Doctors thoughts on masks for the public

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atag
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6:25p, 7/7/20
AG
Yeah I really had no interest in the forum 16 tin foil hat opinions. To the actual doctors who responded on this post I thank you.
proudest member of the fightin texas aggie class of 2005.
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docaggie
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8:22p, 7/7/20
AG
https://voxeu.org/article/unmasked-effect-face-masks-spread-covid-19


Paper detailing what mandatory masks did to the outbreak in Germany.
It's not perfect, but it's impossible to do a blinded, controlled study for something like this.


Wear a mask.

Maybe you don't feel like you need to, but wear it anyway.

My hospital is about to be unable to care for anything except COVID patients. We're getting overwhelmed.

Wear a mask.
Class of 1998;
Husband of an Aggie, Class of 1999;
Father to future Class of 2029 and 2031
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Douph
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 12:50p, 7/11/20
Very well put
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$30,000 Millionaire
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1:06p, 7/11/20
AG
I think it is hilarious that internet experts are arguing with actual covid treating doctors like they know better. If a covid treating doctor tells me to wear a mask, I wear a mask. It's just a minor inconvenience.
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Ragoo
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1:30p, 7/11/20
AG
A mask is nothing more than a coalescing filter.

Anything you put in front of your mouth is going to coalesce droplets more efficiently than open air. Some types of filters are better than others, sure, but all are better than nothing.

It is basic separation science. I am just a dumb engineer though.

I have absolutely no issue with wearing masks if it would get people out and about living life instead of hunkered down in fear.

The fear mongering in this country is the absolute worst.
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I Am A Critic
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In reply to Ragoo • 3:33p, 7/11/20
Ragoo said:
The fear mongering in this country is the absolute worst.


It's nowhere near as bad as the stubborn virtue signaling.
Username checks out.
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eric76
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In reply to MouthBQ98 • 5:30p, 7/11/20
AG
MouthBQ98 said:
It will slow transmission rates which will protract the epidemic by months or even years but will keep hospitalizations manageable. The question is what are the opportunity costs of a protracted epidemic.
Also, it may reduce the viral load you get if someone else has it.

The woman I was exposed to ended up in the ICU for quite a while. I was wearing a mask at the time and had a very minimal case.

I don't know if wearing the mask helped minimize my case, but I'm sure happy that I didn't spend a month or so in the ICU like she did.
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Ragoo
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In reply to eric76 • 5:57p, 7/11/20
AG
eric76 said:
MouthBQ98 said:
It will slow transmission rates which will protract the epidemic by months or even years but will keep hospitalizations manageable. The question is what are the opportunity costs of a protracted epidemic.
Also, it may reduce the viral load you get if someone else has it.

The woman I was exposed to ended up in the ICU for quite a while. I was wearing a mask at the time and had a very minimal case.

I don't know if wearing the mask helped minimize my case, but I'm sure happy that I didn't spend a month or so in the ICU like she did.
i think of you get the virus in your body the viral losing is strictly based on how your body responds to attack it versus how quickly it can replicate itself.
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Aust Ag
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6:03p, 7/11/20
AG
I think it's also psychological. I know I don't want to do half the things I used to want to do just because the mask element makes things just not fun anymore. So I stay home. Heck, half the things I normally do on a weekend aren't even allowed anymore.
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oragator
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6:07p, 7/11/20
Trump in finally wore one today at Walter Reed. That small action will save lives.
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CMP-00-
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6:33p, 7/11/20
AG
It's absolutely incredible that masks are amongst the hottest items of debate in this country. MILLIONS of healthcare workers having been wearing masks EVERY DAY for more than a hundred years to diminish the spread of respiratory infections. We're arguing about the wrong things in this country and an epidemic of idiocy is compounding the death toll of this pandemic virus.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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eric76
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In reply to Ragoo • 6:35p, 7/11/20
AG
Ragoo said:
eric76 said:
MouthBQ98 said:
It will slow transmission rates which will protract the epidemic by months or even years but will keep hospitalizations manageable. The question is what are the opportunity costs of a protracted epidemic.
Also, it may reduce the viral load you get if someone else has it.

The woman I was exposed to ended up in the ICU for quite a while. I was wearing a mask at the time and had a very minimal case.

I don't know if wearing the mask helped minimize my case, but I'm sure happy that I didn't spend a month or so in the ICU like she did.
i think of you get the virus in your body the viral losing is strictly based on how your body responds to attack it versus how quickly it can replicate itself.
It's more complicated than that.

