I listen to Lou Holtz talk about the football season. He said we knew people would die when we landed on the beach on D Day but we did it anyway.
Interesting perspective.
Interesting perspective.
Preprint: Herd Immunity Threshold of 10-20%
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Last: 5 yr ago by Keegan99
I don't think landing on the beach on d day was for our entertainment
Nvm
I agree with Lou Holts that they should play, but that was a stupid analogy.
Ragoo said:the trouble is that death will find us all. May be tomorrow may be 30 years or more.goodAg80 said:I have not expressed my opinion in this particular matter, so you are jumping to conclusions. I am open minded about what New Zealand is doing though. The have a unique circumstance so they can consider a unique solution. I was just saying they might be able to pull it off. They might not and then they will really regret it.Keegan99 said:
Economic vitality does not exist in a vacuum.
When the economy plummets, overall health declines and deaths follow.
In the US it's likely that the marginal increase in suicides alone will exceed COVID deaths for those under age 30.
So it's not an either/or proposition, and to act as if yours is the only compassionate course is simply wrong.
Other than originally saying we should just let this burn itself out, I have tried to advocate for a middle ground. I am against total lockdowns and I am against doing nothing. I don't think business trumps people dying, but I accept that preventing all deaths is unrealistic and overall harmful.
So the middle ground should be a lot closer to a free and open society that benefits 330,000,000 people versus a partial lockdown that may protect a couple hundred thousand.
I do think that sometimes people forget humans have a 100% mortality rate.
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
All you have in response to a serious question is a Trump hyped non-answer!Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
So which diseases, if any, resulted in so many people getting the disease that the disease was eradicated?
what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing tons of individual cold and flu strands are gone at this point?
I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
No. And they don't magically go away just because you have a vaccine either. Herd immunity means that there are enough immune individuals that the spread is naturally slowed way down (R<1).
But there are plenty of diseases that stop being pandemics and become endemic because enough people get them.
Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
I understand that there is nothing magic about it. Many other people don't seem to understand that, though -- we have seen plenty of people thinking it is a good thing if there is more spread of covid-19.BiochemAg97 said:eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
No. And they don't magically go away just because you have a vaccine either. Herd immunity means that there are enough immune individuals that the spread is naturally slowed way down (R<1).
But there are plenty of diseases that stop being pandemics and become endemic because enough people get them.
It took years of very hard work to get rid of smallpox with vaccinations. It helped that it is not a zoonosis. As hard as they have tried, polio still exists -- there are new cases every year -- and it is not a zoonosis, either.
That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Weird take
No one is saying herd immunity will eradicate the virus. Take a deep breath and sort yourself out.
eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
you have people looking at solving the problem two different ways.eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
1) says stop the spread at all costs to limit the loss of life
2) says the spread is inevitable so you do what is necessary to control the rate to no overburden the system while still allowing spread and not hinder economic activity. Because halting the economy only makes the situation worse.
eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
There's no point in attempting to limit the spread of the virus. Once the virus became widespread outside of China further spreading was inevitable. Every human on earth that is connected to modern society will eventually encounter the virus.
The original stated objective of the restrictions was to flatten the curve. The goal posts only moved to stopping the spread once people realized that hospital resources weren't going to be over used.
eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Bubonic plague ?
Bubonic plague is still among us. In the US, there are a handful of human cases each year.culdeus said:eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Bubonic plague ?
There are reasons why you shouldn't handle dead prairie dogs and other rodens.
Flattening the curve could have likely been done by people acting rationally. We didn't need to shut it down, but we did need rational people.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
There's no point in attempting to limit the spread of the virus. Once the virus became widespread outside of China further spreading was inevitable. Every human on earth that is connected to modern society will eventually encounter the virus.
The original stated objective of the restrictions was to flatten the curve. The goal posts only moved to stopping the spread once people realized that hospital resources weren't going to be over used.
culdeus said:eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Bubonic plague ?
While rare, people still get it. The disappearance of the plague had more to do with improvements in sanitation than any kind of herd immunity.
eric76 said:Flattening the curve could have likely been done by people acting rationally. We didn't need to shut it down, but we did need rational people.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
There's no point in attempting to limit the spread of the virus. Once the virus became widespread outside of China further spreading was inevitable. Every human on earth that is connected to modern society will eventually encounter the virus.
The original stated objective of the restrictions was to flatten the curve. The goal posts only moved to stopping the spread once people realized that hospital resources weren't going to be over used.
I'd say it's rational not to alter your life for a mild illness. Apparently others disagree.
Even with all the medical advances over the last century, this is hardly a mild illness.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Flattening the curve could have likely been done by people acting rationally. We didn't need to shut it down, but we did need rational people.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
There's no point in attempting to limit the spread of the virus. Once the virus became widespread outside of China further spreading was inevitable. Every human on earth that is connected to modern society will eventually encounter the virus.
The original stated objective of the restrictions was to flatten the curve. The goal posts only moved to stopping the spread once people realized that hospital resources weren't going to be over used.
I'd say it's rational not to alter your life for a mild illness. Apparently others disagree.
eric76 said:Even with all the medical advances over the last century, this is hardly a mild illness.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Flattening the curve could have likely been done by people acting rationally. We didn't need to shut it down, but we did need rational people.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
There's no point in attempting to limit the spread of the virus. Once the virus became widespread outside of China further spreading was inevitable. Every human on earth that is connected to modern society will eventually encounter the virus.
The original stated objective of the restrictions was to flatten the curve. The goal posts only moved to stopping the spread once people realized that hospital resources weren't going to be over used.
