Got antibody tested today

23,978 Views | 136 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by jpistolero02
NASAg03
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Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


Glad you aren't my doctor. With this gloom and doom and excessive safety, you won't be in business to keep treating patients if we stay inside until this virus is fully understood. We've been researching for months now and have gotten nowhere. You do realize heathcare isn't free and runs on money, right?

I had a virtual meeting with my PCP this week to get inhaler refills, and she mentioned she saw a huge spike in flu-like illness in January, and as such, is recommending that all her patients that experienced such symptoms be tested for covid-19 antibodies.

Mike Shaw - Class of '03
Tabasco
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NASAg03 said:

Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


Glad you aren't my doctor. With this gloom and doom and excessive safety, you won't be in business to keep treating patients if we stay inside until this virus is fully understood. We've been researching for months now and have gotten nowhere. You do realize heathcare isn't free and runs on money, right?

I had a virtual meeting with my PCP this week to get inhaler refills, and she mentioned she saw a huge spike in flu-like illness in January, and as such, is recommending that all her patients that experienced such symptoms be tested for covid-19 antibodies.


I didn't read that as doom and gloom, and I appreciate hearing any good information on antibody testing. One, because that Sugar Land testing sight is right by me. Two, I'm just curious if I would test positive or not (not that it would change anything for me; for reference, I have been working outside of the home). Three, I have wondered about how much immunity we will develop. People are acting like it is a guaranteed thing. I've had one flu shot in my life (1991; forced by VA hospital when I was doing a practicum there for graduate school), and I have only gotten the flu once a couple of years ago. We have new flu vaccines every year, and they only work on a limited basis. I understand strains mutate, but testing positive for the flu once does not necessarily make you immune. I would like to know the base rate of the population that tests positive for antibodies, because like the previous poster noted if 1000 tested, big difference in false positives if the number is 40 vs 400.
doctorAg13
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Moxley said:

The specificity of the test (2nd column) represents the false positive rate and is, in my opinion, the most important thing to look at. False negatives are not necessarily going to be harmful to anyone's health, but the assurance that comes with a false positive could be very problematic.

A specificity of 98% may sound good, but it's actually pretty bad here. It means that around 2 out of every 100 people you test will be a false positive.

Let's say you test 1,000 people to see how widespread covid-19 really is. 40 people test positive. 20 of those tests (2% of the 1000) could be false positives. This doesn't mean it's not useless information in terms of guesstimating percentage of population affected, but it is completely useless to the individual who has been tested because they only have a 50/50 chance of actually having the antibodies.

The effect of false positives go way down when the disease is more widespread. If 400 people test positive, the false positive rate would still only be about 20 people. If you are one of those four hundred people you feel a lot more confident about actually having antibodies.
Good points. I would say that false negatives early in the course of disease could potentially be harmful in the case of asymptomatic spreaders. As the prevalence of disease goes up, we should have better confidence in the validity of positive results, i.e., positive predictive value.

Good reference (among many) for understanding basic statistical terms used in regards to testing.

https://online.stat.psu.edu/stat507/node/71/
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
J. Walter Weatherman
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Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


One of the docs/scientists can correct me if I'm wrong, but while we don't have absolute 100% proof of immunity with antibodies, not having immunity to at least this strain would be pretty significantly out of alignment with our reaction to other viruses, correct?
Gizzards
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NASAg03 said:

Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


Glad you aren't my doctor. With this gloom and doom and excessive safety, you won't be in business to keep treating patients if we stay inside until this virus is fully understood. We've been researching for months now and have gotten nowhere. You do realize heathcare isn't free and runs on money, right?

I had a virtual meeting with my PCP this week to get inhaler refills, and she mentioned she saw a huge spike in flu-like illness in January, and as such, is recommending that all her patients that experienced such symptoms be tested for covid-19 antibodies.



