Dallas County - extended stay-at-home order

11,677 Views | 121 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Comanche_Ag
SirLurksALot
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 1:33p, 4/3/20
Player To Be Named Later said:
Why does everyone always just gloss over the fact that the economy will also tank if we open everything up and cases/death sky rocket?

People seem to be under the assumption that people would go out to eat, out to bars, etc while hospitals are flooded and corpses are put in over flow refrigerated tractor trailers used as temp morgues.

That happens, and it very well would, people will freak the **** out and go nowhere. So you'd end up with the same economic mess, but with ballpark 5x the deaths.

Stop pretending people would carry on normal behavior as people die off in record numbers.


Why don't people on here realize that there are other Options between doing nothing and going overboard?

Encouraging work from home, stoping all large gatherings, implementing international travel restrictions, quarantining those with confirmed cases, locking down nursing homes, closing schools and universities, encouraging strangers to keep 6ft apart in public, and encouraging those at greatest risk to stay home all fall into the category of " doing something". We didn't have to shut down all the bars, restaurants and "non-essential" businesses. There was going to be an economic impact either way, but we're making it worse than it had to be.

The best thing about all this is thanks to Mexico, Brazil, and Sweden, we will be able to see which approach was best.
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nortex97
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In reply to Necrosis • 1:36p, 4/3/20
AG
Necrosis said:
You guys just don't get it. Italy pulled out an economic nuclear option to get this virus under control. So did China. And they did it a lot earlier. The US will be forced to do the same. We should have done it a lot sooner. Instead of turning the faucet off we have slowly slowed the flow. But the faucet is still on. Italian doctors warned us about not repeating their mistakes and the even went so far as saying watching the US handle this situation was like watching a horror movie. The sooner we turn it off the sooner we can get back to work. But it's going to take weeks.
Ok Mr. dead tissue. Please cite the data as to how we should have done what Italian Doctors advocated.

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PJYoung
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In reply to TxAG#2011 • 1:39p, 4/3/20
AG
TxAG#2011 said:
chigger said:
Quote:
At this point it seems like the "peak" just get's pushed back and back. Maybe the peak is really just a flat line that is the reality?


You literally just described "flattening the curve" have you not read or watched anything the last month?
At the rate we are going, there is no "curve." There is just lockdown. We have been under quarantine for weeks already. What is going to change to have the restrictions lifted?

Our hospitals won't get overrun, we will be that much closer to a viral remedy to make this a less serious virus, doctors and nurses will have adequate PPE, hospitals will have enough ventilators, testing will finally be adequate to tell us who can go back to work, etc. This horrible lock down that is killing our economy is buying us time so that the virus doesn't kill the economy + millions of Americans.

If it looks like the lock down was an overreaction then it worked. It already looks like Washington and California are going to have enough resources to get thru this without being overrun. Hopefully it's like that in most other areas of the country.
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Complete Idiot
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 1:39p, 4/3/20
Player To Be Named Later said:
Why does everyone always just gloss over the fact that the economy will also tank if we open everything up and cases/death sky rocket?

People seem to be under the assumption that people would go out to eat, out to bars, etc while hospitals are flooded and corpses are put in over flow refrigerated tractor trailers used as temp morgues.

That happens, and it very well would, people will freak the **** out and go nowhere. So you'd end up with the same economic mess, but with ballpark 5x the deaths.

Stop pretending people would carry on normal behavior as people die off in record numbers.
It does get lost by many. Instead of near 10% loss, maybe restaurants would have 70% loss? I found articles describing the Spanish Fly of 1918 - sure, vastly different economy and time in history - that said business shuttered because their employees got sick and others wouldn't come to work, or guests were sick and/or were afraid to come to visit. As a result, sizable impact to the economy.
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JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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1:42p, 4/3/20
AG
It's just amazing to me that the crowd that was, a week ago, talking about how stupid it was to shut down the economy to "save a few thousand lives", is now trying to pretend that it's still a huge mistake, despite the fact that we'll still likely see over 100,000 deaths despite these measures.

