What do we think Toronto would give up to get Harley? They need puck moving and skating d men in the worst way possible. Just thinking of ways to shed salary to pay Robo.
*****Official Dallas Stars 2025-2026 Season Thread*****
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To that point, Harley is about to be a super expensive (like top 5-7 D $ league wide) D man who's playing on the 2nd pairing. Was this year an aberration or was that last year (when he was admittedly excellent when Miro was on the shelf)?
It's not like PP2, which he QBs amd brings a ton of value, gets any run at this point. Top 4 D is top 4, which everyone searches for, but could that money be better spent if he nets a blockbuster trade return? Is Bish ready to move up to the second pair?
It's not like PP2, which he QBs amd brings a ton of value, gets any run at this point. Top 4 D is top 4, which everyone searches for, but could that money be better spent if he nets a blockbuster trade return? Is Bish ready to move up to the second pair?
I think Harley's value is far from peak at the moment, so I really don't know what we'd get in return. He is only one year removed from looking worth that 10 million dollar deal so it's not tanked but definitely not what it was.
My opinion on Harley is that he sort of needs his own team to get the best out of him. When has he been the best version of himself? When he was the lead dog d-man and on the power play. So much this year I felt like he was pressing in order to show the world who he was or that he was as good as Miro, and it backfired.
Would the leafs be willing to trade Knies and someone like Easton Cowan or Noah Chadwick for Harley? Idk, but a guy like Knies is in the vein of what we need, and Harley is definitely a guy in the vein of what they need. And they're about to get a prospect who should come in and start for the big club on day 1.
My opinion on Harley is that he sort of needs his own team to get the best out of him. When has he been the best version of himself? When he was the lead dog d-man and on the power play. So much this year I felt like he was pressing in order to show the world who he was or that he was as good as Miro, and it backfired.
Would the leafs be willing to trade Knies and someone like Easton Cowan or Noah Chadwick for Harley? Idk, but a guy like Knies is in the vein of what we need, and Harley is definitely a guy in the vein of what they need. And they're about to get a prospect who should come in and start for the big club on day 1.
Harley has a full no trade clause in his contract so he's going nowhere.
I'm frustrated just like the rest of you guys but this year is a one-off in my opinion. Lots of Hockey and too many injuries this year to go along with the Olympics. They will make some tweaks and in Jim Nill I trust. We will be back in the Conference Finals , at least, next year.
I'm frustrated just like the rest of you guys but this year is a one-off in my opinion. Lots of Hockey and too many injuries this year to go along with the Olympics. They will make some tweaks and in Jim Nill I trust. We will be back in the Conference Finals , at least, next year.
Danny Vermin said:
The majority of our team has played a ton Hockey for the last three years. Along with a few key injuries, they were simply out of gas. A long offseason, relatively, should help this team be ready for next season along with a few tweaks as usual. Teams that play well into the playoffs for a few years in a row tend to have an ending like we had. I'm extremely disappointed but not really surprised how it ended.
Are you surprised that Carolina, which has played at least as much and probably more hockey in the same time frame (2nd rounds in '21, 22, and 24; Conf finals in 23 and 25) is undefeated in the playoffs this year? Only 1 of their years they lost in the second round went less than 6 games, so it wasn't like they lucked out in the first round or played substantially less time even if they lost a round earlier.
What was different about them?
Are you surprised that the Dallas Stars have played the most games in the NHL ( playoffs and regular ) since 2020? Probably not. They have had the same core for most of it. If they bow out early next year, then make some major changes.
Florida was a wagon but we've played the arguably the 4 best teams in hockey, repeatedly, over those years.
Vegas, again and again and again, Edmonton. Jets (last year), wild (this year), and oh yeah. Fkin Colorado every ******* year.
Not to mention in the regular season too.
We didn't just have injuries, we had serious injuries to our best players. Miro, Hintz, Moose, seggy done for the year.
Yeah Robo played great this year and Wyatt as well on the PP, but we weren't going to go deep at all with a hurt miro, moose and Hintz. Moose and Hintz are our 5on5 juice. It was obvious that was severely lacking.
Vegas, again and again and again, Edmonton. Jets (last year), wild (this year), and oh yeah. Fkin Colorado every ******* year.
