To not lose any of 100+ patients admitted with ILI (covid19) is pretty great. No way fewer than 30 of those were/are elderly, and something like half probably have some other conditions.DTP02 said:
For those who missed it, interview with oncologist from well-known hospital in Manhattan, Lenox Hill, regarding hydroxychloroquine:
Bullet points:
- his hospital is currently prescribing hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin. He has spoken to colleagues at other NY metro hospitals and says they are doing the same.
- Isn't overly concerned about FDA approval or CDC recommendation. He's on the frontlines at ground zero and is going with what they think works.
- his hospital has roughly 100 patients with infection . (my assumption is this means 100 patients who have been admitted, not just tested and sent home. Fits with his other comments.)
- his hospital has not lost a patient. (My editorializing: if they've had 100 admitted patients for any significant length of time, and they're all on this protocol and haven't lost one, that's meaningful support for its efficacy. Hope they are going to pass along their documentation for analysis)
- fair to say that he shares optimism that this drug could be a game-changer. Discusses potential for prophylactic or early stage use which could get the country back to some normalcy
Hydroxychloroquine...........
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In my honest opinion, the jury is out on the bioavailability of Quercetin even with bromelain but in vitro its shows a dramatic increase in bioavailability but that does not always correlate in vivo.
One of the studies I included in a previous post showed a cocktail of Quercetin, DHA (Omega-3 FA), isoquercetin, and a compound in green tea named EGCG was provided to the test subjects which drastically increases the bioavailability of the product.
There are studies (see previous posts) also that Quercetin Phytosome increases bioavailability versus that of Quercetin alone.
Once again, just my opinion based upon the research
One of the studies I included in a previous post showed a cocktail of Quercetin, DHA (Omega-3 FA), isoquercetin, and a compound in green tea named EGCG was provided to the test subjects which drastically increases the bioavailability of the product.
There are studies (see previous posts) also that Quercetin Phytosome increases bioavailability versus that of Quercetin alone.
Once again, just my opinion based upon the research
Doc Reveille is sold on it, too. See page 29 in the Q&A pinned up top.nortex97 said:To not lose any of 100+ patients admitted with ILI (covid19) is pretty great. No way fewer than 30 of those were/are elderly, and something like half probably have some other conditions.DTP02 said:
For those who missed it, interview with oncologist from well-known hospital in Manhattan, Lenox Hill, regarding hydroxychloroquine:
Bullet points:
- his hospital is currently prescribing hydroxychloroquine with or without azithromycin. He has spoken to colleagues at other NY metro hospitals and says they are doing the same.
- Isn't overly concerned about FDA approval or CDC recommendation. He's on the frontlines at ground zero and is going with what they think works.
- his hospital has roughly 100 patients with infection . (my assumption is this means 100 patients who have been admitted, not just tested and sent home. Fits with his other comments.)
- his hospital has not lost a patient. (My editorializing: if they've had 100 admitted patients for any significant length of time, and they're all on this protocol and haven't lost one, that's meaningful support for its efficacy. Hope they are going to pass along their documentation for analysis)
- fair to say that he shares optimism that this drug could be a game-changer. Discusses potential for prophylactic or early stage use which could get the country back to some normalcy
Lord, why are people looking for political boogey men everywhere?DTP02 said:
Not sure that a political hit piece about 3 people in Nigeria overdosing on a drug without doctor's supervision really belongs on this thread or in this forum.
My post, was about the dangers of uninformed people misusing the medication. That could happen here.
The fact that someone didn't listen closely to what Trump said isn't a Trump problem. It's a listener problem.
This one actually says phytosome. 4 headed to the house.Aston04 said:Giving it a shot too.Player To Be Named Later said:
I ordered this brand.... is the bio availability of this brand likely to be even worth taking?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OSQ5I/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_FalEEbYZWPG87
Found some zinc as well, that was tough.
https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02302/bio-quercetin
Totally agree, but this is also a textbook example of what people are talking about with anecdotal cases.Sq 17 said:
granted the actor is probably not high risk group but if he got better quickly, that is good news
Let's decide whether or not this works with studies and controlled environments (which looks promising).
Any chance they open up the RCT data to real-time dissemination and peer review? I know in certain lines of work when something is deadline critical and needs to be assessed independently it's not uncommon to have that assessment taking place in real-time as the project progresses.Moxley said:
With the time it takes to plan, implement, and publish RCTs we likely won't be seeing a lot of RCT data on this for a while, and that is for the studies already underway. To get a more clear picture we would need to synthesize the data from many RCTs together. This sort of meta-analysis (when done well) is considered a gold standard in clinical research. We don't really have the luxury of time to do all of that.