Of course, I'm not sure why it is surprising cause they are also on these threads saying how it isn't working, which is mostly because they never understood the projections to begin with.
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Sb1540
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In reply to Complete Idiot • 1:42p, 4/3/20
Complete Idiot said:
Larry Lajitas said:
mccjames said:
I think you overestimate how much working capital most small restaurants and service industry small companies have.

If this goes to June or July which I am fully expecting at this time based on what I have seen, that is 5 months of no income, no way most small business survive that. They just do not have the borrowing capacity or the revenue production to pay back a loan that large to survive.

Most will not be able to re-open in 180 days. Just not going to happen without a ton of forgiveness ie Property tax, rent, leases, payroll, insurance etc.....
Ya this is exactly what I'm thinking. Are we going to have a reset button? What does that look like? Look at the amount of debt before all of this. What's going to happen to student loans? Nobody's going to be paying those now..rent comes first.
Please read the reply I made to you twenty posts back, it has data on student loans. If you don't know what's going to happen there is a lot of information on line regarding the stimulus package. I'm trying to provide facts but your posts are more fear-mongering. And I'm not trying to be too critical, my wife in healthcare has both lost work AND continues to see patients, putting her and our family at risk of getting covid, so I get the financial and health fears. But for me, reading and researching is better than spiraling on my worst fears.
Well let's paint a better picture first...student loan debt relief is for federally owned loans only. Private loans such as Wells Fargo, Sallie Mae, or SoFi, Navient which typically come with higher sums and interest rates do not apply to this. So now those borrowers who lost their job due to situations completely out of their control will owe MORE money to corporations. Ain't that something? There's no fear here...just realistic. Let's check back to this thread in a few weeks and a month after that. It's going to be interesting.
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JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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In reply to Sb1540 • 1:45p, 4/3/20
AG
I don't think anyone is saying things look rosy for the future.

But this notion that if we just go back to "normal" life, things look better isn't based in reality. Again, see what people were saying just last week and the week before...it's pretty clear the "this is all stupid" crowd is a huge fan of under estimating the impact of this disease.
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dragmagpuff
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1:47p, 4/3/20
AG
MIT posted an analysis of economic activity post Spanish Flu this week.

Quote:
With much of the U.S. in shutdown mode to limit the spread of the Covid-19 disease, a debate has sprung up about when the country might "reopen" commerce, to limit economic fallout from the pandemic. But as a new study co-authored by an MIT economist shows, taking care of public health first is precisely what generates a stronger economic rebound later.

The study, using data from the flu pandemic that swept the U.S. in 1918-1919, finds cities that acted more emphatically to limit social and civic interactions had more economic growth following the period of restrictions.

Quote:
"We find no evidence that cities that acted more aggressively in public health terms performed worse in economic terms," says Emil Verner, an assistant professor in the MIT Sloan School of Management and co-author of a new paper detailing the findings. "If anything, the cities that acted more aggressively performed better."
Obviously, the economy of 2020 is much different than the economy of 1920 and COVID-19 is different than the Spanish Flu (especially at killing young people). But in 1920, cities that did not lockdown early were just pushing the economic pain down the road.

It's a good thing that the last pandemic like this was 100 years ago, but it does make it hard to draw conclusions from analogue events.
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Sb1540
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In reply to JDCAG (NOT Colin) • 1:51p, 4/3/20
JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:
I don't think anyone is saying things look rosy for the future.

But this notion that if we just go back to "normal" life, things look better isn't based in reality. Again, see what people were saying just last week and the week before...it's pretty clear the "this is all stupid" crowd is a huge fan of under estimating the impact of this disease.
I shouldn't be responsible for payments on ANYTHING if I lose my job due to the wrecking of the economy by our government. It's completely out of my control. I'm not saying to go back to business as usual. We are so far past that.

Edit- corporations that are looking for payment can go to the fed. THEY are the ones who did this. I don't care about the virus situation. There's nothing I can do about that.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to SirLurksALot • 1:52p, 4/3/20
AG
Mexico is now pretty much following our lead, so scratch what happens there. Cozumel only has 2 ferries a day from PDC, all businesses are pretty much closed, and no boats in and out of the marinas
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PJYoung
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 1:54p, 4/3/20
AG
Player To Be Named Later said:
Mexico is now pretty much following our lead, so scratch what happens there. Cozumel only has 2 ferries a day from PDC, all businesses are pretty much closed, and no boats in and out of the marinas

That's great news. They were a little bit slow to respond and I was afraid they might try to ignore it all together.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to PJYoung • 1:56p, 4/3/20
AG
The pueblo of Xcalak, south of Mahahual, had citizens blockading the road into town.