Not to mention in the regular season too.
We didn't just have injuries, we had serious injuries to our best players. Miro, Hintz, Moose, seggy done for the year.
Yeah Robo played great this year and Wyatt as well on the PP, but we weren't going to go deep at all with a hurt miro, moose and Hintz. Moose and Hintz are our 5on5 juice. It was obvious that was severely lacking.
Harley's NMC doesn't become active until 2029.
And I get the injuries and the amount of hockey we've played being part of the equation for this season ending early. They're legitimate reasons. I just think we still don't play enough of the correct style of hockey to win a cup, and most of that is down to the players on the team after four years of the same thing more or less.
And I get the injuries and the amount of hockey we've played being part of the equation for this season ending early. They're legitimate reasons. I just think we still don't play enough of the correct style of hockey to win a cup, and most of that is down to the players on the team after four years of the same thing more or less.
Danny Vermin said:
Are you surprised that the Dallas Stars have played the most games in the NHL ( playoffs and regular ) since 2020? Probably not. They have had the same core for most of it. If they bow out early next year, then make some major changes.
I would be very surprised SINCE IT ISN'T TRUE! Florida has far more games -- something like 23 more. (You said SINCE 2020).
Now, if you including the 2019-2020 season, which I don't know why you would since it stretched out almost a year due to Covid (suspended 4.5 months without games), you can engineer the Stars playing in 3 more games due to the Round Robin nonsense. The first game they played in for the RR occurred almost 2 months prior to the last game in the finals. Plus, I'd like to know how many players from that team are still here.
Speaking of nonsense, this whole games played over several years stuff is exactly that. The Stars were performing fine during the last month of the regular season. Did they just suddenly tire out the SECOND the first round of the playoffs started? Since the beginning of March, in their last 23 games of the season, they averaged 3.43 goals per game. In their playoff loss, they averaged almost a goal less (2.5). That may have been the result of a lot of things, but it was NOT the result of tiring out due to playing a bunch of games since 2020.
Mental gymnastics to engineer excuses can be really interesting.
Typical Dewsh Lawyer. Wasn't that hard to look up.
Tired legs is a real thing. It's not that hard to believe. And just because they finished the regular season strong doesn't mean that it won't eventually catch up with you.
91AggieLawyer said:Danny Vermin said:
Are you surprised that the Dallas Stars have played the most games in the NHL ( playoffs and regular ) since 2020? Probably not. They have had the same core for most of it. If they bow out early next year, then make some major changes.
I would be very surprised SINCE IT ISN'T TRUE! Florida has far more games -- something like 23 more. (You said SINCE 2020).
Now, if you including the 2019-2020 season, which I don't know why you would since it stretched out almost a year due to Covid (suspended 4.5 months without games), you can engineer the Stars playing in 3 more games due to the Round Robin nonsense. The first game they played in for the RR occurred almost 2 months prior to the last game in the finals. Plus, I'd like to know how many players from that team are still here.
Speaking of nonsense, this whole games played over several years stuff is exactly that. The Stars were performing fine during the last month of the regular season. Did they just suddenly tire out the SECOND the first round of the playoffs started? Since the beginning of March, in their last 23 games of the season, they averaged 3.43 goals per game. In their playoff loss, they averaged almost a goal less (2.5). That may have been the result of a lot of things, but it was NOT the result of tiring out due to playing a bunch of games since 2020.
Mental gymnastics to engineer excuses can be really interesting.
Well said. The idea that games played 7 seasons ago is relevant defies logic & common sense.
In Jim Nill's postmortem presser that he does, he even stated that with about three weeks to go in the regular season, he thought we dipped in performance again and never got it going again. When you include that with our consistent game 1 issues we've had for years now, across multiple coaches, I think that points to your players and roster.
These are professional athletes with the best care in the world; the tired legs thing is overblown. About 30% of the roster from 2020 remains today.
Going back to 2020 is too large of a sample size and dilutes the conclusion which is that this team has played, and won, a ton of games recently. The more relevant timeframe is 390 games played since 2022-2023. Only Florida and Edmonton have played more, and guess where all three are at the moment? The team from 22-23 is largely the same as now, with a few additions that have also played a **** ton of hockey (ie Rantanen).