I'd say it's rational not to alter your life for a mild illness. Apparently others disagree.
I don't know what else to call something in which the worst case, most unrealistically high scenario only predicted .6% of the population would die and of those deaths 70% are over 70 years old.
In reality we will have far fewer deaths than the worst case scenario. For comparison the Spanish Flu killed 400,000 people in this country in just 3 months and the population then was 1/3 of what it is today.
Depends a lot on your age and your health. Over 60 you need to be careful, diabetic, hypertension due to weight you better be careful. The rest still have a very small chance of death, however it is inline with other viruses.
Easy come, Easy go
The first wave of the Spanish flu killed fewer than have died from covid-19. The death rates during the first wave were supposedly not much higher than what would have been expected without the flu.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Even with all the medical advances over the last century, this is hardly a mild illness.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Flattening the curve could have likely been done by people acting rationally. We didn't need to shut it down, but we did need rational people.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
There's no point in attempting to limit the spread of the virus. Once the virus became widespread outside of China further spreading was inevitable. Every human on earth that is connected to modern society will eventually encounter the virus.
The original stated objective of the restrictions was to flatten the curve. The goal posts only moved to stopping the spread once people realized that hospital resources weren't going to be over used.
I'd say it's rational not to alter your life for a mild illness. Apparently others disagree.
I don't know what else to call something in which the worst case, most unrealistically high scenario only predicted .6% of the population would die and of those deaths 70% are over 70 years old.
In reality we will have far fewer deaths than the worst case scenario. For comparison the Spanish Flu killed 400,000 people in this country in just 3 months and the population then was 1/3 of what it is today.
If covid-19 had hit in 1918 instead of the Spanish Flu, the death rates would have likely been far higher because of the medical care available then.
So if covid-19 is a mild disease, so was the Spanish Flu.
eric76 said:SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Even with all the medical advances over the last century, this is hardly a mild illness.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Flattening the curve could have likely been done by people acting rationally. We didn't need to shut it down, but we did need rational people.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:I think that those who want the government to take such actions know something that the rest of us didn't quite understand -- that far too many people are too irresponsible to act intelligently to try to limit the spread of the virus.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:That's a load of bull***** The hysterical are those who making arguments like that.Ragoo said:i think you are taking the "get rid of it" literally when it is meant figuratively. Herd immunity means hysteria goes away.eric76 said:Leprosy, aka Hansen's Disease, is still with us.Ragoo said:leprosy?eric76 said:I wasn't comparing it to smallpox. I was giving it as an example -- probably the only example -- of a disease that has been eradicated and it took a vaccine to do it.SirLurksALot said:eric76 said:Smallpox is considered to be eradicated from the planet as a result of vaccines and a lot of effort.Ragoo said:what does the president have to do with my reply? Smallpox existed for 470+ years. So what is your point?eric76 said:Talk about a Trump hyped non-answer.Ragoo said:who said eradicate?eric76 said:
Out of curiosity, has there ever been any disease that was eradicated by herd immunity absent vaccinations?
Herd immunity just means the spread slows way way down to the point that the media hype goes away.
Anyway, have you ever heard of smallpox? My understanding is that smallpox was eradicated as a result of vaccines.
Smallpox also existed in waves, what do you think caused a wave to end?
My question is simple -- has there been any diseases that were eradicated as a result of herd immunity that was not brought about by vaccines?
Covid doesn't compare to smallpox. Covid isn't going away even with a vaccine.
Are you suggesting that there is no such thing as hers immunity because no disease has been eradicated except thru a vaccine?
I still don't understand your point. Can you explain yourself better so we don't go around in pointless circles as typical a texags thread?
And I am not suggesting that there is no such thing as herd immunity. Where do you get these ideas?
A number of people are saying that it is a good thing for everyone to get the disease so that we can achieve herd immunity and get rid of it. That is one of the stupidest ideas I've ever heard of.
So I'm asking if we have ever gotten rid of a disease by herd immunity other than by vaccination? That's a pretty straightforward question and I can't see why you keep stumbling over it.
Nope. The hysterical are those that support forcing suffering on millions through government actions that aren't even guaranteed to actually prevent any deaths.
Originally, I thought that a shutdown was a stupid idea because we could deal with it by acting intelligently. While I still don't support shutdowns, I can understand why those who do support them think that way.
There's no point in attempting to limit the spread of the virus. Once the virus became widespread outside of China further spreading was inevitable. Every human on earth that is connected to modern society will eventually encounter the virus.
The original stated objective of the restrictions was to flatten the curve. The goal posts only moved to stopping the spread once people realized that hospital resources weren't going to be over used.
I'd say it's rational not to alter your life for a mild illness. Apparently others disagree.
I don't know what else to call something in which the worst case, most unrealistically high scenario only predicted .6% of the population would die and of those deaths 70% are over 70 years old.
In reality we will have far fewer deaths than the worst case scenario. For comparison the Spanish Flu killed 400,000 people in this country in just 3 months and the population then was 1/3 of what it is today.
If covid-19 had hit in 1918 instead of the Spanish Flu, the death rates would have likely been far higher because of the medical care available then.
This has no basis in reality. The Spanish flu killed hundreds of thousands of young healthy Individuals. Covid is overwhelming taking the old and the very sick.
The differences in the quality of medical care aren't super important as the vast majority of healthy people (Only about 2% of all patients are hospitalized) don't need any treatment to get over covid. Which is something typical of mild illnesses.
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