Thanks for the condescending response. I am not stating an opinion about what we don't know about the significance of the presence of antibodies. The answer should be known in time but simply is not known now. That's basically since at best it has been studied for only a few months. Believe me I know the economics of medicine, likely better than you and most on here. I want this stay at home situation gone yesterday. My only doom and gloom scenario is that the economy may not recover any time soon. To be clear, my only point is that at THIS time the significance of an antibody response is unknown regardless of what you or your PCP thinks. In several months I expect we will have more information and am hopeful that a benefit is demonstrated. For now I don't think it is necessary to know your antibody status to reengage in society. With your attitude toward someone trying to give out accurate information, I'm glad you are not my patient.
KidDoc
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


One of the docs/scientists can correct me if I'm wrong, but while we don't have absolute 100% proof of immunity with antibodies, not having immunity to at least this strain would be pretty significantly out of alignment with our reaction to other viruses, correct?
Not at all. The vast majority ( I hesitate to say all but it is pretty close to all can anyone think of one that is long term?) do NOT give long term immunity. Flu, RSV, HMV, parainfluenza all have rapidly waning immunity. RSV specifically has been shown to reinfect the same patient during the same season (October to March).

Measles and Varicella can become respiratory but they are DNA viruses and act a bit differently overall. We get permanent immunity to those.

edit: spelling I hate posting from phone/tablet.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Yeah. This isn't smallpox.
Gizzards
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Cant Think of a Name said:

To say its worthless is projecting.

It may not make you conclusively 100% immune, but it is at least some level of insight with a high probability of at least temporary immunity (while not total immunity at least partial)

Spare your doom and gloom. Its not warranted here.

A test with results whose significance is yet unknown has very little value now, but it may in the future. As a result, at this time it's worthless to me as it won't nor should it change my behavior at this time. I'm not projecting anything. I'm simply stating my medical opinion based on current knowledge. If you can't handle that, then maybe this forum is not the place for you. It's only "doom and gloom" to you because maybe you want the antibody test to answer more questions than it currently does. It's just a comment on the current state of affairs to me as I'm not depending on an antibody test to make me more comfortable about opening up society. There are other indicators which are more important.
Snap E Tom
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https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20061440v1

A study just went into pre-print that found T-Cells in patients that were non-COVID, but had the common cold coronaviruses with similar antigens to SARS 2. This should help them fight off, or make less severe, COVID-19 if exposed.

So while yes, these antibody tests can be triggered positive by common cold corona, this paper suggests, for the purposes of COVID-19 defense, they do have some sort of protection.
Diyala Nick
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KidDoc said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


One of the docs/scientists can correct me if I'm wrong, but while we don't have absolute 100% proof of immunity with antibodies, not having immunity to at least this strain would be pretty significantly out of alignment with our reaction to other viruses, correct?
Not at all. The vast majority ( I hesitate to say all but it is pretty close to all can anyone think of one that is long term?) do NOT give long term immunity. Flu, RSV, HMV, parainfluenza all have rapidly waning immunity. RSV specifically has been shown to reinfect the same patient during the same season (October to March).

Measles and Varicella can become respiratory but they are DNA viruses and act a bit differently overall. We get permanent immunity to hose.


There is some nuance to this, no? As in, your antibodies may wane but your t-cells and b cell memory may still offer a layer of protection.

I guess my point here is that immunity is much more of a dimmer than it is a light switch. For most people with prior exposure, that dimmer is likely to afford some protection and make subsequent infections less severe.
KidDoc
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Diyala Nick said:

KidDoc said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


One of the docs/scientists can correct me if I'm wrong, but while we don't have absolute 100% proof of immunity with antibodies, not having immunity to at least this strain would be pretty significantly out of alignment with our reaction to other viruses, correct?
Not at all. The vast majority ( I hesitate to say all but it is pretty close to all can anyone think of one that is long term?) do NOT give long term immunity. Flu, RSV, HMV, parainfluenza all have rapidly waning immunity. RSV specifically has been shown to reinfect the same patient during the same season (October to March).