Even Mr "I have a lucky charm and lucky $2 bill in my pocket" AMLO has changed his tune.
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PJYoung
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In reply to SirLurksALot • 1:58p, 4/3/20
AG
SirLurksALot said:
Player To Be Named Later said:
Why does everyone always just gloss over the fact that the economy will also tank if we open everything up and cases/death sky rocket?

People seem to be under the assumption that people would go out to eat, out to bars, etc while hospitals are flooded and corpses are put in over flow refrigerated tractor trailers used as temp morgues.

That happens, and it very well would, people will freak the **** out and go nowhere. So you'd end up with the same economic mess, but with ballpark 5x the deaths.

Stop pretending people would carry on normal behavior as people die off in record numbers.


Why don't people on here realize that there are other Options between doing nothing and going overboard?

Encouraging work from home, stoping all large gatherings, implementing international travel restrictions, quarantining those with confirmed cases, locking down nursing homes, closing schools and universities, encouraging strangers to keep 6ft apart in public, and encouraging those at greatest risk to stay home all fall into the category of " doing something". We didn't have to shut down all the bars, restaurants and "non-essential" businesses. There was going to be an economic impact either way, but we're making it worse than it had to be.

The best thing about all this is thanks to Mexico, Brazil, and Sweden, we will be able to see which approach was best.

I don't know if we can trust #s out of Brazil but this is Sweden so far:



'They are leading us to catastrophe': Sweden's coronavirus stoicism begins to jar
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SirLurksALot
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In reply to PJYoung • 2:01p, 4/3/20
PJYoung said:
SirLurksALot said:
Player To Be Named Later said:
Why does everyone always just gloss over the fact that the economy will also tank if we open everything up and cases/death sky rocket?

People seem to be under the assumption that people would go out to eat, out to bars, etc while hospitals are flooded and corpses are put in over flow refrigerated tractor trailers used as temp morgues.

That happens, and it very well would, people will freak the **** out and go nowhere. So you'd end up with the same economic mess, but with ballpark 5x the deaths.

Stop pretending people would carry on normal behavior as people die off in record numbers.


Why don't people on here realize that there are other Options between doing nothing and going overboard?

Encouraging work from home, stoping all large gatherings, implementing international travel restrictions, quarantining those with confirmed cases, locking down nursing homes, closing schools and universities, encouraging strangers to keep 6ft apart in public, and encouraging those at greatest risk to stay home all fall into the category of " doing something". We didn't have to shut down all the bars, restaurants and "non-essential" businesses. There was going to be an economic impact either way, but we're making it worse than it had to be.

The best thing about all this is thanks to Mexico, Brazil, and Sweden, we will be able to see which approach was best.

I don't know if we can trust #s out of Brazil but this is Sweden so far:



'They are leading us to catastrophe': Sweden's coronavirus stoicism begins to jar


It's way to early to tell what's going to happen. Let's see what effect this has on Sweden total number of annual deaths for all causes and what the comparative economic situations looks like at the end of the year. Then we might have a better understanding.
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JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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In reply to Sb1540 • 2:02p, 4/3/20
AG
Larry Lajitas said:
JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:
I don't think anyone is saying things look rosy for the future.

But this notion that if we just go back to "normal" life, things look better isn't based in reality. Again, see what people were saying just last week and the week before...it's pretty clear the "this is all stupid" crowd is a huge fan of under estimating the impact of this disease.
I shouldn't be responsible for payments on ANYTHING if I lose my job due to the wrecking of the economy by our government. It's completely out of my control. I'm not saying to go back to business as usual. We are so far past that.

Edit- corporations that are looking for payment can go to the fed. THEY are the ones who did this. I don't care about the virus situation. There's nothing I can do about that.


