Who says we are in no man's land?
Buzz Postgame Locker Room Speech…
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84 Replies |
Last: 1 yr ago by Iraq2xVeteran
Like four insane people.
But you don't have any names? Presumably what you're really saying is that you want to go back in time 6 years and hire Nate Oats?
If we did this and got left by said 'young and hungry' coach for a real basketball school all the people on this forum that currently want Buzz gone would screaming that we are an embarrassment and not a serious program because we let our coach get poached again.
Here's the list of power programs hiring "young" head coaches (under 50 is what I'm gonna use for this) starting 6 seasons ago through 2 years ago. Would you really want to throw darts and pick one of these at random (Especially once you throw out the ones that don't belong because, though young, they were already established head coaches (Buzz, Cronin, Smart, Beard etc)?
Nate Oats
Buzz Williams
Juwon Howard
Mick Cronin
Jerry Stackhouse
Kyle Smith
Micah Shrewsbury (x2)
Tommy Lloyd
Earl Grant
TJ Otzelberger
Shaka Smart
Ben Johnson
Hubert Davis
Chris Beard (x2)
Jon Scheyer
Todd Golden
Mike White
Craig Smith
Kevin Willard
Chris Jans
Dennis Gates
Kyle Neptune
Mark Madsen
Mike Rhoades
Grant McCasland
Nate Oats
Buzz Williams
Juwon Howard
Mick Cronin
Jerry Stackhouse
Kyle Smith
Micah Shrewsbury (x2)
Tommy Lloyd
Earl Grant
TJ Otzelberger
Shaka Smart
Ben Johnson
Hubert Davis
Chris Beard (x2)
Jon Scheyer
Todd Golden
Mike White
Craig Smith
Kevin Willard
Chris Jans
Dennis Gates
Kyle Neptune
Mark Madsen
Mike Rhoades
Grant McCasland
Even further trimming this list, Scheyer was on staff with K with at least some inkling he could be the heir, Otzelberger had strong Iowa State ties and people would throw a fit if we hired a coach that went 12-15 at UNLV and Tommy Lloyd had turned down plenty of jobs over the years to stay at Gonzaga until the right thing came along.
Take those names off along with the already established guys you mentioned and the hit rate becomes even worse. Plus, how many of those remaining would you even describe as "young and hungry with real offensive strategy."
Take those names off along with the already established guys you mentioned and the hit rate becomes even worse. Plus, how many of those remaining would you even describe as "young and hungry with real offensive strategy."
jc1402 said:
Lol. I watch the games. Would rather see tweets about our upcoming sweet 16 matchup rather than a prayer session. Lucky Buzz had a camera crew there to capture this moment.
Just so this dude isn't the only one catching heat, the people who starred his post must be pretty miserable people as well, but only they know who they are. Crappy representation of Aggie fans and completely lacking in emotional maturity.
Yeah you're gonna be praying to hit McCasland or like Golden I guess, and then like if not those then "please please please at least Chris Jans!?"
Just goes to show you, if you're a "young" coach, try to get hired by like Duke, Arizona, UCLA...this is the type of information that just has to get out there.Topher17 said:
Even further trimming this list, Scheyer was on staff with K with at least some inkling he could be the heir, Otzelberger had strong Iowa State ties and people would throw a fit if we hired a coach that went 12-15 at UNLV and Tommy Lloyd had turned down plenty of jobs over the years to stay at Gonzaga until the right thing came along.
Take those names off along with the already established guys you mentioned and the hit rate becomes even worse. Plus, how many of those remaining would you even describe as "young and hungry with real offensive strategy."
"Ha! Just wait til they get going!"
Original quote is "til I get going" but bonus points for whoever knows the movie. Your post reminded me of it for some reason
Original quote is "til I get going" but bonus points for whoever knows the movie. Your post reminded me of it for some reason
This dude might be the most miserable guy on this board and that's saying something.jc1402 said:
You keep going, so I will too. I did that because someone in that thread literally said "combine the Covid years" so when you do… it's not pretty.
