If you had posted this 2+ weeks ago you would've gotten ROASTED lol

He still will, just wait for it.

The comment section reads like Forum 16.

Sad but true...

Fitch said:

---

The comment section reads like Forum 16.

---

Kinda like what this forum has been turned into?

I can't be the only one who has noticed many of the physicians aren't chiming in much with their insight anymore. Sad, that was the best part of this board.

Those guys are 100% correct. Open things up. We are just getting weaker by keeping the healthy people locked up. If you live with or are an old or unhealthy person, stay home. Everyone else needs to go back to normal.

Messaged mods 3.31 personal opinion, bullying was over taking the valuable discussion of front line professionals and scientists.
This was a font of primary source information, scientific discussion, comparison of tactics and outcomes.
I've been a learning lurker.
I still pick through it to glean bits.
Value and chaff shifting.
Sad.

momlaw said:

---

Messaged mods 3.31 personal opinion, bullying was over taking the valuable discussion of front line professionals and scientists.
This was a font of primary source information, scientific discussion, comparison of tactics and outcomes.
I've been a learning lurker.
I still pick through it to glean bits.
Value and chaff shifting.
Sad.

---

We had a doc on here recently talking about the chronic lung and organ issues that many of the survivors will have, and how people in their 30's and 40's will be seeing the doc for the rest of their lives because of it. I was shocked to see a fairly regular poster mention that this was the first they've heard of these chronic issues. That's a shame. It hasn't been a secret. But people miss things because of name-calling.

Player To Be Named Later said:

---

Fitch said:

---

The comment section reads like Forum 16.

---

Kinda like what this forum has been turned into?

I can't be the only one who has noticed many of the physicians aren't chiming in much with their insight anymore. Sad, that was the best part of this board.

---

Yep.

But it's not like the flu? We have multiple threads in this forum, with data, that show that it's not. Every MD that has posted has made it clear that this thing isn't "like the flu", as far as I've seen. So why the thread title?

ETFan said:

---

But it's not like the flu? We have multiple threads in this forum, with data, that show that it's not. Every MD that has posted has made it clear that this thing isn't "like the flu", as far as I've seen. So why the thread title?

---

Let me guess how much of the OP video you watched

Quote:

---

But it's not like the flu? We have multiple threads in this forum, with data, that show that it's not. Every MD that has posted has made it clear that this thing isn't "like the flu", as far as I've seen. So why the thread title?

---

Because the video that was posted is of two doctors in California who are more or less arguing that it is like the flue. Worse than the flu, but not nearly so much worse than we had believed. Basically, all of our rates were wildly off because we were wildly off about the number of people who were or have been positive for Covid19, Or so the argument goes. And what's more, what we're doing, they think, has negative consequences not only for the economy, but for people's health. And not only their mental health, but our physical health, because we're damaging our natural immune systems. Or so they think.

Player To Be Named Later said:

---

Fitch said:

---

The comment section reads like Forum 16.

---

Kinda like what this forum has been turned into?

I can't be the only one who has noticed many of the physicians aren't chiming in much with their insight anymore. Sad, that was the best part of this board.

---

Truth.

While I agree with the doctors that it is not as bad some think, they are taking the number of positive tests percentage from overall tests taken and then extrapolating that out over the entire population which makes no sense. The people getting tested feel they are sick and obviously a higher portion of the tests given will have covid than the general population

panamamyers00 said:

---

While I agree with the doctors that it is not as bad some think, they are taking the number of positive tests percentage from overall tests taken and then extrapolating that out over the entire population which makes no sense. The people getting tested feel they are sick and obviously a higher portion of the tests given will have covid than the general population

---

They are still seeing who is dying. The old, obese, and sick. Every report says the same thing. The young and healthy that die are statistical outliers. You do not quarantine the healthy. You quarantine the ill.

So when you have reports saying 5-20x of the number of confirmed cases are probably out there as asymptomatic carriers, but you don't know who they are, how does that quarantine play out?

Premium said:

---

ETFan said:

---

But it's not like the flu? We have multiple threads in this forum, with data, that show that it's not. Every MD that has posted has made it clear that this thing isn't "like the flu", as far as I've seen. So why the thread title?

---

Let me guess how much of the OP video you watched

---

The entire thing. Plays like a forum 16 talking points newsletter from two physicians that have a vested interest in getting people back in their clinic (which I understand, it just needs to be stated).

Just a few things that stood out:

1. Talks a lot about extrapolating data. He doesn't have representative data so I'm not sure how he can extrapolate that. We simply don't have good reliable population data yet. We don't have a good handle on the number of cases. Yes, there are more than we've tested, obviously. How many more? Can we handle everyone getting sick at once with simply lifting the restrictions? (I don't know)

2. "39% of NY State is infected", what is he talking about? I haven't seen this anywhere. 21% was the last number I saw.