I get it - it sucks, and there is a reason they're looking into these massive social programs to try and get people money, extend/increase unemployment benefits, etc.

I guess my question would be, if they didn't shut anything down, and people stopped buying things, going out, etc. because of the virus and businesses saw themselves having to have the same layoffs and reduction of payroll - would you find that to be any more "your fault" than this is?

Again, the implication here is that, had the government NOT "wrecked our economy", you would be in control of your situation and responsible for everything that happens and the sad truth of the matter is - when dealing with the virus vs the economy, the list of losers is massive on both sides (and in both sectors - deaths and job loss).
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PJYoung
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In reply to SirLurksALot • 2:02p, 4/3/20
AG
SirLurksALot said:
PJYoung said:
SirLurksALot said:
Player To Be Named Later said:
Why does everyone always just gloss over the fact that the economy will also tank if we open everything up and cases/death sky rocket?

People seem to be under the assumption that people would go out to eat, out to bars, etc while hospitals are flooded and corpses are put in over flow refrigerated tractor trailers used as temp morgues.

That happens, and it very well would, people will freak the **** out and go nowhere. So you'd end up with the same economic mess, but with ballpark 5x the deaths.

Stop pretending people would carry on normal behavior as people die off in record numbers.


Why don't people on here realize that there are other Options between doing nothing and going overboard?

Encouraging work from home, stoping all large gatherings, implementing international travel restrictions, quarantining those with confirmed cases, locking down nursing homes, closing schools and universities, encouraging strangers to keep 6ft apart in public, and encouraging those at greatest risk to stay home all fall into the category of " doing something". We didn't have to shut down all the bars, restaurants and "non-essential" businesses. There was going to be an economic impact either way, but we're making it worse than it had to be.

The best thing about all this is thanks to Mexico, Brazil, and Sweden, we will be able to see which approach was best.

I don't know if we can trust #s out of Brazil but this is Sweden so far:



'They are leading us to catastrophe': Sweden's coronavirus stoicism begins to jar


It's way to early to tell what's going to happen. Let's see what effect this has on Sweden total number of annual deaths for all causes and what the comparative economic situations looks like at the end of the year. Then we might have a better understanding.

Oh I agree.

I also think that they will be going into a total lock down like everybody else in the coming days and they will have an acute shortage of ICU beds in Stockholm at the very least.
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nortex97
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 2:05p, 4/3/20
AG
Player To Be Named Later said:
The pueblo of Xcalak, south of Mahahual, had citizens blockading the road into town.

Even Mr "I have a lucky charm and lucky $2 bill in my pocket" AMLO has changed his tune.
Yeah, we can celebrate that they are 'serious' but it is going to be a disaster.

95% of their populous cannot afford to go 2 months without a paycheck and they lack the printing press/fed reserve 'capabilities' to shut everything down. Pure unadulterated chaos in Mexico to come is anything but good news, least of all for Texas.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:07p, 4/3/20
AG
It is scary, given their healthcare system. They won't remotely be able to handle the numbers they will likely see. It's going to be really sad to see.
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Sb1540
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In reply to Complete Idiot • 2:08p, 4/3/20
Complete Idiot said:
Larry Lajitas said:
chigger said:
You know the current predictions are that it won't peak in Texas until the first week in May right? You think everyone should go back to normal at the peak? I think it should be the end of May personally.
Some of you people really just don't get it. Unemployment could soar to 20% in April... If they really want to salvage every day life in America then they are going to need to have a massive forgiveness program for missed mortgage payments, utilities, and even previous debts like credit cards and school loans. This is going to bury our population. I personally know several people who have already been laid off and many who are on the chopping block. But ya let's keep talking about a shutdown until the end of May. Idiots.
I am sure you are a very well read person, but you may have missed some details in the recent record setting Stimulus Bill. Yes, this is a very negative and dire situation but it's not really a shutdown economically, many - most even - businesses are still operating. It's a hit to GDP - you can google projections for quarters, the year, etc - but it's not taking everything to zero. I hope the stimulus money can be properly managed and distributed - a huge challenge given the numbers - and that it helps the people you are concerned about.