I fear for their mental health.
Find a coach who can win more than 2 tournament games in 6 years. Duh.JJxvi said:
Sweet. So what's the plan once we get rid of Buzz?
You find them.
Are we acting like this is hard to find? Are you serious? Some of the posts defending buzz have gotten insane.
We certainly found them with our last 3 hires (4, counting buzz), so yea I'm confident if we hired a new coach they'd win at least 2 tourney games in 6 years. And that includes Billy Kennedy, who everyone likes to say was a terrible coach. I don't even disagree with them, and even he was able to do more than 2 tourney wins. I'd be pissed if we hired anyone and that's all they did. You can literally throw a rock and find a coach who can give you those results at a program like ours.
I'm not even saying we have to fire buzz. But your shtick of telling posters to "find someone" who can win 2 tourney games in 6 years makes it seem like that would be very tough to do and that we should just stick with buzz bc we may not get someone who can win two tourney games in 6 years.
We certainly found them with our last 3 hires (4, counting buzz), so yea I'm confident if we hired a new coach they'd win at least 2 tourney games in 6 years. And that includes Billy Kennedy, who everyone likes to say was a terrible coach. I don't even disagree with them, and even he was able to do more than 2 tourney wins. I'd be pissed if we hired anyone and that's all they did. You can literally throw a rock and find a coach who can give you those results at a program like ours.
I'm not even saying we have to fire buzz. But your shtick of telling posters to "find someone" who can win 2 tourney games in 6 years makes it seem like that would be very tough to do and that we should just stick with buzz bc we may not get someone who can win two tourney games in 6 years.
lol which wins in the last four years qualify as "our biggest wins"? Beating Auburn right after they clinched the SEC title in a clear let down game for them? What else?JJxvi said:jc1402 said:
Why is it ridiculous? I, as a fan, care more about our team winning games than their spiritual development from their head coach. He isn't a preacher, he's a basketball coach. I want him to win basketball games.
My suggestion is actually watch ALL the games and you'll see wins. Many of our biggest wins ever have come in the last 4 years.
That
Is a wonderful human being.
Is a wonderful human being.
Will pray for all the internet tough guys on this board.
WN AG said:
Will pray for all the internet tough guys on this board.
"I pray that Ag Dad 26"
That's gotta sound odd
Why **** on every thread?
bobinator said:Lol, this is the kind of ridiculous stuff that I refuse to believe anyone actually thinks.jc1402 said:
Cool. Happy for the players. I'd rather have a coach that wins at a higher level. I do believe this is genuine from Buzz, but if it wasn't for this stuff he'd have been fired by now.
At absolutely no point has Buzz been in any danger of being fired.
Yep
Guy has 3 straight tournament appearances (should be 4) at a school that now only has 17 appearances in it's entire history and doesn't support the sport at a high level
Cherry picking stats a bit here.NyAggie said:bobinator said:Lol, this is the kind of ridiculous stuff that I refuse to believe anyone actually thinks.jc1402 said:
Cool. Happy for the players. I'd rather have a coach that wins at a higher level. I do believe this is genuine from Buzz, but if it wasn't for this stuff he'd have been fired by now.
At absolutely no point has Buzz been in any danger of being fired.
Yep
Guy has 3 straight tournament appearances (should be 4) at a school that now only has 17 appearances in it's entire history and doesn't support the sport at a high level
17 times in its entier history yes but 11 of those are in the past 20 years.
Welcome to the China Club
"Here's the pitch...POPPED it up! Oh man, that wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth."
-Harry Carey
"Here's the pitch...POPPED it up! Oh man, that wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth."
-Harry Carey
gunan01 said:
lol which wins in the last four years qualify as "our biggest wins"? Beating Auburn right after they clinched the SEC title in a clear let down game for them? What else?