3. Makes it seem like Sweden is fully open, just going about normal business, clearly not true.

4. Compares 53k+ COVID deaths in 1.5months to an entire flu season with 45k deaths. OK?

5. If you have a comorbidity with COVID19 that prematurely cuts your life short by 1, 3, 5+ years? Oh well, it wasn't the COVID, it was the other issue, apparently.


We obviously have to put a plan in place and work together on getting some semblance of normalcy going. I'd like to think that's in the works. We've been shutdown for a month, patience. We're about to find out how bad this thing is, but it's certainly not the flu.

Newoldarmy said:

---

This is one of the major problems with this virus.

Plus the people walking around with it for a week or more spreading it before falling ill.

With flu you get sick and know it on day two or three or so. This crap I think averages five days between exposure and symptoms. Sucks, and makes it harder to simply quarantine only the sick.

---

It makes it impossible to stop the spread and since a good vaccine may never happen or is at least far off, we need to open things up and let it spread this summer and hope enough people get it to slow the spread by winter and that we don't have so many people get it at once that we overwhelm the system.

I think we have enough people scared of the virus to keep it from spreading too fast.... I'm more worried about it not spreading fast enough and then us having a nasty flu/covid season next winter.

ETFan said:

---

Premium said:

---

ETFan said:

---

But it's not like the flu? We have multiple threads in this forum, with data, that show that it's not. Every MD that has posted has made it clear that this thing isn't "like the flu", as far as I've seen. So why the thread title?

---

Let me guess how much of the OP video you watched

---

The entire thing. Plays like a forum 16 talking points newsletter from two physicians that have a vested interest in getting people back in their clinic (which I understand, it just needs to be stated).

Just a few things that stood out:

1. Talks a lot about extrapolating data. He doesn't have representative data so I'm not sure how he can extrapolate that. We simply don't have good reliable population data yet. We don't have a good handle on the number of cases. Yes, there are more than we've tested, obviously. How many more? Can we handle everyone getting sick at once with simply lifting the restrictions? (I don't know)

2. "39% of NY State is infected", what is he talking about? I haven't seen this anywhere. 21% was the last number I saw.

3. Makes it seem like Sweden is fully open, just going about normal business, clearly not true.

4. Compares 53k+ COVID deaths in 1.5months to an entire flu season with 45k deaths. OK?

5. If you have a comorbidity with COVID19 that prematurely cuts your life short by 1, 3, 5+ years? Oh well, it wasn't the COVID, it was the other issue, apparently.


We obviously have to put a plan in place and work together on getting some semblance of normalcy going. I'd like to think that's in the works. We've been shutdown for a month, patience. We're about to find out how bad this thing is, but it's certainly not the flu.

---

It appears your comorbidity is at least as responsible for your death as COVID19. 90% of deaths have had comorbidities. When you are old/sick you are at a greater risk from dying from all kinds of things that would be routine when you were younger or healthy. That is just life. We cannot shutdown the nation to stop that.

Obviousyly it is a much more serious illness than the seasonal flu. With extreme social distancing + closure of schools and universities + cancellation of sporting events and large gatherings + WFH + other unprecedented measures like closing bars and restaurants, it is likely there will be 50k+ CV19-related deaths in the US in April.

If none of the above measures had been taken, one has to wonder what the US death toll for April would have been. 150k+? Followed by worse in May.

Yet the economic shutdown has to end soon. After 4-6 weeks, many people will be at their financial limits. We have to move fwd, return to work, and adjust, and find ways to live with CV19.

To be clear, and before i'm labeled a 'corona bro', I agree we have to get back to work asap. We just need to do it smartly. I know that most advocating for returning to work understand that. Doesn't always feel that way on here, however.

BenColderHere said:

---

Obviousyly it is a much more serious illness than the seasonal flu. With extreme social distancing + closure of schools and universities + cancellation of sporting events and large gatherings + WFH + other unprecedented measures like closing bars and restaurants, it is likely there will be 50k+ CV19-related deaths in the US in April.

If none of the above measures had been taken, one has to wonder what the US death toll for April would have been. 150k+? Followed by worse in May.

Yet the economic shutdown has to end soon. After 4-6 weeks, many people will be at their financial limits. We have to move fwd, return to work, and adjust, and find ways to live with CV19.

---

I think it is way more contagious which is the main problem and slightly more deadly which is the other issue.

The problem with it being so contagious is that it is hopeless to try and stop it from spreading. We should try to slow it down like they are doing in Sweden. We can pretty much open everything that doesn't allow massive crowds and then maybe lower the capacity for places like bars and restaurants that are typically crowded. Other than that people on their own will try to keep from getting it and that will keep it from overwhelming our hospitals. I'm hopeful that doctors have learned a few things about treating it that will lower the death rate to something very close to the flu... maybe 0.2% from now on compared to 0.1% for the flu.

This means that it will kill a lot of people in the end but we can't beat mother nature and everyone on this board is going to die at some point no matter what we do. I think it also kills the same amount of people if we do a complete long-term lockdown but then poverty ends up killing ten times that in addition to covid deaths.

