KidDoc said:

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Especially with kids under 10-12ish I am finding they appear to be worthless both with COVID as well as other common viral infections and strep. We are still seeing plenty of COVID negative ill young kids which is the same as any other fall.

In high risk situtations (doc visits, public transportation, large volume of people in a closed spaced for > 15 minutes) they are likely helpful. I do think far too many people think they are a mystic talisman that will guarentee they cannot get sick with anything.

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Well the folks posting above you clearly state there is zero scientific evidence that they provide any benefit at all. This is why there is much confusion as you are a doctor and I tend to go along with what my doc says as I trust him with my care and well being (he agrees with what you said with regards to benefits in certain scenarios). So the question becomes...which is it? They either provide benefit or they don't at all?

Our favorite pumpkin patch (all kinds of fun activities, all outdoors in a huge outdoor space) is requiring kids over 2 to wear masks everywhere (governor's orders). It is ridiculous.

Like the doc said, they probably provide some benefit in close tight indoor spaces. On a 2 year old playing outside, doesn't do a thing.

AggieSarah01 said:

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Like the doc said, they probably provide some benefit in close tight indoor spaces. On a 2 year old playing outside, doesn't do a thing.

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Yes, that is what the doc said however if you read up, there are many others who state they do nothing other than burden society....which is likely why there is still so much confusion about them.

dermdoc said:

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JesusQuintana said:

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KidDoc said:

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Especially with kids under 10-12ish I am finding they appear to be worthless both with COVID as well as other common viral infections and strep. We are still seeing plenty of COVID negative ill young kids which is the same as any other fall.

In high risk situtations (doc visits, public transportation, large volume of people in a closed spaced for > 15 minutes) they are likely helpful. I do think far too many people think they are a mystic talisman that will guarentee they cannot get sick with anything.

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Well the folks posting above you clearly state there is zero scientific evidence that they provide any benefit at all. This is why there is much confusion as you are a doctor and I tend to go along with what my doc says as I trust him with my care and well being (he agrees with what you said with regards to benefits in certain scenarios). So the question becomes...which is it? They either provide benefit or they don't at all?

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Hey I am a doc and one of "those people". There is zero scientific evidence masks do anything, but to be honest, until this happens it was not something a lot of studies were done on. Mayo Clinic has compiled an aggregate review of articles(not at Mayo itself) which seem to support what kid doc posted.

I think it makes sense in the areas kiddos mentioned, but outdoor use seems kind of dumb.

We flew to the Bama game last weekend in a completely full plane and everybody working masks which makes sense.

Forcing people to wear masks at the stadium seems like overkill.

And why no tailgates except for liability? Which as always what a lot of this is about.

Oh and both extremes, the mask Nazis and the no mask Nazis, are what cause the problem as usual.

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Well said. I was mostly pointing out the drastic differences in thoughts on this thread...which is a microcosm of the whole mask debate.

Matt Hooper said:

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Mask quality varies greatly.
Proper wearing of masks varies greatly.
Discipline to not constantly touch or adjust a mask varies greatly
Situational need for mask wearing varies greatly.

Conclusion - there is no one size fits all answer, but a little common sense can go a long way.

In a nursing home - wear a mask.
Walking from the door at a restaurant to your table - seriously, everyone knows this pointless.

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Same with walking in parking lots outside with masks, or driving alone in a car with the mask on. Luckily, we live in Texas where the mandates will be dropped soon enough and not be back. I do agree though, this idea of the "new normal" is a real threat to society as a whole. It should be termed a "temporary normal" as one doesn't need to be that invested in keeping these mandates and policies around for long as they are not reasonable to expect if we want to run an effective society.

What could possibly go wrong?

I don't know much about anything really, but I have spent 28 years in rag business; on the sewing, manufacturing, and textile side of things. In this whole deal I have made about 300K isolation gowns and about 15K masks. I am very close to the largest medical textile company in the world, used to work for them and recently made gowns for them. I also am very close to a company making a sheet ton of masks currently, quite a few for major brands that are going to athletes, both pro and NCAA. I can't speak to the N95 masks or the disposable ones.