What we can be doing much sooner is publishing data in similar fashion the French report. While not being the gold standard, these smaller studies (when done en masse) can be synthesized to provide quite a bit of evidence. I'm hopeful hospitals that implemented this protocol will be able to soon publish some data on its effectiveness. It's nice to see the doctors going on Fox to say that it's working well and celebrities tweeting about how quickly they got over it using hydroxychloroquine, but the hard numbers need to be out there.
The key figures we need to watch are not only mortality, but length of hospital stay and need for ICU/vents. If multiple studies from around the country show this protocol can limit the strain on hospitals, we may be able to get back to business as a country much sooner. I would suspect there will be no major decisions made on this without several RCTs. Fauci isn't going to recommend a let up until those finish.
Likely through use of an independent Data Safety Monitoring Board and using controlled adaptive design procedures. You can't just start making changes to an RCT as data come in or you will confound all the results. Procedures for that sort of thing have to be designed prospectively and are almost certainly in place.
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Tempted to order this as well. 29mg seems like a very low number? The brand I already have on the way is 800mg per dosage.Reginald Cousins said:This one actually says phytosome. 4 headed to the house.Aston04 said:Giving it a shot too.Player To Be Named Later said:
I ordered this brand.... is the bio availability of this brand likely to be even worth taking?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OSQ5I/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_FalEEbYZWPG87
Found some zinc as well, that was tough.
https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02302/bio-quercetin
29 mg seems to be low to me as well. I was about to order, but then noticed the low dosage. That's the thing with nutraceuticals though. There are no real studies that show what dose could be efficacious.Player To Be Named Later said:Tempted to order this as well. 29mg seems like a very low number? The brand I already have on the way is 800mg per dosage.Reginald Cousins said:This one actually says phytosome. 4 headed to the house.Aston04 said:Giving it a shot too.Player To Be Named Later said:
I ordered this brand.... is the bio availability of this brand likely to be even worth taking?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OSQ5I/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_FalEEbYZWPG87
Found some zinc as well, that was tough.
https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02302/bio-quercetin
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I went ahead and ordered it. I already ordered that 800mg dosed product. I'll just add in some of this with the other, and hopefully I'll get SOME quercitin into my system.
And I'll take it with some green tea.
And I'll take it with some green tea.
29mg seems very low to me as well. Most papers I have read on the clinical research had the patients taking a minimum dosage of 500mg 1-2 times and some taking 1000 mg once.
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Yes, I think Reveille stated he takes 1000mg per day for the time being. I guess I'll take my 800mg brand and throw some of this in to get to 1000mg. I bought a 120 day supply of the 29mg dosed brand, so I can double up on it and still last awhile.Palovic said:
29mg seems very low to me as well. Most papers I have read on the clinical research had the patients taking a minimum dosage of 500mg 1-2 times and some taking 1000 mg once.
All of this may be stupidly over kill, but since I'm out on patrol for the PD, and more exposed than I care to be, I'm leaning towards over kill dose.... doesn't sound like it can harm you really.
May be low, but with the super low bioavailability of non phytosome, makes sense this would be less... read in the thread somewhere this was 50x more bioavailable. So, who knows? As long as it gets the zinc in I'm happy.Player To Be Named Later said:Tempted to order this as well. 29mg seems like a very low number? The brand I already have on the way is 800mg per dosage.Reginald Cousins said:This one actually says phytosome. 4 headed to the house.Aston04 said:Giving it a shot too.Player To Be Named Later said:
I ordered this brand.... is the bio availability of this brand likely to be even worth taking?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0013OSQ5I/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_FalEEbYZWPG87
Found some zinc as well, that was tough.
https://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item02302/bio-quercetin
This would be a question for one of the docs on here, particularly Reveille since he's taking quercetin currently.Player To Be Named Later said:Yes, I think Reveille stated he takes 1000mg per day for the time being. I guess I'll take my 800mg brand and throw some of this in to get to 1000mg. I bought a 120 day supply of the 29mg dosed brand, so I can double up on it and still last awhile.Palovic said:
29mg seems very low to me as well. Most papers I have read on the clinical research had the patients taking a minimum dosage of 500mg 1-2 times and some taking 1000 mg once.
All of this may be stupidly over kill, but since I'm out on patrol for the PD, and more exposed than I care to be, I'm leaning towards over kill dose.... doesn't sound like it can harm you really.
