130 munitions configurations

Features open-architecture avionics

Fully integrated FLIR thermal imaging system

Two internal wing-mounted .50 caliber machine guns

Longer airframe and larger rudder enable superior performance with high-torque 1,600 HP engine

Provides significant room for growth

Able to routinely take off and land on rugged terrain

Proven low operating costs – 84 percent fleet availability; 99 percent fleet mission effectiveness

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[This message has been edited by terata (edited 6/15/2013 10:32a).]

[This message has been edited by terata (edited 6/15/2013 10:32a).]

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The A-29 made sense if we had started production a decade ago. We didn't, and the war it was made for is coming to an end, at least for us.

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The war it was made for is just beginning.

I was talking about us buying them for our military to fly, not the Afghans.

We're talking about the same thing. We just have different understandings of our Global Pursuit strategy.

The interests in A&M putting pilots in the forces led me to ask y'all if you'd like to play a little game here on this link - Gator, GAC, Canyon, mameluke, et.al.

(1.) You are the primary planner for an operation/expedition in a foreign country.

(2.) As always you have a limited budget, but are able to shape your Combat Force as you think it best suits the mission of "winning."
You are free to select the air, ground and sea and submarine components you want, within your limited budget.

(3.) The AO has extremely varied terrain and weather patterns, from a long coast, a broad and expansive littoral, leading to thick almost impenetrable tropical vegetation , to marshes and swamps then into thick savannahs with triple canopies to sheer cliffs and very rugged mountainous topography. Temperature ranges are 115 to - 20 degrees, coastal plain to mountains.

(4.) The natives are seemingly placid, but their social behavior when under strees and the intro of a large foreign presence supposedly acting in their behalf is largely unknown. They apparently have no standing army, nor any effective militias.

(5.) An invasion by a belligerent nation that has extensive combat experience in (a)jungle warfare, (b) mountain warfare (c) MOUT and(d) guerilla warfare and is a highly adaptable force has subdued the country, sapped their morale, and economically dominates the population.

(6.) Win the war - within the constraints of the Law of War.

1) You forgot to mention that this country has oil reserves.

2) The American populace can't stomach what it would take to win this war. It would end up being another mess like our current campaign.

3) if they have no standing army, why would we go? We would just end up occupying another useless area with a puppet govt/economy/military ala S Korea.

Can I just nuke it?

(7.) the country has extensive areas believed to hold huge oil reserves, as yet unproven. A geological report indicates the country may be a potential windfall for the following strategic resources: Lithium, Vanadium, Rare Earth elements, Potash, Uranium, Tungsten, Germanium et.al.

(8.) The country was once a thriving nation, but has fallen on some bleak times. The nations nominal ruler would love to better relations with the US but is being constrained by an aggressor country bent of exploiting the areas resources.

(9.) The standing army has been intimidated by the more powerful country and is ineffective, but might be made to stiffen with the proper implementation of American "diplomacy."

Groundwork starts now, get picked up by a commissioning source. Probably a better shot at getting a slot out of the academy but if he's got what it takes to be a BAMF the corps is doable. As was alluded to earlier, when I walked in the room on day 1 200 hands shot up in the air of who wanted to fly, not sure of the final numbers but maybe 20-30 actually got slots. Keep the nose clean and the grades high, strive to get leadership positions and standout from the crowd. Unfortunately it's a gamble with medical as I was almost DQ'd for depth perception but as a wise man once told me, "there are waivers for everything." Be prepared if he's dead set on the Air Force, it's a 10 year commitment from graduation of pilot training (I'm an 06 grad with a commitment until 2019). Fighter pilots are a dying breed and the chances are better of getting a UAV or Mobility airframe. If he is willing to take the plunge and go for it regardless of the potential drawbacks he'll be fine.

Oh and coming from an Active duty type I'll go ahead and save you years of stress, find some guys who fly for the guard and talk to them about getting a slot. Quality of life is eleventy billion times better...

[This message has been edited by Boggsie84 (edited 6/17/2013 10:18p).]

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Fighter pilots are a dying breed

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Wait...what? For the original poster, if your son can get an ROTC contract then the biggest thing he can do is have a stellar GPA. Flight aptitude tests are not difficult and you can prep in a day. GPA is what they mostly base selection on at least on the Navy's side. So work hard in college and work harder in flight school if you want jets. If you go the Navy route you shouldn't have to worry about UAVs but who knows how things could change. I love the Super Hornet, I love carrier aviation and I couldn't recommend more the Fly Navy route. Good luck to you and your son.

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Wait...what?