I have seen screen shots of a report jointly issued by a big time US college that has Textile programs and an Asian PHD as well. This study was commissioned by a couple of textile companies and some apparel companies piggybacked on to it. They sought to find the best fabric to use for reusable masks and about the flow of air through them. It is confidential so it won't see the light of day in public.

Many of the masks being made out there right now, the re-usable cloth ones, are being made out of polyester single and double knit fabrics. These fabrics, kinda like what lots of folks call "dry fit", really do not breathe, they are solid fabrics and are not mesh like even though they are knit to look at it. They are meant to feel soft and slinky so that people buy overpriced shirts out of them. That fabric, and other 100% Poly fabric, is what is most often used for sublimation, which is what is being seen on all these decorated masks. Sublimation is the process of taking an ink, which has been turned into a solid and printed on a piece of paper, and then super heating it so that it turns into a gas and impregnates the fabric that it is adhered to. Think out about a super hot bed liner being sprayed onto a basket.

Thus, these masks are having, and this what the report said (again not medical, but Textile) a shielding effect as not much is getting through them, and conversely getting out of them either. Breath and flow of air is going up and around and about the mask.

The decoration on the mask basically further clogs it up and nothing gets through it. The study mentioned above basically said that not many cloth types were going to be all that effective as true filter media, as that was not these fabrics intended use. Many fabric types were easily clogged up with minute particles and dirt and such. In essence the report conclusion was that there were some decent fabrics out there for filtration, but the every day, run of the mill, easily available fabrics were not the best at any type of filtration. These fabric were better barriers, but what good is a barrier if in every breath air flows around and about it?

The neck gaiters that so many are using are made out of vertical knits, if you look closely at these they have an almost vertical, very thin, open line running about an inch or so all around, when these are stretched there is much more open space. I do not see how these could be considered filter like.

Unless everyone is using a standardized, protective mask I can't see how this will be effective. And that video of the Bengali's making masks is not too far from the reality of things in how things are being made right now.

Here is a study not looking at viral transmission but droplet dispersion by mask type. It is thought the majority of COVID and other virus is via droplet (aside from Measles). It confirms your gut feeling about gaiters.



https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/36/eabd3083

I would believe that cotton or mostly cotton would be the better of the fabric masks, as cotton breathes and would have some filtering properties.

I am not certain, but on that chart o would bet that the "Knitted-3" mask is one of the ones that are very popular.

As soon as a poly fabric is sublimated it is going to be a barrier, but when breathing in it, the breath and air is going to flow around the mask.

Strippers that wear masks during lap dances don't require condoms when you buy a bleejay.

So they are at least more effective than condoms

pootiessock said:

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Strippers that wear masks during lap dances don't require condoms when you buy a bleejay.

So they are at least more effective than condoms

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Username checks out.

cone said:

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as for real new normal talk, I will now always have a supply of masks in my house, probably for as long as I'm around

the worst part of the pandemic was being caught flat footed and access to cheap surgical masks was what I missed the most. I bought a good supply of N95s before they ran out, but not nearly enough to handle the full panic phase. And we had more N95s than surgical masks. That will change in my prep moving forward.

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I always have a supply of masks handy, but to wear on those occasions when I'm in a grain elevator because of the dust.

amercer said:

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The biggest cultural change it that it will be a long long time before I wake up feeling sick, eat a couple DayQuil, and trudge into the office.

I don't think I've taken a sick day in 10 years. That's just not going to fly anymore.

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When I had covid, I stayed at work and everyone else went home.

I'm thinking masks are going to be a popular item at Christmas.

Never know what to get your mom or dad at Christmas, how about a mask?






I have a feeling that for the remainder of our lifetime, whenever there is a spike in a virus or flu, cities or states are going to be quick to put in a mask ordinance.

DP