Measles and Varicella can become respiratory but they are DNA viruses and act a bit differently overall. We get permanent immunity to hose.


There is some nuance to this, no? As in, your antibodies may wane but your t-cells and b cell memory may still offer a layer of protection.

I guess my point here is that immunity is much more of a dimmer than it is a light switch. For most people with prior exposure, that dimmer is likely to afford some protection and make subsequent infections less severe.
You are 100% correct. There is an unknown level of titer that will likely give COVID immunity. Lower levels will likely still result in a more rapid response. I see this most frequently in Varicella (Chicken Pox) these days. Some immunized kids have a weird wimpy infection with no fever and about 10-20 lesions. Those are partial immunity responders.

On a different point wouldn't it be awesome if the vaccine just turns out to be getting a common coronavirus sprayed up your nose? That would be so easy to manufacture. Sucky side effects but I would do it!
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Diyala Nick
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KidDoc said:

Diyala Nick said:

KidDoc said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

Gizzards said:

Biggest problem here beyond the accuracy of the tests is the widespread assumption that if you have the appropriate antibodies, then you are immune. No one knows this to be true yet. Moreover, no one knows how long that immunity, if present lasts. It will take months to a year or more to know the duration of any immunity gained. For now antibody testing is worthless for decision making about activity restrictions. If you pay for the test this is something you should understand. The research is being done to answer these questions. If you just want to get out of the house just take a drive. I'm not recommending antibody testing to my patients as a way to make sure they are immune.


One of the docs/scientists can correct me if I'm wrong, but while we don't have absolute 100% proof of immunity with antibodies, not having immunity to at least this strain would be pretty significantly out of alignment with our reaction to other viruses, correct?
Not at all. The vast majority ( I hesitate to say all but it is pretty close to all can anyone think of one that is long term?) do NOT give long term immunity. Flu, RSV, HMV, parainfluenza all have rapidly waning immunity. RSV specifically has been shown to reinfect the same patient during the same season (October to March).

Measles and Varicella can become respiratory but they are DNA viruses and act a bit differently overall. We get permanent immunity to hose.


There is some nuance to this, no? As in, your antibodies may wane but your t-cells and b cell memory may still offer a layer of protection.

I guess my point here is that immunity is much more of a dimmer than it is a light switch. For most people with prior exposure, that dimmer is likely to afford some protection and make subsequent infections less severe.
You are 100% correct. There is an unknown level of titer that will likely give COVID immunity. Lower levels will likely still result in a more rapid response. I see this most frequently in Varicella (Chicken Pox) these days. Some immunized kids have a weird wimpy infection with no fever and about 10-20 lesions. Those are partial immunity responders.

On a different point wouldn't it be awesome if the vaccine just turns out to be getting a common coronavirus sprayed up your nose? That would be so easy to manufacture. Sucky side effects but I would do it!


This would be amazing. Hopefully it's not 2 years away.
Gizzards
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Unfortunately your conclusion is not what the authors suggested. They make the case of a similar T cell response, but state more than once that it is not known whether this translates into any actual immunity. They further state that the topic of actual immunity will be the subject of much research in the coming months.
oglaw
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RandyAg98 said:

My wife and I got the IgM/IgG test that requires a blood draw, not just a finger-pr1ck. They also do the finger-pr1ck, same-day results test there. It is just a qualitative yes/no test.

2-3 days for results, they say. ArcPoint Labs in SugarLand.

I am fully aware that this is probably a complete waste of time, since these tests may produce positive results to non-SARS-COV-2 antibodies. But I was just curious, and my wife was really excited to put on real clothes and make the 30 minute drive to SugarLand. And wasting money somewhere besides Spec's seemed like a good deed for stimulating the economy!

I'll let y'all know the results, if anyone cares. Anyone else been tested?