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http://brentterwilliger.blogspot.com/2012/11/tour-of-usaf-academy.html

Reference the 2nd & 3rd picture. I can't speak for the navy guys but morale is dropping because of the cuts to fighter squadrons. Sequestration is making it worse grounding a quarter or so of the ACC fleet. My community (mobility) is having to fill fighter staff billets because of their lack of qualified individuals. Sad, but true.

I was a -135 select with the 18ARS in February. After 4.5 years of applying and finally being selected in the AFRC, here's my advice for a HS kid:

1. Start flying lessons now.
2. Try to go academy.
3. If not the academy, ROTC.
4. If not the academy or ROTC, in college do the following:

A) Find a unit(s) you're interested in and reach out to them and visit them ASAP. If its nearby and a fighter unit, enlisting is not a bad option if possible. Many ANG/AFRC units only hire from within.

B) Get your PPL, and instrument rating of possible, and north of 80 hours.

C) Call/visit those units you're interested in some more. Sit there and be curious and polite, but know when to back off, leave, or in general shut up. Also, if your going OTS/AFRC, get in touch with a recruiter, you'll have to. And do as much work yourself as possible, as they're very busy but will go out of their way for serious candidates.

D) Keep a high GPA (3.5+ and you won't regret it! I had to fight with a 2.97 and it made life tough...)

E) Find ways to be a leader on campus.

F) Cultivate/utilize (genuine) relationships with individuals who can provide you solid letters of recommendation. Find at least 5-7 of them, and military pilots are great sources. Consider your audience.

G) Be ready to knock an interview out of the park.

This will help tremendously when applying ANG, AFRC, or to OTS.

It worked for me. Unfortunately, I had to make the hardest decision of my life (for many personal reasons) to forgo my selection (it still hurts to think about...I've never felt more like a fool for doing what was ultimately best for my family at this stage in the game), but I wish nothing but the best for your son as he pursues an incredible journey.

Feel free to PM me. I have resumes, LORs, cover letters, interview questions, etc. galore from the dozens of applications I sent in that I'd be happy to share and help.

[This message has been edited by FHUAggie (edited 6/21/2013 5:43p).]

Or just go Marine ground.

Well played

Much easier to go marine ground.

[This message has been edited by Gator2_01 (edited 6/22/2013 9:58a).]

Sorry FHU, no stars. I'll certainly take your advice, he's in Jr High now, I've already been in contact with the local ALO. I'm looking forward to some local events to meet in person.

I have pretty recent experience with the USAF pilot selection and training, so here's my .02 (USAF wise at least).

Statistically speaking, the USAF Academy is the 'easiest' way to get a slot for pilot training. I think around 500-600 guys/gals per year get a slot, and that is roughly 50% of a graduating class at that institution. However, getting into the USAF Academy is tough (I couldn't make it work for me!).

ROTC is a great way to get a pilot's slot, but it isn't as easy to snag one. They give out 500-600 slots a year across the country, but I think my year (2010) they commissioned 2000-3000 officers from ROTC. So, statistically speaking, it's harder than the Academy. However, it is pretty easy to be in the top 1/3rd of ROTC cadets if you put in the effort to make good grades, have descent social skills and can pass a PT test.

As far as the Air Force is concerned, PT isn't as big of a deal as it would be for the Army or Marines. You need to pass the test, and it would do a person well to score a 90 or above, but it's only 10% of your score. The Air Force isn't concerned about an engineering major vs. a liberal arts major (I do think the Navy is, but feel free to call me out on that one if it isn't true). I was Industrial Distribution at A&M, and got a slot over dudes/dudettes that were Aerospace Engineering. It's all about your GPA in the end.

Although prior flight time isn't required, In my opinion as an instructor, it helps. Most students wash out during the flight screening phase, or the first 12-15 rides in primary training, and prior civilian time helps the skill sets learned in those flights.

Hope this helps. If you need any more info, let me know and I'll send you me email address.

Never mind Brewskis, I searched for some of our previous conversations. Our FAIP daughter is currently at Fairchild, doing SERE. We told her 'better now than February".

[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 6/30/2013 10:20a).]

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1. Start flying lessons now.
2. Try to go academy.
3. If not the academy, ROTC.
4. If not the academy or ROTC, in college do the following:

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I had a grand total of 2 flight hours before starting flight school, and I ended up doing just fine in primary and got selected for jets. Don't worry about getting your PPL unless you actually WANT to do it, and you have 6-8k extra in your bank account.

If I had a dime for every flight student with prior flight time that I saw attrite out of flight school...

texrex,

Same with out daughter. She had maybe 5 hours riding in small planes and about 30 minutes at the controls. Also got a few hours dual in sailplanes at USAFA. Not to mention some struggles with airsickness. Still ended up tracking T-38.