It may seem like "excuse making" to a certain segment of fan, but facts are facts. More games equals more fatigue equals higher injury potential. We got bit hard by that this year. Combine that with a brutal 1st round matchup and you get what we got. This roster has construction concerns that need to be addressed, and I wonder about it's ultimate ceiling - but this is still a very good team as is that when healthy and with a longer offseason should be primed as a major contender next year.
It may seem like "excuse making" to a certain segment of fan, but facts are facts. More games equals more fatigue equals higher injury potential. We got bit hard by that this year. Combine that with a brutal 1st round matchup and you get what we got. This roster has construction concerns that need to be addressed, and I wonder about it's ultimate ceiling - but this is still a very good team as is that when healthy and with a longer offseason should be primed as a major contender next year.
I'll keep rooting for Logan thank you very much.
Wild are going to get one. Gentlemen's sweep?
If this ends in an AAC renovation and extends both teams for another 10-20 years, that is the best outcome IMO. It would be such a waste for these teams to build 2 new arenas. That's a good building and the development around it finally caught up. These things cannot be allowed to become carcasses that get disposed of every 25 years at the massive expense of local taxpayers.
DannyDuberstein said:
If this ends in an AAC renovation and extends both teams for another 10-20 years, that is the best outcome IMO. It would be such a waste for these teams to build 2 new arenas. That's a good building and the development around it finally caught up. These things cannot be allowed to become carcasses that get disposed of every 25 years at the massive expense of local taxpayers.
Do we think that is a possible outcome at this point? Feels like the Mavs are gonna use this to leverage their way out of AAC and try to force the stars hand to stay maybe? My understanding of the original fight was the Mavs ownership tried to work with the city to trick stars into staying at aac while Mavs did short term renewal while they built out their fancy new arena on the site of city hall.
Don't trust the Adelsons to have any sort of happy ending on this deal as they've shown to be very shady
I feel like the Adelsons have decided to buy more time for gambling legality to play out. I also think that they burned themselves so badly on the Luka deal that anything needing taxpayer support isn't getting approval for 5+ years. So between that and construction time, I could see 10-15+ years of AAC usage
And while the greed of a multi-use venue is attractive, how many can support it? I could see Dallas trying to keep AAC in the mix with some usage out of it, so you go from 1 to 3 (at least 2) in that 20k range. Then there is Dickie's which holds 14k, Dos Equis/Starplex holds 20k, Toyota holds 8k, GILF up to 40k, Jerryworld up to 85k.
And while the greed of a multi-use venue is attractive, how many can support it? I could see Dallas trying to keep AAC in the mix with some usage out of it, so you go from 1 to 3 (at least 2) in that 20k range. Then there is Dickie's which holds 14k, Dos Equis/Starplex holds 20k, Toyota holds 8k, GILF up to 40k, Jerryworld up to 85k.
This whole situation is tough. I get the sense the Stars will do just about anything to move to north Dallas, because that is where hockey is strongest. Also there's benefits to a hockey only arena. The Mavs give me the same feeling of just wanting to do their own thing and be in their own building. So it's not all just about renovating AAC even though from a city perspective that is clearly the best solution.
I'm sure both would love their own building as long as someone else is paying enough of the tab to make the math work. I think it's only a tough situation because they both made it that way.
If the Stars wanted their HQ elsewhere, I am betting they could have addressed that clause 20+ years ago - probably have to make some minor concessions in return, but easier in a brand new stadium when everyone is happy than now. And tbh, there was some decent foresight from the Mavs/city in requiring that clause. You let them get friendly with others, the more you risk them wanting to bail on what is still a good facility. That said, I'm also sure this current Mavs ownership could play ball as a better partner too. I'm not really sure they know what they want at this point with gambling nowhere in sight.
If the Stars wanted their HQ elsewhere, I am betting they could have addressed that clause 20+ years ago - probably have to make some minor concessions in return, but easier in a brand new stadium when everyone is happy than now. And tbh, there was some decent foresight from the Mavs/city in requiring that clause. You let them get friendly with others, the more you risk them wanting to bail on what is still a good facility. That said, I'm also sure this current Mavs ownership could play ball as a better partner too. I'm not really sure they know what they want at this point with gambling nowhere in sight.