"If they really want to salvage every day life in America then they are going to need to have a massive forgiveness program for missed mortgage payments"

Rent and Mortgage Payment Relief

Homeowners who have federally backed mortgages (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, VA, HUD or USDA loans) and are experiencing financial hardship due to the coronavirus pandemic may request forbearance for up to 180 days. (On April 1, 2020, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin clarified that you must have lost your job to qualify for federally back mortgage forbearance.) During this period, borrowers will not incur fees, penalties or interest due to not making their mortgage payments. To receive the deferral, you do not have to prove the condition of your finances; you only have to attest to it. But you do have to contact your loan servicer to have your payments postponed. You may request an additional 180 days of mortgage relief if needed.
That said, if your mortgage is held by a private lender, you should still contact it to see if it is providing mortgage relief. Many banks, including Fifth Third Bank, Marcus (Goldman Sachs) and TD Bank, are suspending payments or offering special terms. Also, check to see if your governor has made any mortgage-related declarations. In New York, the governor has waived mortgage payments for 90 days. Many states are also calling a moratorium on evictions and foreclosures

"school loans"

WASHINGTONThe economic-stimulus package signed by President Trump on Friday offers relief for most of the 43 million Americans who owe a total of $1.5 trillion in federal student debt. The bill allows most borrowers to stop making monthly payments through Sept. 30, with no financial penalties.5 days ago

"Utilities and credit cards"

The new $2.2 trillion stimulus package signed into law last week will allow people to receive an extra $600 a week in unemployment benefits for up to four months on top of the amount they get from the state.

That's a significant boost from the average weekly unemployment-insurance check, which was $385 in January.
The relief package also lets self-employed and contract workers, who typically aren't eligible, to get up to 39 weeks of unemployment benefits via the new Pandemic Unemployment Assistance program.
I already posted for the student loans but the mortgage payments cover roughly 63%...what about the others lol? What about renters throughout the country? Even with that forbearance won't be enough for many.
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River Bass
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2:10p, 4/3/20
Eventually people will ignore the shelter in place orders. It's already happening in southern Italy and India.
There aren't enough police and guardsmen to keep people in their homes...especially if any of them get sick or need to be home to protect their families.
The lock down ends when civil unrest is becomes so bad that the nation has to focus on suppressing riots and looting instead of fighting the virus.
If we get to that point, there may be no return to our way of life.
At this point, we would be better off just allowing businesses to get back to normal and dealing with the death. It could at least save our country for future generations.
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to [removed post] • 2:12p, 4/3/20
AG
SoupNazi2001 said:
chigger said:
We are not under quarantine. 2/3 of people are ignoring it. That's the reason.


No they are not. Even China let their people get groceries, medication, etc.
The 'shelter in place' stuff in the United States is much more lenient than what happened in China, Europe, or many other countries.

You mentioned China, they allowed one person per household to go get groceries once every three days. You couldn't just go to the grocery store any time that you wanted.

As another example, I live in another country and am not allowed to leave my house area for any reason except on Tuesday, Thursday, or Saturday from 7:30 am - 9:30 am. And when I leave my house during those time slots, it is only to get groceries. There is a curfew at 9:pm to 5:pm. No jogging or anybody in public parks is allowed. There are police checkpoints that will stop you to make sure you allowed to be out.

In France as another example, I noticed you are not allowed to go more than 1 kilometer (about a 3rd of a mile) from your house for any reason, unless there is no grocery store within that distance. And when you do go out, you have to fill out some paperwork indicating what the purpose of your trip is and why it is essential.

There is 'Shelter-In-Place' and then there is 'Lockdown/Quarantine'...the U.S. is doing the former approach
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Proposition Joe
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In reply to [removed post] • 2:13p, 4/3/20
SoupNazi2001 said:
Motracicletraficificker said:
chigger said:
You know the current predictions are that it won't peak in Texas until the first week in May right? You think everyone should go back to normal at the peak? I think it should be the end of May personally.
Thank you for sensible thought.