She heard stories of CFIIs (civilian flight instructors) washing out of the initial screening at Pueblo. They could fly, but not fly the Air Force way.

In contrast, some Aggie friends have a son who is a corporate pilot, went OCS and guard, and got ENJJPT and a slot in an F-16 guard unit.

Bottom line, neither zero experience or 1000 hours of experience is a guarantee nor a disqualifier.


[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 6/30/2013 3:57p).]

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Bottom line, neither zero experience or 1000 hours of experience is a guarantee nor a disqualifier.

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Exactly right. Also, if you get your PPL prior to joining the military, you won't be eligible to go though IFS (at least in the Navy/MC). Why pay for something when you can have the military pay for it?

Looking at my license I got a commercial ticket with single/multi land, & Instrument ratings and qual on a Be-400 & Mu-300 for about 150 bucks the day after I graduated UPT. Thanks Uncle Sam for covering the other ~60 grand worth of training...

That 60 grand is just a WAG of what it would cost to get those ratings and types via civ means.

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I had a grand total of 2 flight hours before starting flight school, and I ended up doing just fine in primary and got selected for jets. Don't worry about getting your PPL unless you actually WANT to do it, and you have 6-8k extra in your bank account.

If I had a dime for every flight student with prior flight time that I saw attrite out of flight school...

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What year did you hit UPT? With all due respect, each individual that's told me this that I know was still in UPT when Tweets were still flying. I was told 14 times (12 ANG/AFRC units), and each one of them told me my lack of flight hours (and PPL) were extremely detrimental to my chance for an interview, much less selection.

All three airlift units at Travis AFB wouldn't even interview me without me a PPL. The 18 ARS I was selected by in Wichita was under the condition I'd have my PPL completed (and they also wanted my instrument rating done as well...I told them that wouldn't happen) by the December AFRC board.

If you're going Academy/ROTC, you may not need any flying experience.

If you're going OTS, it will definitely help as it's more competitive than ever applying to OTS; I applied to two different active duty boards, both with 20% selection rates (that was for CSO, ABM, and pilot) with 450-550 applicants.

And if you're going ANG (and especially AFRC), if you don't have at minimum a PPL, you are essentially non-selectable to the majority of units across the nation. This is speaking from personal experience, and a recruiter as recently as February saying he won't even reach out to other units for me until I had my PPL as they're telling him that applicants must have a PPL to be worth being considered. If a unit is getting 50+ (or 100+, like the (now) F-15 unit in Fresno), they'll have cut-offs at things like (at minimum) a PPL, a 90+ PCSM, a 90+ AFOQT pilot score, etc. One of the good fellows of the 47th FS (I still hate that they got the axe...great, great group of guys) filled me in a similar process they have when selecting interviewees.

Some (ANG/AFRC) units only hire from within, won't hire you unless they know you well, (that was the case with NHANG. A good friend of mine that fly -135's and KC-10's called to put in a good word for me and, though they'd welcome me to apply, without them knowing me, it just wasn't going to happen), and if you don't have a local unit around you, it's difficult (and expensive) to work up the rapport with units in your region, must less across the nation, to confirm you're a "good bro" and they could live with you for 20+ years.

Flight hours (and eventually a PPL) will do two things:

1) You'll figure out if you really like flying. Granted, military flying is vastly different than the 55 MPH turnouts at takeoffs in a -172, but I think it's worth getting in the air to confirm your passion.

2) It will, undoubtedly, make you more competitive if you go ANG or AFRC.

While I no doubt question your experience as a pilot and as an officer in this country, I'm simply speaking from very recent experience, 4.5 years of running the gauntlet to eventual selection.

[This message has been edited by FHUAggie (edited 7/1/2013 12:35a).]

To be honest with you, I'm not sure the OP was asking about non active duty options. You are giving your experience which is not indicative of active duty military aviation selection. I had to google what AFRC even meant. However, it seems to be non active duty pilot selection in the air force is much more restrictive on their applicants than any other segment of military aviation when it comes to PPL.

In my experience in Naval Aviation, degree does not matter for selection. Just GPA...I was poli sci to fly. When you get to flight school flight experience can be a hindrance or a help depending on who you are. There are horror stories from both sides. Bottom line, if you have an outstanding work ethic and some kind of innate talent you will get jets.

Degree can help you in follow on paths such as Test Pilot School or trying to be an astronaut if that type thing is something you're interested in.

[This message has been edited by StorminAg (edited 7/1/2013 12:59a).]