Do you think that coadministration with an oleaginous liquid such as olive oil or Vitamin E could increase the bioavailability of natural quercetin? (not the quercetin phytosome)
Aggie Pharmer-from one of my previous post, there was a clinical trail conducted on cyclist where they were administered the following:
"250 mg of quercetin, 250 mg of vitamin C, 10 mg of niacinamide, and 200 mg of folic acid. These nutrients were included in the Q-chew to facilitate quercetin absorption in the small intestine (personal communication; Quercegen Pharma). Each QEGCG chew contained all Q-chew ingredients with 30 mg of EGCG from green tea extract, 100 mg of isoquercetin, and 100 mg of N3PUFA (55 mg of EPA and 45 mg DHA) from fish oil. These food components were included to improve quercetin bioavailability and extend its bioactive effects"
I would definitely like to hear Reveille's thoughts.
"250 mg of quercetin, 250 mg of vitamin C, 10 mg of niacinamide, and 200 mg of folic acid. These nutrients were included in the Q-chew to facilitate quercetin absorption in the small intestine (personal communication; Quercegen Pharma). Each QEGCG chew contained all Q-chew ingredients with 30 mg of EGCG from green tea extract, 100 mg of isoquercetin, and 100 mg of N3PUFA (55 mg of EPA and 45 mg DHA) from fish oil. These food components were included to improve quercetin bioavailability and extend its bioactive effects"
I would definitely like to hear Reveille's thoughts.
Might want to edit this amount.Quote:
200 Kg of folic acid
oops. Nice catch. 200 mg
But its 50x lower bioavailable than the phytosome, so it would be like taking ~1500mg? I don't know if that's how it works, but...Palovic said:
29mg seems very low to me as well. Most papers I have read on the clinical research had the patients taking a minimum dosage of 500mg 1-2 times and some taking 1000 mg once.
Good point Reginald. I have never taken either so I feel we will be learning together on this as well as getting some guidance from individuals like Reveille who have been utilizing this product. Anything we can do to increase zinc absorption is the key.
95% risk it.
i'm not sure i understand the implied risk
While I'm not saying that's necessarily wildly inaccurate or that I even disagree with the majority, Liz Wheeler is an OANN personality that very much has a particular group of like-minded folks following her.
I'm sure the results are skewed vs the general public, at least a little.
I'm sure the results are skewed vs the general public, at least a little.
Yes, in today's politcal arena, conservatives would risk it in hopes that it works, and liberals would not in hopes it would extend the crisis and sink Donald Trump. That's the skew you are referring to.TXAggie2011 said:
While I'm not saying that's necessarily wildly inaccurate or that I even disagree with the majority, Liz Wheeler is an OANN personality and has a particular group of folks following her. I'm sure the results are skewed vs the general public, at least a little.
Are you saying there are people that would rather die than see Donald Trump elected and that they will be voting democrat in the next election regardless?barnyard1996 said:Yes, in today's politcal arena, conservatives would risk it in hopes that it works, and liberals would not in hopes it would extend the crisis and sink Donald Trump. That's the skew you are referring to.TXAggie2011 said:
While I'm not saying that's necessarily wildly inaccurate or that I even disagree with the majority, Liz Wheeler is an OANN personality and has a particular group of folks following her. I'm sure the results are skewed vs the general public, at least a little.
This is skewed in its own way and not how I would describe Liz Wheeler's motivations but I'm not getting into it any further on this board or any other board.barnyard1996 said:Yes, in today's politcal arena, conservatives would risk it in hopes that it works, and liberals would not in hopes it would extend the crisis and sink Donald Trump. That's the skew you are referring to.TXAggie2011 said:
While I'm not saying that's necessarily wildly inaccurate or that I even disagree with the majority, Liz Wheeler is an OANN personality and has a particular group of folks following her. I'm sure the results are skewed vs the general public, at least a little.
Micro-grams
The copy and paste translation had some issues with the micro sign.
The copy and paste translation had some issues with the micro sign.
No problem. I have been reading it along with a number of other studies throughout the day when not working
http://quercetinscience.com/2009-Nieman-Effects%20of%20Quercetin-EGCG-MSSE.pdf
http://quercetinscience.com/2009-Nieman-Effects%20of%20Quercetin-EGCG-MSSE.pdf
yea im gonna deny something that could maybe help save my life to take down donald trump. Do you people hear yourselves?barnyard1996 said:Yes, in today's politcal arena, conservatives would risk it in hopes that it works, and liberals would not in hopes it would extend the crisis and sink Donald Trump. That's the skew you are referring to.TXAggie2011 said:
While I'm not saying that's necessarily wildly inaccurate or that I even disagree with the majority, Liz Wheeler is an OANN personality and has a particular group of folks following her. I'm sure the results are skewed vs the general public, at least a little.
Anybody have success getting some Zinc care to share where you might see it available?
Are the Calcium-Magnesium-Zinc combos ok? I hate to start adding to much new stuff
Are the Calcium-Magnesium-Zinc combos ok? I hate to start adding to much new stuff
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