Only some fraction of the viral load will likely end up at a cell in which it can replicate. The higher the viral load, the more viruses will likely find cells in which to replicate. I don't know what the rate is for covid-19, but it can take several hours to a couple of days or so for a virus to replicate. It seems likely that a higher viral load will result in more viruses infecting cells and replicating before the body can ramp up its defenses.

I asked a question a couple of months ago about whether it makes much difference how a virus is brought into the body. I know that for some bacteria, it can make a big difference.

For example, with the yersinia pestis if you are bitten by an infected flea, you get bubonic plague with a mortality of around 50% or so while if you breathe it in you get pneumonic plague with a mortality rate of 90% of so. There is also septicemic plague with a mortality rate of nearly 100%. All from the same yersinia pestis. Thus, during the Black Plague, the first person in a household to get the plague had a better chance of surviving it than did the rest of the household.

Anthrax, too, can make a big difference with, I think, four different routes of infection. Hint: you'd much rather get it by contact with the skin than by breathing it in.

I once read that there are several routes of exposure to hantavirus with the most common by breathing in aerosolized mouse urine containing the virus, but I don't know if the mortality differs between them.

It's just speculation on my part, but for covid-19, if you deliver the virus directly to the cells where it can best infect and replicate, it seems reasonable that the infection will likely be much worse than if it is first delivered to cells that don't replicate it as well.
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Pumpkinhead
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In reply to CMP-00- • 6:39p, 7/11/20
AG
CMP-00- said:
It's absolutely incredible that masks are amongst the hottest items of debate in this country. MILLIONS of healthcare workers having been wearing masks EVERY DAY for more than a hundred years to diminish the spread of respiratory infections. We're arguing about the wrong things in this country and an epidemic of idiocy is compounding the death toll of this pandemic virus.


Even Masks seemingly getting caught up in the Politics spider web is certainly one of the most bizarre aspects of 2020.
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nai06
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In reply to agforlife97 • 6:53p, 7/11/20
AG
agforlife97 said:
texaggie90 said:


Ok, this convinces me that we should all wear masks the next time bubonic plague breaks out.
Nah not really, the bubonic plague isnt as big deal anymore thanks to antibiotics.
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eric76
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In reply to agforlife97 • 6:56p, 7/11/20
AG
agforlife97 said:
texaggie90 said:


Ok, this convinces me that we should all wear masks the next time bubonic plague breaks out.
You definitely don't want to breathe in yersinia pestis. You don't get bubonic plague -- you get pneumonic plague. About 90% mortality rate, I think.
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PDEMDHC
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9:48a, 7/12/20
AG
Good discussion. What's amazing to me is there still needs to be a need to discuss. Our own government lied on purpose to prevent a run on equipment back in February and admitted it last month. It still seems people go back and point to that lie.

I saw where a fellow Texan in their 30s died all due to going to a hoax party to see if it's real/get it from someone that tested positive.

Here we are 8 months into the first case in China and we have a large enough percentage of the population still thinking this is all a big hoax.... enough to prevent mask wearing from being effective.
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DadHammer
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In reply to Reveille • 10:09a, 7/12/20
AG
I agree, how can they not help? They just make sense , even if they don't help 80% what if they help 50%?

If they help at all shouldn't we use them?

That said, wide spread mask use is occurring in Houston where I live. I go to Kroger and did not see one person without a mask.
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Goose61
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1:34p, 7/12/20
AG
I never realized how dangerous wearing a mask was.

I guess that explains why my friends who worked in professions that required masks (medical, construction, chemical, etc.) were all dead by the age of 25.

Oh wait, no they weren't.

Good grief.

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Goose61
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1:38p, 7/12/20
AG
Also, if people are worried about mask efficiency, there are companies selling mask-making materials that are roughly equivalent to N95 standards:

http://filti.com
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ElephantRider
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In reply to Goose61 • 1:42p, 7/12/20
AG
Goose61 said:
I never realized how dangerous wearing a mask was.

I guess that explains why my friends who worked in professions that required masks (medical, construction, chemical, etc.) were all dead by the age of 25.

Oh wait, no they weren't.

Good grief.


If people really think that masks are dangerous, I have to wonder how they function on a day-to-day basis with that level of stupidity.
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to eric76 • 1:56p, 7/12/20
AG
eric76 said:
You definitely don't want to breathe in yersinia pestis. You don't get bubonic plague -- you get pneumonic plague. About 90% mortality rate, I think.