Look I'm generally a "tough guy" but I'm not an idiot. Everyone has their own perspectives, I get it. My dad is very old school, not following recommendations and says, "the good lord new when I was coming into this world, and knows when I'm going out". I generally have this mind set, but not this time. I asked him why wear a seat belt then? Why not eat ice cream all day long? Why stop at red lights and stops sign then, just burn 'em every time? You get the point...

My perspective is this, this time....

I have several kids. If they get it, I cannot:
1. Go into the hospital with them. Stay overnight at the hospital with them. Ride in an ambulance with them. They will die alone, if it came to that.
2. My parents, if they get it. I cannot visit them in the hospital. They would die alone, by themselves, with no support around them.
3. If I get it, ignore it, pass it around...likely my nearest friends, co-workers, and family members will get it and potentially give it to their kids and parents. Then they will suffer the same as point 1&2 above.

It's not worth it. I could never live that down, if I knew it was because I'm taking the "tough guy" "god only knows" approach.

So everyone stop being fools. Heed the cautions. If it peaks in May, it's not just going to disappear! It's going to take a few months thereafter of MORE social distancing, so we don't get a Round 2. I'm thinking this is the new normal until Summer...as in July 1st or later.



You know there is a near 0 chance that young kids die from this right.

Good grief. He said if it came to that.

Guess what, he doesn't want his kid to get sick and have to go to the hospital AT ALL.


I mean, at what point do you look at your own post history and finally think to yourself "hey, maybe I've been embarrassingly wrong about this whole thing and should just keep my mouth shut?"


Quote:
I would have never imagined the panic a virus similar to the flu could create. It's like people have watched too much Contagion or Outbreak movies. At least in those movies if you got it, you died. So many weak minded sheep among us.

Quote:
I've had the flu vaccine twice, still got the flu those years. It doesn't help that much. Tamiflu gave me nausea that was worse than the flu. I got over the flu and was fine. Stop being pansies and drama queens.

Quote:
I'm really glad that we all decided to cancel everything and cause a global recession so I don't get sick for a week.


No one should be listening to you. No one. I'm really starting to wonder if maybe those kids who never seemed to manage to win even one game of Oregon Trail should have been held back?
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ORAggieFan
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In reply to River Bass • 2:14p, 4/3/20
River Bass said:
At this point, we would be better off just allowing businesses to get back to normal and dealing with the death. It could at least save our country for future generations.
1. No we wouldn't. We'd be MUCH worse off.
2. What makes you think people would go to these businesses?
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River Bass
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In reply to ORAggieFan • 2:18p, 4/3/20
Most people that I know who work for a living would gladly return to their offices if their companies opened their door and schools resumed. There is still business and commerce happening today. Most business outside of retail and hospitality are already considered essential. They are hanging on by a thread. They can't hang on much longer. We should resume school and return to work while there are still functioning industries to return to.
If we don't, the death rates from violence, suicides, and poverty will easily surpass even the most grim COVID death rate
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2wealfth Man
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2:25p, 4/3/20
AG
Back to the county ruling; I think the issue I am having is the arbitrary nature of just rolling it forward without really supporting it by facts other than to say they think the peak is early now May. I think some of us would like to see the value in the sacrifices being made for the good of the public health. It is clear we have lowered the death rate and lengthened to the time to peak; which were all valid and necessary to protect us from the impacts of doing nothing.

I, for one, would like to see what kind criteria are going to used to determine when and how we loosen up some of these restrictions; is it no deaths; no new cases, decreasing rates of new cases, a certificate saying we have all been tested and are negative? All of these have different time horizons and inherent social and economic costs to us. Five or six commissioners in a meeting room making decisions of this magnitude; I don't know what to think about that.
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to River Bass • 2:26p, 4/3/20
AG
River Bass said:
Most people that I know who work for a living would gladly return to their offices if their companies opened their door and schools resumed. There is still business and commerce happening today. Most business outside of retail and hospitality are already considered essential. They are hanging on by a thread. They can't hang on much longer. We should resume school and return to work while there are still functioning industries to return to.
If we don't, the death rates from violence, suicides, and poverty will easily surpass even the most grim COVID death rate
I will be pretty shocked if any schools reopen for the present school year.
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Sb1540
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In reply to JDCAG (NOT Colin) • 2:28p, 4/3/20
JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:
Larry Lajitas said:
JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:
I don't think anyone is saying things look rosy for the future.

