JesusQuintana said:

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andrago94 said:

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I'm not sure where they are getting the 90% effective against hospitalization. Based on the government's own published data it's about 40% right now. Would be nice if all news organizations would publish the data and calculations when they quote a statistic.

If you go to the links I provided, you will see about 70% of admissions over the last month in the 20+ age group were vaccinated. The population in same age group is 81% vaccinated. Running the standard vaccine effectiveness calculation on those percentages results in an effectiveness of 40% against hospitalization.

I can understand that there is probably a strong bit of politics weighing on what they disclose with so many people having such a strong vested personal interest in the success of the vaccines, but at some point they are going to have to face reality.

Bennett's move today against the unvaccinated in Israel makes no sense. He should be focused on booster shots, especially amongst those over 60 who are the most vulnerable. The US should also be looking ahead knowing that we trailed Israel by about 2 months on vaccine rollout. Preparations should be in the works to roll out a booster program, again starting with those over 60.

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What is the total # of admissions over the last month? The numbers you provided suggested that 200 total people in a country of 9 million have been hospitalized over the last two weeks. ~150 of those were fully vaccinated and in the 20+ age group. 150 out 4-5 million (don't know the number) is a very small amount of folks experiencing serious illness. What is the makeup of this group (old age, comorbidities, etc)? How does this compare to hospitalizations over a bad flu season? There's a lot of info needed to come out and say the vaccine is just not working.

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And on top of that, if the vaccine does have less-than-desired efficacy, that makes it even MORE important for people to be vaccinated.

PJYoung said:

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Israel covid data is a math trap.

As more people are vaccinated (and all else being equal), total hospitalizations will decrease but the *percent* of vaccinated hospitalizations will increase, not because the vaccines aren't working, but because there are more vaccinated people and fewer hospitalizations overall.

— Kristen Panthagani, PhD (@kmpanthagani) July 20, 2021

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To make this point really obvious, look at the scenario where 100% of the population is vaccinated -- there will be way fewer hospitalizations, but 100% of those few hospitalizations will be vaccinated people. So you can't only look at the percentage.

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This is why serology tests are so important. You can see both the S and N protein in antibody tests, then compare outcomes in vaccinated without natural immunity, vs vaccinated with natural immunity.

It's very obvious that the bureaucrats have decided to push vaccine on everyone, because the risk of unvacinated assuming they might have immunity is greater than any adverse outcome for naturally immune people getting boosted.

The real problem is all the people too stupid to see this and believing baseless claims like "only vaccines protect from Delta, not natural immunity". And the loss trust by intelligent citizens being lied to by their gov.