The bell centre looks ****ing nuts. Bucket list experience
What's the rule there? Penalty shot called vs an empty net means that there couldn't be a goalie for the actual penalty shot, so they get awarded a goal automatically?
Don't have sound where we're watching so they may have explained it on the broadcast.
Don't have sound where we're watching so they may have explained it on the broadcast.
dvldog said:
What's the rule there? Penalty shot called vs an empty net means that there couldn't be a goalie for the actual penalty shot, so they get awarded a goal automatically?
Don't have sound where we're watching so they may have explained it on the broadcast.
Not watching, but what you described is exactly the rule. A goal can be awarded on a penalty that is committed from a behind on a player who otherwise had a breakaway against an open net.
Thanks!
There was some discussion about teams starting a backup goalie in a playoff series. Colorado starts Blackwood in goal instead of Wedgewood tonight and gets a big W. In the east, the Canes and Sabres have mixed it up a bit too.
GrapevineAg said:
There was some discussion about teams starting a backup goalie in a playoff series. Colorado starts Blackwood I goal instead of Wedgewood tonight and gets a big W. In the east, the Canes and Sabres have mixed it up a bit too.
I was thinking about that because someone was a ***** to me for suggesting putting in Desmith. Seems like a lot of teams are letting primary goaltenders get rest.
I think I said let otter get a night off and they said you know they get nights off between games and don't actually play every night, right?
GrapevineAg said:
There was some discussion about teams starting a backup goalie in a playoff series. Colorado starts Blackwood I goal instead of Wedgewood tonight and gets a big W. In the east, the Canes and Sabres have mixed it up a bit too.
I like your observation very much, GrapevineAg. In many respects, the net minder position has not evolved enough to give two excellent goalies the alotted playing time that NFL RB's are now accustomed to in a dual-split workload.
I stand by my comment on the NHL playoff thread (General Forum) that modern day net minders have been taught to hug the pipes at any and all costs. They have no skating abilities around their own Trapezoids and their puck passing skills are atrocious.
Give me a Freaking goalie that can pass and skate around, bump the opposition away from his net, and I'll get everyone here a Stanley Cup. Nut up netminders and skate around your crease for heaven's sake. Pass the puck with authority and tilt the ice in your favor.
FTAco07 said:
Go ahead and point all the examples of playoff series where a backup goalie gets one, let alone two, starts.
Oetter wasn't good this series and I'm not debating that, but just throwing out a team should play their backup a couple of games just isn't how it works.
Here he/she/they is
Both teams playing tonight that got further than us have played back up goalies
T dizl televizl said:FTAco07 said:
Go ahead and point all the examples of playoff series where a backup goalie gets one, let alone two, starts.
Oetter wasn't good this series and I'm not debating that, but just throwing out a team should play their backup a couple of games just isn't how it works.
Here he/she/they is
Both teams playing tonight that got further than us have played back up goalies
FIFY
T dizl televizl said:FTAco07 said:
Go ahead and point all the examples of playoff series where a backup goalie gets one, let alone two, starts.
Oetter wasn't good this series and I'm not debating that, but just throwing out a team should play their backup a couple of games just isn't how it works.
Here he/she/they is
Both teams playing tonight that got further than us have played back up goalies
Apples and oranges.
Oetter is the clear number 1 who Dallas believes to be their franchise goaltender. DeSmith is a career backup who no team in the league wants to count on in the playoffs.
Colorado has split the starts almost equally all year between Wedgewood and Blackwood. Blackwood was the intended starter, but they started playing Wedgewood more as he was having a career year. It was expected that Colorado would play both goaltenders at some point in the playoffs.
Minnesota started playing Wallstedt more as the season went along. Gustavsson was the starter at the beginning of the year. They went to Wallstedt for the playoffs because they thought he was playing better at the end of the year. He's their young goaltender who they are wanting to take over the job eventually. Again, it's not a surprise that Minnesota would play both goaltenders.
Teams who have a clear number one goalie do not switch to backups in the playoffs unless something has gone very badly.
Teams that have more of a goaltender tandem will switch based on the coaches gut and who has the hot hand.
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