Here is a comprehensive list of all the times we've beaten a top 25 rated team according to Torvik with the highest ranked wins sorted to the top. Wins coming in the last 4 seasons are in bold. Torvik only goes back to 2008, so I also cobbled together 2005-2007 from kenpom but that's harder to do if you're not subscribed, but I'm pretty certain I got them all.
So 40% of our biggest wins in the last 21 seasons, including 4 of the top 5, have come in the past 4 years. Hope you didn't miss it.
03/4/23-Alabama
03/04/25-Auburn
03/01/06-Texas
11/26/23-Iowa State
02/21/23-Tennessee
02/20/16-Kentucky
02/03/07-Kansas
03/07/09-Missouri
12/08/24-Texas Tech
02/10/24-Tennessee
01/11/14-Tennessee
02/22/14-Tennessee
02/06/10-Baylor
11/10/17-West Virginia
01/30/08-Texas
03/18/18-North Carolina
11/26/15-Gonzaga
03/11/22-Auburn
01/26/19-Kansas State
12/14/24-Purdue
11/21/17-Penn State
03/05/16-Vanderbilt
11/26/09-Clemson
12/11/10-Washington
02/08/25-Missouri
02/15/23-Arkansas
03/10/23-Arkansas
03/17/07-Louisville
02/10/18-Kentucky
01/30/16-Iowa State
03/19/09-BYU
03/14/08-Kansas State
01/25/23-Auburn
02/07/23-Auburn
01/08/22-Arkansas
03/12/22-Arkansas
01/22/11-Kansas State
02/03/10-Missouri
02/03/24-Florida
02/27/10-Texas
02/16/09-Texas
03/19/10-Utah State
01/22/25-Ole Miss
11/29/09-Minnesota
02/05/07-Texas
03/22/24-Nebraska
02/14/15-Florida
Charlie Murphy said:Cherry picking stats a bit here.NyAggie said:bobinator said:Lol, this is the kind of ridiculous stuff that I refuse to believe anyone actually thinks.jc1402 said:
Cool. Happy for the players. I'd rather have a coach that wins at a higher level. I do believe this is genuine from Buzz, but if it wasn't for this stuff he'd have been fired by now.
At absolutely no point has Buzz been in any danger of being fired.
Yep
Guy has 3 straight tournament appearances (should be 4) at a school that now only has 17 appearances in it's entire history and doesn't support the sport at a high level
17 times in its entier history yes but 11 of those are in the past 20 years.
Doesn't change the fact that we don't have a good basketball history. We've also never advanced past the seeet 16.
If people want buzz gone they are entitled to their opinions, but careful what they wish for as we can very easily go back to pre BCG days, especially in a league as tough as the sec
With buzz you know he can make it work with less than ideal pieces so the floor is much higher
Thank you for sharing that video. That is some high class, high character stuff from Buzz! Seeing things like this makes a person feel better about the world.
The chances of abject failure moving on from a reasonably successful coach are pretty good. Not that I believe anyone in power over this program really wants to move on from Buzz.
My view is he may break through at some point and have a program best season. I have every reason to think Buzz self critiques and looks for ways to make the program more successful . I think the chances of getting that breakthrough season and turning it into sustained next level program success are better sticking with Buzz vs rolling the dice with some alleged up and comer.
My view is he may break through at some point and have a program best season. I have every reason to think Buzz self critiques and looks for ways to make the program more successful . I think the chances of getting that breakthrough season and turning it into sustained next level program success are better sticking with Buzz vs rolling the dice with some alleged up and comer.
I'd have to disagree with the premise. What you did 40 years ago shouldnt affect how you view your program going forward. Especially if youve proved the last 20 years that you can compete at a certain level.NyAggie said:Charlie Murphy said:Cherry picking stats a bit here.NyAggie said:bobinator said:Lol, this is the kind of ridiculous stuff that I refuse to believe anyone actually thinks.jc1402 said:
Cool. Happy for the players. I'd rather have a coach that wins at a higher level. I do believe this is genuine from Buzz, but if it wasn't for this stuff he'd have been fired by now.