Results come in yet?
RandyAg98
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not yet
Tabasco
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Update?
RandyAg98
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Still nothing.
Tabasco
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RandyAg98 said:

Still nothing.


So what's the deal with the 2 tests (finger ***** and blood draw). Is the first a quick but more general, and the blood more specific? Do you gain any more info from the results you are waiting on?

Also, what was the process. I swung in there on the way home from work around noon, called (as instructed for walkins on their website, but they say no walk ins for covid antibody teat. I might make appt for tomorrow
Tabasco
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The censored word is a synonym for cock, that starts with a p and ends with a k. Never really understood that censor
Rachel 98
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Dang, how frustrating. Keep updating though!
RandyAg98
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Ok, got the results. Wife tested positive for IgG, negative for IgM. I tested Negative for both.
Rachel 98
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Looking back in the thread I didn't see if you said that either of y'all had been sick. Were you suspecting that you may have had it?
RandyAg98
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I had a hell of a flu-like bug that really kicked my butt (flu test neg)... but it was in late November/early December, so I was doubtful it was COVID. Wife has not ever had any symptoms. And she tested strongly positive to IgG, suggesting past infection and hopefully functional immunity.
Rachel 98
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Interesting that your wife was infected at some point and you managed to avoid it! What blood types are y'all?
Tabasco
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RandyAg98 said:

Ok, got the results. Wife tested positive for IgG, negative for IgM. I tested Negative for both.


And weren't your finger pri. ck. tests both positive on day of?

What does it mean that she was positive for IgM, but negative for IgM?

Is testing just a big cluster fk?
cone
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crazy
Dogdoc
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Moxley said:

The specificity of the test (2nd column) represents the false positive rate and is, in my opinion, the most important thing to look at. False negatives are not necessarily going to be harmful to anyone's health, but the assurance that comes with a false positive could be very problematic.

A specificity of 98% may sound good, but it's actually pretty bad here. It means that around 2 out of every 100 people you test will be a false positive.

Let's say you test 1,000 people to see how widespread covid-19 really is. 40 people test positive. 20 of those tests (2% of the 1000) could be false positives.
I believe this is incorrect. I'm fairly sure that a 98% false positive rate means that of the total positives, 2% would be false instead of 2% of the total sample size. In your example, it would mean 2% of the 40 that tested positive would be false positive which comes to .8 instead of 20.
permabull
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Rachel 98
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Dogdoc said:

Moxley said:

The specificity of the test (2nd column) represents the false positive rate and is, in my opinion, the most important thing to look at. False negatives are not necessarily going to be harmful to anyone's health, but the assurance that comes with a false positive could be very problematic.

A specificity of 98% may sound good, but it's actually pretty bad here. It means that around 2 out of every 100 people you test will be a false positive.

Let's say you test 1,000 people to see how widespread covid-19 really is. 40 people test positive. 20 of those tests (2% of the 1000) could be false positives.
I believe this is incorrect. I'm fairly sure that a 98% false positive rate means that of the total positives, 2% would be false instead of 2% of the total sample size. In your example, it would mean 2% of the 40 that tested positive would be false positive which comes to .8 instead of 20.


Yes this is correct DogDoc.
RandyAg98
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We did not do the finger pr1ck test. only the blood draw. Took FIVE DAYS for results. THIS LAB
cone
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did your wife ever complain of symptoms?
Tabasco
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RandyAg98 said:

We did not do the finger pr1ck test. only the blood draw. Took FIVE DAYS for results. THIS LAB


I only thought that because you posted on test day a few hours after the test something like "as it stands today, we are both positive."

So maybe you should clarify because that is in sharp contrast to what you said before.
RandyAg98
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I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never said anything about being positive.
Ducks4brkfast
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Got my results this evening. Negative and negative.
RandyAg98
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Unless you are referring to a post I made in response to a hypothetical... what I would do if I tested positive?
 
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