But this notion that if we just go back to "normal" life, things look better isn't based in reality. Again, see what people were saying just last week and the week before...it's pretty clear the "this is all stupid" crowd is a huge fan of under estimating the impact of this disease.
I shouldn't be responsible for payments on ANYTHING if I lose my job due to the wrecking of the economy by our government. It's completely out of my control. I'm not saying to go back to business as usual. We are so far past that.

Edit- corporations that are looking for payment can go to the fed. THEY are the ones who did this. I don't care about the virus situation. There's nothing I can do about that.


I get it - it sucks, and there is a reason they're looking into these massive social programs to try and get people money, extend/increase unemployment benefits, etc.

I guess my question would be, if they didn't shut anything down, and people stopped buying things, going out, etc. because of the virus and businesses saw themselves having to have the same layoffs and reduction of payroll - would you find that to be any more "your fault" than this is?

Again, the implication here is that, had the government NOT "wrecked our economy", you would be in control of your situation and responsible for everything that happens and the sad truth of the matter is - when dealing with the virus vs the economy, the list of losers is massive on both sides (and in both sectors - deaths and job loss).
Oh I never assumed I had any control, that would be very naive. And no that's bull**** for losses on both sides. I didn't see the little guy getting bailed out in 08. Keep singing this tune. We will see what happens in a few weeks. What's our unemployment at right now? 10 million and counting baby over only two weeks.
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ETFan
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In reply to River Bass • 2:30p, 4/3/20
River Bass said:
Most people that I know who work for a living would gladly return to their offices if their companies opened their door and schools resumed. There is still business and commerce happening today. Most business outside of retail and hospitality are already considered essential. They are hanging on by a thread. They can't hang on much longer. We should resume school and return to work while there are still functioning industries to return to.
If we don't, the death rates from violence, suicides, and poverty will easily surpass even the most grim COVID death rate
This isn't an option. Sorry.
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In reply to Proposition Joe • 2:32p, 4/3/20
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Proposition Joe said:
SoupNazi2001 said:
Motracicletraficificker said:
chigger said:
You know the current predictions are that it won't peak in Texas until the first week in May right? You think everyone should go back to normal at the peak? I think it should be the end of May personally.
Thank you for sensible thought.

Look I'm generally a "tough guy" but I'm not an idiot. Everyone has their own perspectives, I get it. My dad is very old school, not following recommendations and says, "the good lord new when I was coming into this world, and knows when I'm going out". I generally have this mind set, but not this time. I asked him why wear a seat belt then? Why not eat ice cream all day long? Why stop at red lights and stops sign then, just burn 'em every time? You get the point...

My perspective is this, this time....

I have several kids. If they get it, I cannot:
1. Go into the hospital with them. Stay overnight at the hospital with them. Ride in an ambulance with them. They will die alone, if it came to that.
2. My parents, if they get it. I cannot visit them in the hospital. They would die alone, by themselves, with no support around them.
3. If I get it, ignore it, pass it around...likely my nearest friends, co-workers, and family members will get it and potentially give it to their kids and parents. Then they will suffer the same as point 1&2 above.

It's not worth it. I could never live that down, if I knew it was because I'm taking the "tough guy" "god only knows" approach.

So everyone stop being fools. Heed the cautions. If it peaks in May, it's not just going to disappear! It's going to take a few months thereafter of MORE social distancing, so we don't get a Round 2. I'm thinking this is the new normal until Summer...as in July 1st or later.



You know there is a near 0 chance that young kids die from this right.

Good grief. He said if it came to that.

Guess what, he doesn't want his kid to get sick and have to go to the hospital AT ALL.


I mean, at what point do you look at your own post history and finally think to yourself "hey, maybe I've been embarrassingly wrong about this whole thing and should just keep my mouth shut?"


Quote:
I would have never imagined the panic a virus similar to the flu could create. It's like people have watched too much Contagion or Outbreak movies. At least in those movies if you got it, you died. So many weak minded sheep among us.