At absolutely no point has Buzz been in any danger of being fired.
Yep
Guy has 3 straight tournament appearances (should be 4) at a school that now only has 17 appearances in it's entire history and doesn't support the sport at a high level
17 times in its entier history yes but 11 of those are in the past 20 years.
Doesn't change the fact that we don't have a good basketball history. We've also never advanced past the seeet 16.
If people want buzz gone they are entitled to their opinions, but careful what they wish for as we can very easily go back to pre BCG days, especially in a league as tough as the sec
With buzz you know he can make it work with less than ideal pieces so the floor is much higher
On the less than ideal pieces, its year 6 with a senior filled roster. If he doesnt have the ideal pieces this year, at what point will he have them?
Welcome to the China Club
"Here's the pitch...POPPED it up! Oh man, that wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth."
-Harry Carey
"Here's the pitch...POPPED it up! Oh man, that wouldn't be a home run in a phone booth."
-Harry Carey
NyAggie said:Charlie Murphy said:Cherry picking stats a bit here.NyAggie said:bobinator said:Lol, this is the kind of ridiculous stuff that I refuse to believe anyone actually thinks.jc1402 said:
Cool. Happy for the players. I'd rather have a coach that wins at a higher level. I do believe this is genuine from Buzz, but if it wasn't for this stuff he'd have been fired by now.
At absolutely no point has Buzz been in any danger of being fired.
Yep
Guy has 3 straight tournament appearances (should be 4) at a school that now only has 17 appearances in it's entire history and doesn't support the sport at a high level
17 times in its entier history yes but 11 of those are in the past 20 years.
Doesn't change the fact that we don't have a good basketball history. We've also never advanced past the seeet 16.
If people want buzz gone they are entitled to their opinions, but careful what they wish for as we can very easily go back to pre BCG days, especially in a league as tough as the sec
With buzz you know he can make it work with less than ideal pieces so the floor is much higher
I don't know why so many people keep using this as a talking piece. BCG coached here during 2004-07. The aggie basketball program has been performing at a respectful level since 2004-07
Why hold on to what happened before then? That was the SWC and Big 12.
We havent had a terrible coach, or a "dumpster fire" basketball program in a long time. It's time to move on and to raise the standards.
If Buzz is the 2nd greatest Aggie basketball coach since BCG then it's obvious A&M is fully capable of hiring someone as good if not better than he is.
You really don't know when or if he will ever have them, but you also don't know that with anyone else leading the program either. So to me the question is are the chances better with Buzz or some unnamed up and comer . Jmo, the answer right now is the chances are better with Buzz. If we see an obvious downward trend over several years then that answer may change. I say several years because next year could be rough but it also could be a positive surprise building toward something bigger.
Just block him. That is what I did. He/She is obviously a troll.JJxvi said:You honestly sound like a crazy person. You should do what you suggest and unplug. Jace called us all racists? This board slurps Buzz? GTFO.jc1402 said:
I post when I see outrageous sh*t... You can look through my comment history. The times i've posted most on this board were when someone started a threat that "Buzz has Arrived" after we beat Texas the first time (lol how that turned out) and then this weekend when Jace Carter called us all racists... I'm just sick of Buzz's sht and don't understand how most people aren't. This board will continue to slurp him for the performative Bible thumping and not winning.
I do believe Buzz has reached his ceiling, and he's just not good enough of a game manager to advance further than S16, absent an absolutely loaded roster. He had a good roster, with uber experience and zero major conflicts, and he could do no better than a 9point win over an average team.
He's a good man and a good coach, who can produce good teams. If that is enough for the powers that be, so be it. I for one would rather keep trying for greatness, the way the 'sips are doing without Barnes. One of these times, they'll hit, and we'll be asking the same ol' question, "why not us?"
He's a good man and a good coach, who can produce good teams. If that is enough for the powers that be, so be it. I for one would rather keep trying for greatness, the way the 'sips are doing without Barnes. One of these times, they'll hit, and we'll be asking the same ol' question, "why not us?"
