AF Air Combat Command CC Gen Mike Hostage recently visited Tinker AFB and met with the troops in an “All Call”.

http://journalrecord.com/tinkertakeoff/2014/06/26/acc-commander-discusses-promotion-changes-budget-impacts-with-tinker-airmen/

As reported in the Tinker AFB Takeoff (the base newspaper), he covered many topics. But this one caught my eye:

quote:

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On the officer side, promotion consideration will factor in a variety of constraints, such as family obligations, which could prevent officers below the rank of colonel from pursuing graduate degrees. It was for that reason the Air Force recently announced advanced degrees would be masked from officer promotion boards until the O-6 board.
“We’re not going to penalize a person who was too busy to get a master’s degree,” he said, though noting the Air Force continues to value higher education.

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I am curious as to what current (or recently separated/retired) AF folks think about this new policy. And also curious about how important advanced degrees are for promotion in the other services.

Disclaimer: I got my MS degree through the Air Force Institute of Technology – in other words that was my “duty assignment” for 18 months of my career, paid for by the AF of course. I have numerous friends in my career field who had two AFIT assignments - MS and PHD. I retired in Oct 1991.

My first reaction is that this is a good move overall and will eliminate one of the “square filling” factors in becoming competitive for promotion. I was fortunate to be selected for an AFIT MS program in a technical field, but I had many friends who had to get their MS on their own time (and sometimes at some expense back in my day). And oftentimes, they had to settle for majoring in subjects that were far from their first choice and/or not very useful once they retired.

A couple of other thoughts:

Will advanced degrees obtained through AFIT or at the Navy equivalent at Monterey be “masked” from the promotion boards? My training report from AFIT is part of my official AF records.

How about a few other “square filling” (IMO) factors such as SOS, ACSC, and AWC by correspondence? (These are AF "professional development" courses.) Given the concern for “family obligations” will these be masked in your records as well?

Just curious to hear what current members think.


[This message has been edited by NormanAg (edited 6/30/2014 6:39p).]

I retired in 1990. I spent most of my career "working" on a masters but between frequent PCS moves and high intensity assignments I was never able to cobble together a MS. Not having one bit me. I did have SOS in residence, distinguished graduate, ACSC and Air War College by seminar and correspondence, both done on remote assignments. Three top-block OERs under the short-lived controlled OER system. Post-controlled OERs all had 2- and 3-star endorsements. Drafted to go to the Air Staff, and three months after reporting I was passed over for O-5.

I think it's a good move - job performance that demonstrates potential to perform at the next level should be the primary determinant.

The Marine Corps and the Air Force really are at polar opposites in the way that they view advanced degrees. A graduate degree means nearly nothing to a Marine Corps promotion board until O-6 and even then it's not that important. I recently heard a Colonel (former MEU commander) who was finishing up a fellowship at the CFR (not a place where they send a dumb or inarticulate officer) talk about the disparity between the educational backgrounds of himself and his three counterparts from the other services. He said that the Air Force Colonel and the Navy Captain had PhDs in physics and mathematics. He and his Army counterpart did not have a Masters degree between them but both had a wealth of time in command in the combat arms from the company through the regimental level which they figured was essentially a PhD in killing.

Within the Marine Corps, graduate degrees in technical fields obtained through assignment to NPS or AFIT are a credential that is something that one survives rather than an enhancement to chance of promotion. It's not because having a degree is a negative but the 24 months spent away from the fleet for school followed by a 36 month utilization tour outside the operating forces is a five year period out of one's MOS. Despite any assertions from leadership to the contrary, the statistics from the promotion boards for selectees and non-selects make it very clear that resident graduate education is a distraction and diversion from the track that leads to promotion to LtCol and Colonel and recently even to Major.

That's my opinion based on my experience and observation of a decade of officers with technical graduate degrees in my field. I'm glad I went to NPS and pleasantly surprised to still be in uniform a decade after graduating but for Leathernecks considering going there I would say beware, there be dragons along the career path that passes through Monterey beautiful though it may be.

Two excellent responses. I totally understand what JR69 posted and the points Ulysses made about the difference between the AF and Marines vis a vis advanced degrees were enlightening and informative.

Hopefully the AF will make this change and not look back.



[This message has been edited by NormanAg (edited 6/30/2014 9:21p).]

I should have been a Marine - my attitude didn't fit the Air Force of the time - my job always came first. Never was really a square filler, although I did do three levels of PME. Believe it or not, I actually learned some good stuff in Command & Staff and War College.

FWIW I was never bitter like some officers I knew. I chose my own career path and didn't necessarily follow the "prescribed" career ladder - I jumped at the chance for variety in my assignments and served in three different career fields. I believe I had the respect of all I served with and I've never looked back since the day I saw the Pentagon in the rear view mirror.



[This message has been edited by JR69 (edited 6/30/2014 11:07p).]

So Canyon Zoomie '11 is dealing with this right now. Hubby just got a good MS online, relevant to his field (engineering) and from a good school (Well, U of Arkansas, anyway)

Now it's her turn. Still putting in long days and weekends as an IP. Conflicted between a good MS relevant to her interests from a good university....or a bullcrap easy degree to fill the checkbox.

Her attitude/mindset is slanted toward #1, but she's awfully busy.

I talked to her tonight to get her take. Was a short talk (for other reasons) but she mentioned how USAF goes back and forth on this. Some years it is "you have to have the degree" some years it's "no degree needed".