Quote:
I've had the flu vaccine twice, still got the flu those years. It doesn't help that much. Tamiflu gave me nausea that was worse than the flu. I got over the flu and was fine. Stop being pansies and drama queens.

Quote:
I'm really glad that we all decided to cancel everything and cause a global recession so I don't get sick for a week.


No one should be listening to you. No one. I'm really starting to wonder if maybe those kids who never seemed to manage to win even one game of Oregon Trail should have been held back?


You seem to take differing opinions very personally for some reason.
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JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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In reply to Sb1540 • 2:36p, 4/3/20
AG
Larry Lajitas said:
JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:
Larry Lajitas said:
JDCAG (NOT Colin) said:
I don't think anyone is saying things look rosy for the future.

But this notion that if we just go back to "normal" life, things look better isn't based in reality. Again, see what people were saying just last week and the week before...it's pretty clear the "this is all stupid" crowd is a huge fan of under estimating the impact of this disease.
I shouldn't be responsible for payments on ANYTHING if I lose my job due to the wrecking of the economy by our government. It's completely out of my control. I'm not saying to go back to business as usual. We are so far past that.

Edit- corporations that are looking for payment can go to the fed. THEY are the ones who did this. I don't care about the virus situation. There's nothing I can do about that.


I get it - it sucks, and there is a reason they're looking into these massive social programs to try and get people money, extend/increase unemployment benefits, etc.

I guess my question would be, if they didn't shut anything down, and people stopped buying things, going out, etc. because of the virus and businesses saw themselves having to have the same layoffs and reduction of payroll - would you find that to be any more "your fault" than this is?

Again, the implication here is that, had the government NOT "wrecked our economy", you would be in control of your situation and responsible for everything that happens and the sad truth of the matter is - when dealing with the virus vs the economy, the list of losers is massive on both sides (and in both sectors - deaths and job loss).
Oh I never assumed I had any control, that would be very naive. And no that's bull**** for losses on both sides. I didn't see the little guy getting bailed out in 08. Keep singing this tune. We will see what happens in a few weeks. What's our unemployment at right now? 10 million and counting baby over only two weeks.


I'm not talking about bailouts. By "both sides" I mean there are deaths and economic losses on the side of "shut it all down" and "open it all up".
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River Bass
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In reply to ETFan • 2:39p, 4/3/20
Let's chat at the end of April.
I hope you live in a safe area.
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In reply to River Bass • 2:50p, 4/3/20
AG
River Bass said:
Most people that I know who work for a living would gladly return to their offices if their companies opened their door and schools resumed. There is still business and commerce happening today. Most business outside of retail and hospitality are already considered essential. They are hanging on by a thread. They can't hang on much longer. We should resume school and return to work while there are still functioning industries to return to.
If we don't, the death rates from violence, suicides, and poverty will easily surpass even the most grim COVID death rate


What study are you basing the assumption that deaths from those things would "easily" pass ~1.2mil. I've seen a lot of scientific modeling from people who do this for a living that without any measures in place that deaths would conservatively exceed 1,000,000.

What study are you basing "easily" over 1,000,000 deaths (and mind you, that's a conservative # not the most grim estimate) from suicide, violence, and poverty?

Or is that just your opinion?
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River Bass
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2:57p, 4/3/20
It is clearly just an opinion.
What is your opinion on what this country looks like if we face an entire economic collapse?
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Complete Idiot
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3:03p, 4/3/20
I didn't realize hyper negativity was a flagging option, thanks rookie!
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In reply to River Bass • 3:04p, 4/3/20
AG
River Bass said:
It is clearly just an opinion.
What is your opinion on what this country looks like if we face an entire economic collapse?


Well, that would suck for me, because being in patrol for local city PD, I'd get to enjoy that **** show on the front lines.

But I'm of the opinion that it would very well end up worse if we just go to life as usual right now. You'd still have the economic collapse but mix in a good dose of panic from seeing very high death #s. You want every hospital looking like NYC and New Orleans? Open everything up. Then everything would be barren and closed anyway with people refusing to leave home.

Look, I get it, it sucks. My dad as a business in a mall that is obviously closed right now. Amazingly enough, he still is able to see the wisdom of that move, even though it hurts him.
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