ETFan said:

---

To be clear, and before i'm labeled a 'corona bro', I agree we have to get back to work asap. We just need to do it smartly. I know that most advocating for returning to work understand that. Doesn't always feel that way on here, however.

---

Agreed.

It was a big deal that the Flu killed 80K people a few years ago ... over 55K dead now within a few months even with all the crazy lock downs says its not. Saying its literally the equivalent to the flu is as extreme as some thinking we must be in lockdown until a vaccine regardless of what data comes out.

To me the happy medium based on everything we know is a "smart opening" and a changed society until we get the vaccine.

I think there is a lot more agreement on this amongst most people, but as with everything political in this country, everything is polarized to both extremes.

johnnyblaze36 said:

---

If death rates are about equivalent, why should we expect the public to take it when one for corona becomes available and thus why should we wait on there to be one to begin with?

That's not a political argument at all, athough I agree that everything is political in this country these days. That's where I disagree with a necessary "changed society" based on the true models and data we have now.

---

I think we have very different definitions of "true models and data" because the majority of what I am seeing is 0.5-1% for Covid at best (without a vaccine) and 0.1% for the flu (with 50% of the people getting the vaccine), which is all we can compare since there is no covid vaccine. That is not even taking into consideration flu vs covid rates for hospitalizations, ICU admissions, and long-term disability rates for "recovered" patients. There is a lot of data that I don't think is available yet because Covid is still too new and barely researched.

The reality is that due to it being a novel virus, we don't have sufficient data yet, and from what I've seen, a phased incremental approach to re-opening makes total sense. If all goes well, who knows, maybe we do get back to a completely normal society by August? I kind of doubt that, but no one knows what will be possible. I just think people that want to pretend this is just a regular flu are just as delusional as people that think we must stay locked down totally until there is a vaccine.

Marcus Aurelius said:

---

It is not the flu. But dammit I am sick of it. Hence I have not been posting as much. The politics board has many sickening posters. I can't believe mods allow what some are posting there. Vilifying health care workers. As if we are seeking attention. Far from it for me.

---

I can only imagine doc ... despicable what some folks say, though there are some respectful discussions from both sides, the Mods need to get rid of the ones that are disrespectful on a permanent basis.

Know that the majority of us truly appreciate your insight from the front lines, and are thankful for all of your ability to tune out the outside noise to get your job done.

johnnyblaze36 said:

---

Player To Be Named Later said:

---

Fitch said:

---

The comment section reads like Forum 16.

---

Kinda like what this forum has been turned into?

I can't be the only one who has noticed many of the physicians aren't chiming in much with their insight anymore. Sad, that was the best part of this board.

---

Or maybe there's another reason why they aren't chiming in so much and it's because of videos like the one in the OP, the studies coming out of Stanford and Miami, etc.

I'd probably logoff too if I was so far off about something.

---

So basically calling the physicians on here liars and saying they've only posted their insight into the disease process and how they are treating it as liars.

Like I said, this forum has become toxic and disgusting.

Marcus Aurelius said:

---

It is not the flu. But dammit I am sick of it. Hence I have not been posting as much. The politics board has many sickening posters. I can't believe mods allow what some are posting there. Vilifying health care workers. As if we are seeking attention. Far from it for me.

---

Sorry it's turned out that way in this forum. But I would hope that the majority of folks do not feel like that. Many of us really enjoyed your insight into the disease.

The way this forum has played out and lack of moderation will likely lead to me giving up my paid sub to this site. If this is how staff wants to see things, I'm done.

Marcus Aurelius said:

---

It is not the flu. But dammit I am sick of it. Hence I have not been posting as much. The politics board has many sickening posters. I can't believe mods allow what some are posting there. Vilifying health care workers. As if we are seeking attention. Far from it for me.

---

While forum 16 is certainly a cesspool with it's fair share of conspiracy nuts and idiots, many of the comments posted in that thread are a natural backlash against the attention *horing that's been happening.

My job caries with it a higher probability of being shot at, in fact it's happened twice, yet I don't get on social media and post things like "I can't quarantine, I'm a nurse". I also don't go around suggesting that I'm risking my life just by showing up. Yes, healthcare workers carry a higher risks of contracting the virus. However, it's a virus that will likely kill less than 1% of those infected with the deaths skewed to the old and ill. If they're under 50 and healthy (as I'm sure the majority of healthcare workers are) then they probably have a higher risk of dying in a car crash on the way to work then dying of coronavirus.

That thread is also a blacklash against the sentiment that if you go out, or don't social distance then you hate healthcare workers and want to put them at risk. People are tired of not being able to live their lives and get angry when the risk to healthcare workers is overstated in order to shame them into submission.

Healthcare workers like any other profession shouldn't be vilified, but criticism in response to the attention seeking that SOME of them are doing is certainly appropriate.