Pity the poor guy at the board who accepted the 'no degree required' conventional wisdom, only to be up for promotion right after the pendulum swung back to 'degree required'. Some folks have allegedly been caught in this trap.

Funding goes the same way. AF helped with husbands degree, but with sequester, they may not help with hers. Timing is everything.

My feeling is that she will go for the MS, so as not to be left out in the cold.



[This message has been edited by CanyonAg77 (edited 6/30/2014 11:53p).]

During my day an advanced degree was definitely not only a square filler but an advantage starting with the initial selection boards - and then typically at the Major (0-4) selection point! Especially if it enhanced the career field!
Not only that, but when OER's were written it showed motivation and interest and was often used as a nudge for better support - especially if saved for an "additional endorser" to discuss.
With the advent of "on line degrees" there may be some disagreements at MPC about relevance and quality?? versus on campus - daily in the chair - PCS to obtain same???
A Master's just to get a master's to fill the block may or may not be rewarded by the selection committee. Getting one to enhance one's career field has always been a positive factor.

The impression I get from daughter is that to pass captain, a masters was required. Didn't matter if it were astrophysics from A&M or underwater basket weaving from Shady Online College.

Perhaps this lack of meaning is what lead to withdrawing it as a requirement.

Exactly. That was also true even back in the 80's. It became just another square you had to fill, just like SOS, ACSC, and AWC by correspondence/seminar. Lot's of corners were cut on those courses.

When I sat on promotion boards seven and eight years ago they were coaching us to look at the individual's Op-tempo and if a guy was in the fight continuously, that a lack of a masters and PME should not be held against them as they legitimately did not have time. It seems the AF is late on this as we begin to head back into a peacetime military. It makes more sense as a square filler in peacetime because it at least shows some gumption to get the degree. Unfortunately you won't know the quality of that degree, which ought to be factored in.

[This message has been edited by BQ78 (edited 7/2/2014 12:39p).]

Doesn't AF CGSC come with a Masters?

Not during my tour - retired in 1991.

Was AD USAF '89-'09 and I think they implemented this briefly when I was in.

At least there was some serious discussion about it.

General Larry Welch was USAF Chief of Staff 1986 - 1990. He was of the opinion that there was a time and place for PME and advanced degrees, but he stressed to the rated force that their job as a Captain or Major was to be the best pilot, navigator, or WSO, etc etc, that you could be and that job was way more important than Marine Corps Staff College by correspondence or an MBA from Golden Gate Univ. For at least a short period of time, the block filling frenzy seemed to slow down for the AF.

Unfortunately, after Welch retired, and Gen Dugan lasted something like 2 months as COS until getting canned by Cheney, we were left with Merrill McPeak.

Some of the guys that bought in to the "forget about filling the squares" policy got bit in the ass, especially since the AF was downsizing.

I'd caution anyone in today's AF (who plans on staying) that any masking policy can change overnight.

During the force shaping rounds that started around '06 or so, advanced degrees were supposedly going to be masked for the selection boards. I was upset because I was pursuing a masters at the time. It was eventually decided to not mask advanced degrees after all...although it didn't help me, as I had finished my masters before the board for my year group met and I was cut anyway.

What? An advanced degree should be a consideration. And the board should neither ignore it nor give it more weight than deserved. Don't they know how to weigh all factors? It somehow advanced degrees do not enhance performance and potential, then what's the point?

quote:

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He and his Army counterpart did not have a Masters degree between them but both had a wealth of time in command in the combat arms from the company through the regimental level which they figured was essentially a PhD in killing.

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While I agree with the PhD in killing, I'd also argue an O-6 in the combat arms roles of the USA or USMC has also earned masters in logistics, sociology (minus the stats or research if reqd), physical education and human resources.

I would assume they would excel in ANY role where that Master's was required.

[This message has been edited by Say chowdah (edited 7/6/2014 6:06p).]

Very well said!

More education never hurts !

No question. First priority is the PhD in killing. I sat on plenty of promotion boards, and combat performance, combat skill, and leadership were the preeminent criteria.

That said, my advice is to sacrifice the personal time (within reason) to earn a quality advanced degree that will be useful while on AD and after military service is complete. While "ticking the box" with a crap M.A. might get you by some point when on active duty, it’s worthless in the private sector. On the other hand, after a transition to industry a quality officer with a good M.S., such as Systems Engineering or Operations Analysis, should command a salary solidly in the six figures. Of course, I’m also assuming good leadership skills . . . often absent in the civilian work force.

FLY, Yes. Air CGSC requires the completion of a simultaneous masters program.

In my opinion more education is always better. Can't imagine why it wouldn't be. Guys who only have "PhD's in killing" often struggle at the strategic level as they lack a broad perspective and appreciation for integrating their M into the DIME.

Frankly, our military has struggled of late due to a lack of personnel who appreciate this level of thought. There is no doubt that we need our tactical level killers but somebody has to know how to string those efforts together at the operational and strategic level with the other branches of government and comprehend the effects on the operational evironment as it relates to the overall strategy. We have some GOs who get it but often times their staffs are of little assistance.

[This message has been edited by Cavgrunt97 (edited 7/13/2014 10:08a).]

I'm in the Navy and I just got my Masters. Of course I had to wait 5 years after college to do it while on shore duty. There was no way I could have done it on sea duty.