Imagine today that TexAgs nut jobs would be arguing about if the "IFR" was really 90% or not.
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ElephantRider
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In reply to Player To Be Named Later • 2:39p, 7/12/20
AG
Player To Be Named Later said:
eric76 said:
You definitely don't want to breathe in yersinia pestis. You don't get bubonic plague -- you get pneumonic plague. About 90% mortality rate, I think.


Imagine today that TexAgs nut jobs would be arguing about if the "IFR" was really 90% or not.

"We all have to die of something"
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Player To Be Named Later
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In reply to ElephantRider • 2:40p, 7/12/20
AG
But if you drank out of a tap in Iraq on deployment, you'd be immune.
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Hullabaloo91
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8:34p, 7/12/20
AG
Interesting that the New England Journal of Medicine says "...we know that wearing a mask outside of a health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372


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Charpie
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In reply to Hullabaloo91 • 8:57p, 7/12/20
AG
Some of y'all are hard headed.

Let me repeat. YES THEY WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM GETTING IT. IT WILL PREVENT YOU FROM
SPREADING IT.
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cone
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In reply to Charpie • 9:02p, 7/12/20
AG
maybe, we don't really know

still a small price to pay for a potentially huge return
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eric76
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In reply to Hullabaloo91 • 9:03p, 7/12/20
AG
Hullabaloo91 said:
Interesting that the New England Journal of Medicine says "...we know that wearing a mask outside of a health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

Quote:
Editor's Note: This article was published on April 1, 2020, at NEJM.org.

That's quite early in this outbreak. Also, it is not the result of any study of covid-19.

From http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent:
Quote:
One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.

But the strongest evidence in favor of masks come from studies of real-world scenarios. "The most important thing are the epidemiologic data," said Rutherford. Because it would be unethical to assign people to not wear a mask during a pandemic, the epidemiological evidence has come from so-called "experiments of nature."

A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.
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Ragoo
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In reply to cone • 9:05p, 7/12/20
AG
cone said:
maybe, we don't really know

still a small price to pay for a potentially huge return
do you understand coalescence?
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Hullabaloo91
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In reply to Charpie • 9:10p, 7/12/20
AG
Charpie said:
Some of y'all are hard headed.

Let me repeat. YES THEY WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM GETTING IT. IT WILL PREVENT YOU FROM
SPREADING IT.
I guess you didn't read the article: "Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."
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Hullabaloo91
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In reply to eric76 • 9:27p, 7/12/20
AG
Thank you for noting the publication date of the NEJM article and posting the link to the UCSF study. I hadn't seen that one. I'm surprised that the NEJM hasn't published an update if, in fact, their published opinion is no longer valid. They also decided to republish this opinion towards the end of May which could indicate that they still hold their original opinion to be valid.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this study: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25903751/ which is titled: A Cluster Randomised Trial of Cloth Masks Compared With Medical Masks in Healthcare Workers. The conclusion was:

...the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

This study was specific to health care workers, but if cloth masks could increase the risk of infection, then universal use of cloth masks should at least be scrutinized.
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bigtruckguy3500
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In reply to Hullabaloo91 • 9:30p, 7/12/20
Big difference between healthcare workers and the general public. Healthcare workers are repeatedly in close proximity to the faces of people with infectious disease, or at the very least in small, and relatively confined rooms, with most surfaces contaminated to some degree.

The general public, not so much.
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cone
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In reply to Ragoo • 10:25p, 7/12/20
AG
yes, I'm also an engineer
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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to Reveille • 10:44p, 7/12/20
AG
Reveille said:
Here is some information I posted I masks previously. Probably have written more but I was able to find these posts. I absolutely believe they work but we need over 80% of population to use them to truly be effective and dramatically effect the spread of this disease. We need to all be actively promoting the widespread use of masks. While N95 masks work the best the hamster study showed just using surgical masks reduced viral transmission up to 75%.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2719359698346970&id=1998386763777604

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2702236050059335&id=1998386763777604


This is correct
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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Infection_Ag11
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In reply to agforlife97 • 10:48p, 7/12/20
AG
agforlife97 said:
texaggie90 said:


Ok, this convinces me that we should all wear masks the next time bubonic plague breaks out.


The plague is only spread human to human in the pneumonic form, which is a minority of cases. Most cases are vector born from fleas. Moreover the plague is easily treated with antibiotics.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
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WesMaroon&White
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In reply to Charpie • 10:36a, 7/13/20
AG
If everyone wears one, then it will prevent you from getting it as nobody will be able to spread it effectively.
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