JJxvi said:gunan01 said:
lol which wins in the last four years qualify as "our biggest wins"? Beating Auburn right after they clinched the SEC title in a clear let down game for them? What else?
Here is a comprehensive list of all the times we've beaten a top 25 rated team according to Torvik with the highest ranked wins sorted to the top. Wins coming in the last 4 seasons are in bold. Torvik only goes back to 2008, so I also cobbled together 2005-2007 from kenpom but that's harder to do if you're not subscribed, but I'm pretty certain I got them all.
So 40% of our biggest wins in the last 21 seasons, including 4 of the top 5, have come in the past 4 years. Hope you didn't miss it.
03/4/23-Alabama
03/04/25-Auburn
03/01/06-Texas
11/26/23-Iowa State
02/21/23-Tennessee
02/20/16-Kentucky
02/03/07-Kansas
03/07/09-Missouri
12/08/24-Texas Tech
02/10/24-Tennessee
01/11/14-Tennessee
02/22/14-Tennessee
02/06/10-Baylor
11/10/17-West Virginia
01/30/08-Texas
03/18/18-North Carolina
11/26/15-Gonzaga
03/11/22-Auburn
01/26/19-Kansas State
12/14/24-Purdue
11/21/17-Penn State
03/05/16-Vanderbilt
11/26/09-Clemson
12/11/10-Washington
02/08/25-Missouri
02/15/23-Arkansas
03/10/23-Arkansas
03/17/07-Louisville
02/10/18-Kentucky
01/30/16-Iowa State
03/19/09-BYU
03/14/08-Kansas State
01/25/23-Auburn
02/07/23-Auburn
01/08/22-Arkansas
03/12/22-Arkansas
01/22/11-Kansas State
02/03/10-Missouri
02/03/24-Florida
02/27/10-Texas
02/16/09-Texas
03/19/10-Utah State
01/22/25-Ole Miss
11/29/09-Minnesota
02/05/07-Texas
03/22/24-Nebraska
02/14/15-Florida
I'm not looking for a guy with great empathy for his players.
I'm looking for a guy with great empathy for his players AND can win.
VALUE is what we are not getting.
He's getting paid to win a LOT of games and perform well in the tourney.
That doesn't mean he has to win a natty every few years.
But it does mean 2 wins in 6 seasons with consistent under performance is not the result you should accept based on the money he's paid.
This forum is loaded with people who think we are running a spiritual camp that happens to convene on a basketball court and that close counts.
If you want to settle for that 2 wins in the dance in 6 seasons, with a team that is undisciplined in shot selection and is burdened with poor coaching/time management in the final minutes of close games and a repetitive history of late season implosions and will pay him top tier dollars for years of that performance, then you have your guy.
I'm looking for a guy with great empathy for his players AND can win.
VALUE is what we are not getting.
He's getting paid to win a LOT of games and perform well in the tourney.
That doesn't mean he has to win a natty every few years.
But it does mean 2 wins in 6 seasons with consistent under performance is not the result you should accept based on the money he's paid.
This forum is loaded with people who think we are running a spiritual camp that happens to convene on a basketball court and that close counts.
If you want to settle for that 2 wins in the dance in 6 seasons, with a team that is undisciplined in shot selection and is burdened with poor coaching/time management in the final minutes of close games and a repetitive history of late season implosions and will pay him top tier dollars for years of that performance, then you have your guy.
9-5 this year in games decided by 7 points or less. A lot of things you can cry about when complaining about Buzz but late game management isn't one.
Quote:
JJxvi
Here is a comprehensive list of all the times we've beaten a top 25 rated team according to Torvik with the highest ranked wins sorted to the top. Wins coming in the last 4 seasons are in bold. ....
Wow! That's a powerful post, and I'm one that would favor a change of coach.
No doubt Buzz has us in a position where we've
never been: able to challenge the best teams consistently. Is that enough, and will it ever go beyond?
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